New Zen microarchitecture details

[Sven_eng]

Since when did memory speed matter in anything except synthetics or integrated graphics...

If memory speed and PCIe lanes are the worst things about Ryzen it's clearly already a winner.

 

[Spartak]

with X300 you have directly from the CPU
16x PCIe Gen 3.0 for graphics
4x PCIe Gen 3.0 NVMe
4x PCIe Gen 3.0
+ 6 USB 3.0

That means we can have 4x PCIe Gen 3.0 for NVMe M2.0/U2.0 drive + 6-8x SATA-6 ports

I believe this is enough for everyone for a mini-iTX build. You can even build a mini SFF low power 8C 16T server box with that I/O.

Huh? The slides clearly show you have only 4 USB 3.0 directly from the CPU and none on the X300. And it's 2xSATA + 2xNVMe (or 4xNVMe on the 8C/16T, not on the APU's), that's it.

 

[jpiniero]

Since when did memory speed matter in anything except synthetics or integrated graphics...

If memory speed and PCIe lanes are the worst things about Ryzen it's clearly already a winner.

Some games benefit pretty substantially by having faster memory... Fallout 4 for instance. It's pretty hit or miss though.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Apparently its around 4 billion a year ( at intels current prices).

Huh???

Since when did memory speed matter in anything except synthetics or integrated graphics...

If memory speed and PCIe lanes are the worst things about Ryzen it's clearly already a winner.

There are plenty of tests that show faster memory improves Skylake performance. Whether it matters for Zen or not, well, who knows?

 

[jpiniero]

There are plenty of tests that show faster memory improves Skylake performance.

It's not completely a Skylake thing though, just that speeds are higher with DDR4 so the improvement gets amplified a bit.

 

[Sven_eng]

There are plenty of tests that show faster memory improves Skylake performance. Whether it matters for Zen or not, well, who knows?

Skylake only has 8MB cache so it needs faster memory. Zen probably doesn't need it due to the 20MB cache.

 

[Doom2pro]

Huh? The slides clearly show you have only 4 USB 3.0 directly from the CPU and none on the X300. And it's 2xSATA + 2xNVMe (or 4xNVMe on the 8C/16T, not on the APU's), that's it.

I think the 3.1 Gen 2 support is coming from an Asmedia part (the one we all heard about months ago with the signal integrity/buffer chip issues) and that part probably hangs off PCIe from the chipset?

 

[jpiniero]

Skylake only has 8MB cache so it needs faster memory. Zen probably doesn't need it due to the 20MB cache.

It's possible. Most of the memory scaling articles I've seen have specifically focused on Skylake, so I haven't seen any on Broadwell-E for instance.

 

[itsmydamnation]

It's possible. Most of the memory scaling articles I've seen have specifically focused on Skylake, so I haven't seen any on Broadwell-E for instance.

You always have cache miss's, low latency memory always helps.
The amount of help will vary workload to workload, traditionally games really like lowest possible memory latency.

 

[AtenRa]

Huh? The slides clearly show you have only 4 USB 3.0 directly from the CPU and none on the X300. And it's 2xSATA + 2xNVMe (or 4xNVMe on the 8C/16T, not on the APU's), that's it.

Yes correct according to this slide its 4x USB 3.1

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Yes correct according to this slide its 4x USB 3.1

USB 3.0 is the same as USB 3.1 Gen 1. He wanted the CPU to have USB 3.1 Gen 2, which it doesn't. The standard is so new that Ryzen was probably set in stone when Gen 2 arrived.

By the way, 3.1 Gen 1/3.1 Gen 2 are the most stupid names I have seen in technology standards for a long time. Why not just bump the number up one, instead of adding a stupid generation identifier?

 

[CatMerc]

Some reports from CES about ddr4 performance is a bit worriesome. Apparently it is behind intels offerings. Direct quote is:

We’ve run DDR4 memory kits on the new Intel Z270 platform with Kaby Lake processors like the Intel Core i7-7770K processor at speeds of up to 4.0 GHz and we saw companies hitting 4.5 GHz clock speeds on DDR4 memory kits with extreme overclocking techniques. Multiple sources wishing to remain anonymous spoke with us at CES 2017 and said that DDR4 support on Ryzen boards is no where near as good and that now and that DDR4-2400 is a good all around kit for these processors.


Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryzen-learned-ces-2017_190305#Z2uLrCwWcPUHJGMU.99

Eh, that would just be a gen behind Intel. Skylake and Z170 don't tend to do 4GHz lol

 

[itsmydamnation]

That may well be the case, but why would this be of any worry if Ryzen has the goods, namely IPC(+SMT) and clocks? I have heard that up to and including 3Ghz was achievable as of December, but like I said this is not that big of a deal. People who want absolute best ST performance will go with KL and its crazy 5Ghz OC anyway, so who cares?

The people who want general performance shouldn't run at the highest memory clock for highest memory clock sake. They should run at the best combination of timings and clock to deliver the lowest access times. Even with a memory clock boundary hopefully Zen can still do that.

 

[Spartak]

USB 3.0 is the same as USB 3.1 Gen 1. He wanted the CPU to have USB 3.1 Gen 2, which it doesn't. The standard is so new that Ryzen was probably set in stone when Gen 2 arrived.

By the way, 3.1 Gen 1/3.1 Gen 2 are the most stupid names I have seen in technology standards for a long time. Why not just bump the number up one, instead of adding a stupid generation identifier?

Nah I don't care about USB 3.1, 3.0* is fast enough for me . What I do care about is having six ports. But there arent enough SATA ports either and no PCIe3.0 x4. So X300 simply doesn't cut it for me.

*I refuse to call it 3.1 gen 1 as well

 

[itsmydamnation]

Nah I don't care about USB 3.1, 3.0* is fast enough for me . What I do care about is having six ports. But there arent enough SATA ports either and no PCIe3.0 x4. So X300 simply doesn't cut it for me.

*I refuse to call it 3.1 gen 1 as well

X300 will be about small form factors. If raven ridge updates to usb 3.1 gen2 then X300 has the perfect I/O spec for a laptop without needing a chipset. AMD has a balancing act given its going with one platform, i think they strike a pretty good balance.

 

[IEC]

Some reports from CES about ddr4 performance is a bit worriesome. Apparently it is behind intels offerings. Direct quote is:

We’ve run DDR4 memory kits on the new Intel Z270 platform with Kaby Lake processors like the Intel Core i7-7770K processor at speeds of up to 4.0 GHz and we saw companies hitting 4.5 GHz clock speeds on DDR4 memory kits with extreme overclocking techniques. Multiple sources wishing to remain anonymous spoke with us at CES 2017 and said that DDR4 support on Ryzen boards is no where near as good and that now and that DDR4-2400 is a good all around kit for these processors.

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ryzen-learned-ces-2017_190305#Z2uLrCwWcPUHJGMU.99

Considering the rather extreme price of DDR4 kits capable of above 4GHz clockspeeds, I don't really consider it much of a negative.

Keep in mind also that low latency DDR4-2400 through DDR4-3200 is substantially cheaper and in most applications you will have already hit diminishing returns within that range.

We will have to see what Zen is capable of on release. Hopefully at least one reviewer addresses memory clockspeed scaling.

 

[majord]

@majord can you add the X99 platform to that image?

Done, though decided to break the high end chipsets out on there own

(Click for full size)

 

[PhonakV30]

So what is Max Speed of DDR4 on X370?

 

[CentroX]

So what is Max Speed of DDR4 on X370?

Nobody knows.

 

[CentroX]

I heard that intel has a conference in feb. I hope ryzen launches before it.

 

[realibrad]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW | AMD’s Robert Hallock Spills The Beans on Ryzen - RedGamingTech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKttIZ3fZjM

This makes me feel that Zen will trade blows but not beat Intel. The guy said Ryzen is the competitive processor people have been waiting for. As always we will have to wait, but "competitive" leads me to believe that have not surpassed Intel. Good enough likely for me to buy but likely not enough to get people to buy if they have a current gen Intel system.

Going to be fun to see benchmarks.

 

[lopri]

I am guessing a huge integer boost with a relatively moderate floating-point improvement. Which will make the chip strong in desktops/severs, not as strong in HPC workloads.

BTW, if Zen's IPC and Perf/W are as good as Skylake/Kaby Lake, while packing more I/O on-die, where does that leave Intel's putative "process advantage?" Zen is fabbed on GF/Samsung's 14nm which is supposed to be a generation behind Intel's. TSMC's 16nm shows even better Perf/W than Samsung's 14nm, albeit at the cost of some extra die space. (~10% higher Perf/W, ~10% larger die judging by A9s produced by respective fab houses)

What about the occasionally-floated assertion that Samsung/TSMC's processes are only good for small mobile chips or low-frequency GPUs, and unable to produce high-frequency CPUs? 3.4 GHz seems enough to quash that supposition?

 

[CatMerc]

They could still have a process advantage, but Zen could actually be superior architecturally in those areas, making up for it

 

[superstition]

By the way, 3.1 Gen 1/3.1 Gen 2 are the most stupid names I have seen in technology standards for a long time. Why not just bump the number up one, instead of adding a stupid generation identifier?

I really don't understand why naming is so vastly difficult for tech firms.

"Gee, Wally, let's have two completely different GPU chips in two different graphics cards and give them the same name! And, let's ship Lenovo S10 netbooks to all the reviewers with a matte screen and then substitute a glossy one for shipping units."

"Great idea, Beav. While we're at it, let's have USB 3.0, USB 3.1 Gen 1, USB 3.1 Gen 2, and several different connector types!"

"Anything to confuse the consumer with. Let's have five different version numbers for the same motherboard, even though big things changed like the CPUs they support, the VRM spec, and even what sound chip they use! We can't just change a letter in the motherboard's name or something? Nah, it's better to use a 7 point font somewhere on the box."

So what is Max Speed of DDR4 on X370?

Max speed that's truly stable at sane voltage.

 

[superstition]

That may well be the case, but why would this be of any worry if Ryzen has the goods, namely IPC(+SMT) and clocks? I have heard that up to and including 3Ghz was achievable as of December, but like I said this is not that big of a deal. People who want absolute best ST performance will go with KL and its crazy 5Ghz OC anyway, so who cares?

Has AMD ever had faster memory performance than Intel? Even the Pentium 4 had faster Sandra results than AMD's Athlon XP from what I vaguely remember. It seems like Intel has long placed a premium on designing CPUs to have fast RAM performance. I also seem to remember that when Intel was being beaten by AMD in games and such its CPUs still topped the charts in RAM speed tests.