New Zen microarchitecture details

[deasd]

The SIMD part is often calling the floating point part but that is a misnomer.

Yes you got it right. I already call it 'FPU performance' but not 'floating point performance', in an arch it's still call FPU or SIMD unit, it's easy to misread.

There isn't a big difference because most software is simply not using AVX2 heavily, SIMD is not really easily applicable terribly broadly.

Not to mentioned AVX, there's very few chance to ultilize long SIMD in daily task, 90% of them don't. But 90% of benchmark suite ultilize it.

 

[Exophase]

Yes you got it right. I already call it 'FPU performance' but not 'floating point performance', in an arch it's still call FPU or SIMD unit, it's easy to misread.

Got it, so you're saying that they improved the peak vector performance a lot but didn't improve scalar performance much. I can agree with that.

Not to mentioned AVX, there's very few chance to ultilize long SIMD in daily task, 90% of them don't. But 90% of benchmark suite ultilize it.

I would guess the utilization isn't really that high for benchmarks either.

 

[Jacky60]

This optimism about an AMD CPU launch with new architecture is very sweet and endearing but I have zero faith they will launch anything decent. They used to under promise and over deliver but for a decade its been the other way around. Lately this philosophy has crept into their GPU launches.

 

[JDG1980]

This optimism about an AMD CPU launch with new architecture is very sweet and endearing but I have zero faith they will launch anything decent.

So, you don't think a new clean-sheet design from AMD can match the IPC of Intel's Sandy Bridge, which was released way back in 2011? That's beyond pessimism.

 

[coercitiv]

This optimism about an AMD CPU launch with new architecture is very sweet and endearing but I have zero faith they will launch anything decent. They used to under promise and over deliver but for a decade its been the other way around. Lately this philosophy has crept into their GPU launches.

So you have weighed and measured the new Zen arch and found it wanting? Or is just... faith?

 

[itsmydamnation]

This optimism about an AMD CPU launch with new architecture is very sweet and endearing but I have zero faith they will launch anything decent. They used to under promise and over deliver but for a decade its been the other way around. Lately this philosophy has crept into their GPU launches.

try this:

its easy to see why bulldozer failed at "IPC" long pipeline, poor cache latency, narrow execution resources. So everyone making "IPC" guesses list your actual technical reasons why, not just cuz AMD.

 

[FlanK3r]

This optimism about an AMD CPU launch with new architecture is very sweet and endearing but I have zero faith they will launch anything decent. They used to under promise and over deliver but for a decade its been the other way around. Lately this philosophy has crept into their GPU launches.

I think, this optimism is dangerous...No real. How many people know reality about increase of CPUs? No much people there. Its not real to do with limited money the huge jump in performance. Its not true, Intel is lazy, Intel doing "the best" what they can. But all limiots are architecture and software.
So Im more realistic, performance of Zen could be not bad, but not as Intel CPUs (only in multithread) If the chip are 95W, seems against LGA1151 focused. I thinkik, we will see 8 cores, but in different way (no 16 threads).

 

[itsmydamnation]

AMD already said it has SMT, there is no point creating such a wide core as ZEN without SMT. a ZEN core is wider than a CON core module ( in terms of execution pipes) ........

 

[hojnikb]

Any word on when AM4 board will start popping up ?

And will this be true SoC platform like AM1 (no onboard chipset) or will they incorporate chipsets like intel does (even though cpus are already SoC).

I see no reason why not, since carrizo is already true SoC.

 

[coercitiv]

I thinkik, we will see 8 cores, but in different way (no 16 threads).

You don't need to guess on this matter, AMD officially announced Zen is a SMT design on their 2015 Financial Analyst Day. (in Mark Papermaster's presentation)

See the slide bellow, emphasis is mine.

 

[Vortex6700]

Fines bigger than 1 billion dollars showed us the scale of the operation. Next time, if there ever is a next time, they won't have the luxury of maintaining appearances: either they fight through pricing, or they lose market share.

I don't see how you can be so confident. Intel was fined less than 10% of the cost of their scheme. There is absolutely no reason to assume they won't do it again and will stoop to the dirty task of price competition.

 

[frozentundra123456]

What does bashing Intel for past misdeeds and projecting similar behavior in the future have to do with Zen microarchitecture???

 

[Vortex6700]

What does bashing Intel for past misdeeds and projecting similar behavior in the future have to do with Zen microarchitecture???

1. These "misdeeds" intentionally caused unrecoverable damage to x86.

2. These "misdeeds" historically happen when a company releases something competitive with intel (386, athlon)

3. These "misdeeds" make the arguement of a competitive product moot.

4. Between the amd and intel bashing, the topic of uarch died pages ago.

 

[AtenRa]

AMD already said it has SMT, there is no point creating such a wide core as ZEN without SMT. a ZEN core is wider than a CON core module ( in terms of execution pipes) ........

Not for the Integer,

BD Module has 4x Integer ALUs + 4x AGUs

ZEN Core has 4x Integer ALUs + 2x AGUs.

 

[AtenRa]

Any word on when AM4 board will start popping up ?

And will this be true SoC platform like AM1 (no onboard chipset) or will they incorporate chipsets like intel does (even though cpus are already SoC).

I see no reason why not, since carrizo is already true SoC.

I believe May/June will have the AM4 release.

There are chipsets as well, so we could see boards only for SoCs (cheaper models) and boards with Chipsets for more features.

 

[coercitiv]

I don't see how you can be so confident. Intel was fined less than 10% of the cost of their scheme. There is absolutely no reason to assume they won't do it again and will stoop to the dirty task of price competition.

Because nowadays is even harder to hide such practices. What Intel did recently in the mobile market was a lot more transparent and afaik legal. According to you there was absolutely no reason for Intel to not play dirty in the mobile sector, yet they kept it within limits. If anything, we saw Qualcomm tempted by the devil, getting fined $1 Billion in China and facing anti competitive charges in EU.

What does bashing Intel for past misdeeds and projecting similar behavior in the future have to do with Zen microarchitecture???

I for one am not bashing Intel, actually my assumption is they will play fair and square. Depending on the level of competition we are likely to be thrown two types of snacks or one placebo:

1. two extra cores for no co$t cuz we good doggies
2. lower prices in the long run cuz AMD must bleed
3. no snack$ cuz AMD under delivered, again

 

[Erenhardt]

I'm hearing no one cares about PC. Why do you think they will fight against each other in PC market space if they do not care about it?

 

[Phynaz]

you guys are gonna go make me find it D: .......

Yes.

 

[coercitiv]

I'm hearing no one cares about PC. Why do you think they will fight against each other in PC market space if they do not care about it?

"What is PC worth?" the man asked.
"Nothing." the chipmaker replied. He then walked away a few steps, turned back, raised his fists into the air and continued with a big grin on his face "Everything!"

Why do you think Apple likes to market their new CPUs as "desktop class"? If anything, when they succeed reaching that performance goal, one could also call them "PC class"

PC is no longer a form factor. It's a performance target. If you have the most powerful and scalable arch, you get the keys to the kingdom.

 

[Eric1987]

How do you guys know so much about CPU's? School? I just learn the stuff via these forums and I still feel lost. I know a lot about networking because of school.

 

[scannall]

I for one am not bashing Intel, actually my assumption is they will play fair and square. Depending on the level of competition we are likely to be thrown two types of snacks or one placebo:

1. two extra cores for no co$t cuz we good doggies
2. lower prices in the long run cuz AMD must bleed
3. no snack$ cuz AMD under delivered, again

If AMD were to come out with a home run product, and triple their market Intel would still not feel the need to change anything. It would cost more to their bottom line to get into a price war than it would to just ignore AMD altogether.

 

[Vortex6700]

If AMD were to come out with a home run product, and triple their market Intel would still not feel the need to change anything. It would cost more to their bottom line to get into a price war than it would to just ignore AMD altogether.

Past performance would indicate otherwise. Though what they would change would have little to do with product or consumer pricing.

I agree that a trust participating in a price war is unlikely.

 

[Dresdenboy]

PC is no longer a form factor. It's a performance target. If you have the most powerful and scalable arch, you get the keys to the kingdom.

As all the discussed form factors are personal computers, I'd suggest: stationary, portable, mobile.

 

[coercitiv]

I agree that a trust participating in a price war is unlikely.

Well, each with their own opinion I guess. AMD officials are probably praying for this scenario.

 

[Vortex6700]

Well, each with their own opinion I guess. AMD officials are probably praying for this scenario.

I would love to be proven wrong.