Newbie's Guide To WaterCooling

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: TVisitor
I've been thinking about a WC solution for my new PC. I am thinking about overclocking, but more for the quiet factor. I have a window next to me, and I can take the radiator & fans and put them between the screen and the window. What kind of restrictions do I have on length of the tubing that I can use (though I guess it's really overall circuit length of the tubing - from pump input to output - and the pump itself) ? My case is less than a foot from the window. I realize this doesn't make my PC portable - or even easily movable - but I don't care. The only time my PC ever moved was to take it outside to blow the dust out of the fans and heatsinks. I'm asking in this guide section because it might be a useful thing to put in.

BTW - thanks so much for the guide, I was wondering where I can find a good guide to WC, as a lot of WC review and guides I find seem to be very old as well.

You'll have no prob that close to your pc, my sig system the rads are in a closet but I use dual pumps. I have run with one pump and had no probs. Have a care when the temps go down outside though as condensation will form on the blocks and the rads can freeze if it gets cold enough.

 

[TVisitor]

Any benefit to putting the pump elsewhere as well (to even eliminate that noise?) - of course my closet is about 5' away and no ventilation, not sure if that would really be a good idea.

One thing I was curious about - say you're using 1/2" ID tubing. I took a look at some of the sites that offer lots of cooling options, and I didn't see RAM coolers that did 1/2" tubing, they had less (i.e. the Thermaltake ones). You can get adapters to deal with this, but once you go to a smaller fitting, aren't you defeating the purpose of 1/2" ID all around? Why not just get smaller to begin with if that's the case? (and I realize they say that the 1/2" ID, being the largerst, is the best option for best water throughput).

 

[Marci]

If plumbing in 1/4" ID stuff such as RamCoolers, invest in a pair of Swiftech F Fittings to run the 1/4" items on a separate branch. Doesn't impair the flowrate on the main 1/2" branch, and the 1/4" branch receives enough flow to do the job... as can be seen here:

http://marci.over-clock.com/du...ld/slides/DSCI0078.JPG

But, at the end of the day, there is no benefit to liquidcooling ram. You won't see clocks any higher than aircooled ram (this was proven when a user at XS many years ago compared aircooled vs watercooled vs tec cooled vs promi cooled vs -190deg C dualstage cascade vs LN on ram, and the same max achievable overclock was managed regardless of the cooling used). Ram doesn't have fans attached, so it's not like liquidcooling it will make it any quieter...


Next up, Radiator Heat Capacity. Its determined by a combination of airflow and liquid flow. Reference the data here ( http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting/ ) to find out max cooling capacity of your rad with your current fans... assume liq flowrate is in region of 1 to 1.5gpm (6lpm)... ALL radiators can remove 1kw of heat happily - if you blow enough air thru them.


Also - DangerDen don't make rads. Best to try to avoid referring to BlackIce rads as "DD's"... they're made by HWLabs. DangerDen just sell them. Causes lots of confusion elsewhere when folks start saying "I've got this rad that DD makes..." when they don't actually make any rads.

However the Thermochill PA cant compete against the 120x4. Theres too much surface area on that DD rad vs the thermochill PA rad.

Again, all depends on the fans & heatload in question. Using silent fans such as Nexus or Yateloon, with them set to around 7v, the PA120.3 actually outperforms the BI480GTX... but as you move up to more powerful fans, the 480GTX takes over and pulls into the lead. If you're a silence fanatic, using Nexus fans at 5v, then yes, the PA120.3 will outperform the 480GTX below a specific heatload...

Finally - tube size. 1/2" was the king for a long time... however, the design of waterblocks has evolved and thus so has their performance and so has what is needed to GET that performance.

Have a read of: http://www.over-clock.com/arti...on=show&showarticle=23

The rules of watercooling as have been established over the past 10 years are now evolving... gotta keep on top of the info...

 

[aigomorla]

welcome to AT marci.

For you guys that dont know, he's the owner of thermochill.

 

[WoodButcher]

Marci, thanks for coming to AT and more importantly thanks for the rads. I'm relatively new as an "enthusiast" started building a little over a year ago, but my entry to water was dismal,,,, thermal.... aqua.... kits. Pure junk. Reading the forums kept me trying and research led to thermochill.
thanks again.

 

[Marci]

he's the owner of thermochill.

Technical Manager & public representative within the community... Steve is the owner...

 

[lyerx]

good job

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: Marci

he's the owner of thermochill.

Technical Manager & public representative within the community... Steve is the owner...

So,, Steve gets the cash while you get the work, thanks again, your efforts are appreciated.

 

[frythecpuofbender]

Maybe this will help some WC newbie like I am /was:

I really wanted my new built with watercooling but was hesitant to fumble with drilling holes in expensive cases and didn't quite know what to get, so:

Just got the Ready2Go Case Coolermaster Stacker Silver with Triple Radiator NexXxoS Pro III, NexXxos XP Light CPU block and an Eheim pump.
The whole system was preassembled, carefully packaged. Prefilled with an anti-corrosive coolant substance.
My first step was to just connect the Power supply (enermax infiniti) and check if the whole system worked.
Then I tilted the case up/down left/right for some time to get the air bubbles out of the radiator.
Then I left the whole thing on for 30 minutes. (just the power supply, no mobo) and checked for leaks. No leaks.
Then I installed:
Power supply, P5K Deluxe, Q6600 G0
Then came the part I always get nervous at:
Connecting Cooler with CPU!
Used Arctic Silver 5 as described in their instructions. Just a line.
Then 4GB HP2 Mushkin DDR800, Leadtek 8800GTS640
Then checked if everything was working. And it works. The whole thing is very silent. There are 2x120mm fans in the Stacker, 3 from the radiator and the 130mm fan from the power supply.

Now I'm off installing XP. CPU Temps so far showed as 27° C idle and it is a very hot day! The Cpu is cooler than the Mobo which is at 37°!
Only problem I encountered so far: I had to update the P5K bios for the new G0 microcode
http://www.alphacool.de/produc...Silber-UNI-Triple.html


Now I have a few questions regarding monitoring: Since there is no easy way to quickly check if the water is still flowing...no air bubbles except for some tiny turbulences in the CPU block. What would be the perfect addition to monitor the waterflow? Any recommendations for LCD Displays (Aquaero, Alphacool)? Or some device which would make an emergency power down if the flow suddenly stopped?
If I choose to install an additional thermosensor, where would be the best point in the flow? (Only have CPU watercooling)

 

[dlbetz]

aigomorla, What is a good water setup for my rig?

Case= Thermaltake Tai-Chi
Cpu= E6600
Mobo= Ga-n680sli-dq6
Video= Foxconn 640 8800 gts

Thanks!!!!

 

[brightangelus]

Just wanted to thank aigomorla for his FAQ.

I'm a complete newbie. I don't even know how to drill holes in my pc, yet this guide and other posts in this forum have helped me greatly to decide on watercooling my pc.

I was considering a KL system and after reading a bit in here, I decided against it and went with an external kit from alphacool (240mm rad, Nexxxos XP lite cpu block, eheim 600l/h pump with reservoir). Given that I'm not really clued in, I'm sure there's some degree of controversy over those parts, but, well, forgive this newbie.

Just for the record, I am running the following:

E4300 o/c to 2997mhz (9 x 333mhz)
4 gigs of Ram (nothing fancy)
8800gts 320 meg (currently o/c to 620mhz gpu and 900mhz ram)
Gigabyte P35-DS4
Thermaltake toughpower 750w.

My previous setup used a Thermalright Ultra-120. My idle temps were 38degC and full load (2 instances of Prime 95) was 70degC.

After installing the wc loop, my idle temp droped to 27-28degC (ambient is about 27degC) and full load moves somewhere between 48 - 53degC.

I'm very pleased by this. Thanks again for encouraging me to take the leap.

Now I'm even itchier and wish to cool my 8800gts, but I am having a devil of a time finding good comparison reviews. I've shortlisted EK, DD and Alphacool's blocks full board blocks. Alphacool's is the thinnest, but there appear to be some issues about flow which I am not quite understanding.

I've got several questions...I'd be grateful for someone's views on them.

1. Based on my setup, would I be pushing things installing a gpu block? I'm intending to go with a Q6600 sooner or later and o/c that, so my temps are going to go up a bit.

2. Assuming the answer is 'yes' to the above, are there any views on which block is the best suited for my application? I don't want Swiftech's gpu block. I want something that covers the card.

Thanks guys.

EDIT: I meant this post as a sort of thank you post and a description of how wc has helped me, but it also turned into a request for advice. Should I create a new topic for this?

 

[jedisoulfly]

I did not read all comments so sorry if I'm going over old stuff but it might be a good idea to let people know to keep water cooled PCs extra clean. distilled water by nature is nonconductive because it has no impurities. basically its the impurities in water that conduct the electricity. spill or leak water on a dust covered mobo and that water is no longer pure and can become conductive. adding anything to distilled water could make it become conductive. just saying when water and electricity are involved a chance always exsist for a short.

 

[TranceAddictFoX]

wow I was starting to consider a water cooling solution for my computer so i came here which turned out to be a smart move by me. in a nut shell: best sticky post ever.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: jedisoulfly
I did not read all comments so sorry if I'm going over old stuff but it might be a good idea to let people know to keep water cooled PCs extra clean. distilled water by nature is nonconductive because it has no impurities. basically its the impurities in water that conduct the electricity. spill or leak water on a dust covered mobo and that water is no longer pure and can become conductive. adding anything to distilled water could make it become conductive. just saying when water and electricity are involved a chance always exsist for a short.

Actually, distilled and/or deionized water DOES conduct some electricity. Water spontaneously disassociates into H+ and OH- at Kw=10^-14...the basis of the pH scale. These ions are enough to support conduction, albeit with a VERY high resistivity.

Of course, it's much less conductive than tap water, or salt water. But since conductivity only matters when it's on your electronics, and of course your mobo is probably dirty enough to render it fairly conductive (not to mention that it will absorb ions aggressively once in contact with them)...the real reason for using distilled water is to prevent mineral buildup, bacterial/fungal/algae growth, and so on.

If you flushed your system every 6 months or so, you could get away with tap water.

But since distilled water is readily available at every supermarket, why bother?

 

[aigomorla]

wow did i lose my sticky for this thread? its falling...

Edit: I like to thank the Anandtech Moderator for renewing this sticky!

 

[eklock2000]

Love the guide and I'm interested in delving in to h2o cooling. I'm trying to figure out loops and radiators right now. Is it better to go with one 320 or 3 seperate 120's in a specific order in the loop? It makes sense to me that one would have...radiator then component, then radiator then component, etc., to dissipate the heat as you go? I'm looking to cool a C2Quad and one 8800GTX with maybe SLI down the road.

Thanks,

EK2K

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: eklock2000
Love the guide and I'm interested in delving in to h2o cooling. I'm trying to figure out loops and radiators right now. Is it better to go with one 320 or 3 seperate 120's in a specific order in the loop? It makes sense to me that one would have...radiator then component, then radiator then component, etc., to dissipate the heat as you go? I'm looking to cool a C2Quad and one 8800GTX with maybe SLI down the road.

Thanks,

EK2K

larger class radiator will always be better. so 320 > 120x2 + 120x1

And i would honestly split the loop up. Those pictures are kind of old. I should update them with my quad.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0721.jpg

she's getting these loaded temps at 16C ambients:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al.../aigomorla/Temps-2.jpg


But you would definitely need to split the loop up. The heat load on 8800GTX will kill your loop.

 

[Kamui]

hi guys, one quick question... does it make sense to water cool the chipset as well?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Kamui
hi guys, one quick question... does it make sense to water cool the chipset as well?

High overclocks where you pump fsb, it is sensible to cool the NB.

Also keep in mind when you watercool, unless your radiator is mounted up front, you lost all fans to your motherboard. Sometimes you need a fan near it to keep the board and chipset cool.

Also watercooling the NB will protect the board from stress, my boards lasted longer by watercooling it. And ive lost quite a few boards from pushing them too hard.

 

[TheVrolok]

Fantastic guide. I'm not sure I'm to the point of WC yet as I only plan to push my Q6600 to 3-3.2 maybe but this guide does get me excited at the prospect of it. Perhaps one day. What would you guys say you've spent, on average, to WC your system? And, what are you cooling? CPU only? CPU+RAM? CPU+GPU? CPU+NB? CPU+RAM+NB? etc.. etc.. I feel like to go really hardcore and cool the CPU/RAM/NB/GPU you'd be spending some serious cash.. upwards of 500 easily?

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Fantastic guide. I'm not sure I'm to the point of WC yet as I only plan to push my Q6600 to 3-3.2 maybe but this guide does get me excited at the prospect of it. Perhaps one day. What would you guys say you've spent, on average, to WC your system? And, what are you cooling? CPU only? CPU+RAM? CPU+GPU? CPU+NB? CPU+RAM+NB? etc.. etc.. I feel like to go really hardcore and cool the CPU/RAM/NB/GPU you'd be spending some serious cash.. upwards of 500 easily?

$500.oo??? Hell no! I've never needed more than $300.oo and that I feel is excessive. I don't use the "full cover" vid blocks like many do, they are generally card specific meaning when you upgrade your card you need a new block. I have a Thermochilll rad and find that also is not needed, swiftech makes a good rad at half the price. Even the tubing varies widely in price from $2.oo to .50 cents. Shop around for the better deals and do your homework, If you buy a Koolance system you can spend a fortune for mediocre cooling, build yourself and you'll save that fortune and have a top notch loop that will migrate with you when you upgrade your PC.

Here is a loop I suggested for some one in another forum, you do the math.

1 gpu block http://www.jab-tech.com/Dtek-F...-8800-GTX-pr-3796.html Many folks like the "full coverage" blocks but I won't use them as they are "card specific".

1 cpu block http://www.jab-tech.com/D-tek-...ter-Block-pr-3667.html

1 pump http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html

1 or 2 radbox, depends on how you mount, http://www.jab-tech.com/Swifte...n-2-Black-pr-3337.html

1 rad http://www.jab-tech.com/Swifte...-Radiator-pr-3320.html

3 fans http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-L...igh-Speed-pr-3771.html

tubing - 2 feet of the thick wall tube for inlet side of pump (gpu > pump) http://www.jab-tech.com/ClearF...ID-3-4-OD-pr-2431.html 8 feet of this will do the rest http://www.jab-tech.com/Master...ID-5-8-OD-pr-3079.html Be careful with kinks and tight radius the thin wall tube can collapse with suction of the pump. this is why I say 2 feet of the 3/4" OD on the back of your pump.

T-line, http://www.jab-tech.com/1-2-T-...ing-Black-pr-3519.html I make my own stopper for this but I think a DD fillport may work http://www.jab-tech.com/Danger...rt-Silver-pr-3052.html

hose clamps http://www.jab-tech.com/Plasti...mps-Black-pr-3522.html get 4 of the large size and 12 of the med. More than you need but if one is bad your not waiting three days for another to come in the mail.

 

[aigomorla]

heh woodbutcher summed it nicely for me.

My setup is probably around 500+. But mysetup isnt something a beginner should tinker with. The pump alone would scare any newbie.


Average setup for cpu loop only is around 200-260. Depending on radiator and parts.

The average setup for gpu and cpu is around 300-370. Depending on blocks, and rads.

The average high end setup will run around 400-450.

The highest tier using high end parts will climb upwards of 500. <at this point you need to think if you want to go phase or not because the price difference is ~100-150. >

 

[WoodButcher]

Me thinks you omitted the cost of that "Cadilac" those parts of yours ride around in Aigo, you couldn't fit your loops in any case you get from newegg unless a server case or that thermaltake. I think it's the "motzart" I'm thinking of, I actually like the appearance of it over the MM but I can't imagine it would be as functional without a lot of modding.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Me thinks you omitted the cost of that "Cadilac" those parts of yours ride around in Aigo, you couldn't fit your loops in any case you get from newegg unless a server case or that thermaltake. I think it's the "motzart" I'm thinking of, I actually like the appearance of it over the MM but I can't imagine it would be as functional without a lot of modding.

LOL caddy, i think my CM STACKER T01 is a caddy.... my U2 is more like a lincon navigator....

Yeah, the case is uber expensive too...


BTW theres a new waterblock out by EK thats supposidely better then the fusion and GTX.

EK Supreme.... and it has jets, so someone like me who has a pump with tons of head power will see performance increase from adjusting the voltage on it.


Do you guys think i should list out current top and mid tier parts?

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Do you guys think i should list out current top and mid tier parts?

Yes, a section at the end of your guide would be great if kept current. You'll need a fire extinguisher for the occasional flamer but I think it would be a good reference. If you linked to reveiws and, or testing that backed your opinions that would be ideal.