I too believe those charts refer to performance per watt increases.
I don't see any precedence for thinking so much higher in gains.
Sent from HTC 10
3.2GHz 8C/16T providing 2 - 2.2x MT performance of a FX-8350 would mean that the IPC has increased by 100 - 120%. Either you expect Zen to be > 73% faster than Excavator, or Excavator to be 42.85% faster than Piledriver. Either way, both figures differ significantly from AMDs own figures / expectations: PD to XV = 15.5% (average), XV to Zen <= 40%. That's with 25% SMT yield, which is pretty optimistic IMO.
With those specs Zen would have significantly higher IPC than Haswell / Broadwell / Skylake and most likely Kaby Lake.
I counted SMT for Zen and MT penalty for PD in the speed-up:
* while running on the same clock*
1.40(over XV) x 1.15 (XV over PD) x 1.25 (SMT speed-up) / 0.83 (penalty PD has when running 2 threads on a module) = 2.4x
*counting in the clock difference, Zen 3.2Ghz base, PD 8350 4Ghz base*
2.4 x 3.2 / 4 = 1.92 or pretty much 2x over 8350, just like the first slide that had Orochi showed
For ST code it is easier,assuming Zen can reach 3.7Ghz in Turbo mode while 8350 runs at 4.2Ghz :
1.4 x 1.15 x 3.7 / 4.2 = 1.42 so between 40 and 45%, stock vs stock.
BTW I think they absolutely MUST hit these numbers at the very least, if not better, if they want to compete in 2017 and onward.
What is funny and interesting, applying these ST/MT "hypothetical speed-ups" in anandtech bench results for 8350, one arrives at 5960x performance (+-10%).
You got me confused, first one "same clock" measures ST or MT ??
For MT we should compare single ZEN Core vs one Module.
Next step in those performance predictions will be workload based estimations. CB is done, what next? DX11/DX12 games, media processing, office... What are you guys interested in the most?
Zen delayed to 2017 according to digitimes.
http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/22252-intel-och-amd-drojer-med-nya-processorer-till-januari-2017
Virtual machines. I am being tired of Intel sluggish improvement.Next step in those performance predictions will be workload based estimations. CB is done, what next? DX11/DX12 games, media processing, office... What are you guys interested in the most?
First case was for 8C/16T 4Ghz/4.2Ghz Zen Vs stock 8350 in MT code - obviously that sort of Zen is not going to happen as 4Ghz stock is a pipe dream. Then I just adjusted for more realistic clock of 3.2Ghz when running MT code.
Second case was pure ST workload and I assumed Zen can reach 3.7Ghz in such scenario Vs 4.2Ghz that 8350 runs at.
edit:
To further explain , running at the same clock:
1M/2T PD scores 0.8x2=1.6 pts in MT code.
1C/2T Zen scores 1.6 x 1.25 = 2 pts in MT code.
4M/8T PD scores 6.4 pts
8C/16T Zen scores 16 pts.
Zen at the same clock is 2.5x faster. Now adjust for difference in clock speed: 2.5 x 3.2 / 4 = 2 or 2x faster than 8350 @ Stock.
ST code is easier : 1.6 x 3.7 / 4.2 = 1.41 or Zen with 3.7Ghz ST Turbo is 41% faster than stock 8350.
Hope it is clearer now.
If Single ZEN Core + SMT on the new 14nm FF is only 25% faster in MT (same 4GHz) than a 2012 32nm SOI PileDriver Module then AMD is screwed.
How would AMD be screwed if an 8 core Zen CPU is twice as fast in MT workloads as a 4M8T Piledriver CPU? With an 8350 at 640 in something like R15 while a 5960X is 1337. Getting essentially a tie with an 8C Intel HEDT chip would be a big win for Zen, IMO.
So you expect a 8C/16T Zen to have 4.0GHz base frequency, at 95W?
How would AMD be screwed if an 8 core Zen CPU is twice as fast in MT workloads as a 4M8T Piledriver CPU? With an 8350 at 640 in something like R15 while a 5960X is 1337. Getting essentially a tie with an 8C Intel HEDT chip would be a big win for Zen, IMO.
How would AMD be screwed if an 8 core Zen CPU is twice as fast in MT workloads as a 4M8T Piledriver CPU? With an 8350 at 640 in something like R15 while a 5960X is 1337. Getting essentially a tie with an 8C Intel HEDT chip would be a big win for Zen, IMO.
OK. I'll put them on my list as a codec like type of software. Analyzing the individual ones wouldn't create much better accuracy given the general prediction error.Modern media codecs, HEVC / BGP & VP9.
Difficult to analyze the way I intended to use. But as AMD had data centers in mind when creating Zen and its somewhat bigger brother K12, I'm sure, that Zen well do well there. The DMC might also help here.Virtual machines. I am being tired of Intel sluggish improvement.
They could have saved all this time and money and resources to make ZEN by doubling the Modules on a CMT design Excavator+ at 14nm and have the same MT performance.
So what you people say is that they spend 4-5 years, spending Billions in R&D to reach the same performance in MT they could have by simple increase the CMT modules of the current design. Which it would be just perfect on a 14nm FF process.
I dont believe I have said a single word abut ST, I was only talking about MT and that is what 99% of the users going to buy an 8 core 16 Threads CPU are interested in. Single thread performance only matters to Desktop Gamers. And I have a feeling by the start of 2017 this one will not have that much of a gravity in Desktop gamers buying decisions as before in DX-11 era.
They could have saved all this time and money and resources to make ZEN by doubling the Modules on a CMT design Excavator+ at 14nm and have the same MT performance.
So what you people say is that they spend 4-5 years, spending Billions in R&D to reach the same performance in MT they could have by simple increase the CMT modules of the current design. Which it would be just perfect on a 14nm FF process.
How would porting any of the recent 15h designs on 14nm process and increasing the module count address it's fatal flaws, such as the obsolete single threaded performance? Not by "the higher speeds made (im)possible by the 14nm LPP" I hope?
How would porting any of the recent 15h designs on 14nm process and increasing the module count address it's fatal flaws, such as the obsolete single threaded performance? Not by "the higher speeds made (im)possible by the 14nm LPP" I hope?
Now increase the clocks to 4.5GHz and they could have a 8x CMT Module more than 2,5x faster than current PD FX8350. Just upgrading the Ecavator core and porting it to 14nm LPP.