Newbie's Guide To WaterCooling

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WoodButcher

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2001
2,158
0
76
Originally posted by: Akaz1976
Can I use simple distilled water without any additive as coolant without damaging stuff?

In a strictly copper block / rad loop yes. NO mixing metals!
 

waxking1

Senior member
Sep 29, 2003
243
2
81
WoodButcher,
You have a nice setup. I'm considering watercooling using one loop for my CPU and graphics card. I may separate them later but I am new to WC and don't want to get too complicated my first try. Your red loop looks like it could be modified to work for me but I have some questions.

You have a T between your radiator and CPU that looks like a drain line but it looks like it may attach at the top filler(Idon't think it does but the picture makes it look this way). If this is the drain line and you lower it to drain, does the radiator have to be removed to drain fully? Are those quick connect couplings on your reservoir and if so why do you need them there?

I'm planning on using copper EK blocks for CPU and GPU(GT200). How do you know you are ordering copper fittings. Most of the sites I've gone to have pictures that look like steel or aluminum and the descriptions don't say what they are made of.

When you hook up your fans on the 3x120, do you splice the wires of each fan into the next with the last set of wires going to the controller? Thanks

Edit because I found your build thread and it is answering some of my questions but I'm still reading it.
 

WoodButcher

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2001
2,158
0
76
Originally posted by: waxking1

You have a T between your radiator and CPU that looks like a drain line but it looks like it may attach at the top filler(Idon't think it does but the picture makes it look this way).
Your right, it just hangs out up there, being longer just is more conveinent to fill / bleed and drain.
If this is the drain line and you lower it to drain, does the radiator have to be removed to drain fully? I blow air through the system to drain but it dosen't drain dry, just enough to take things apart without building the ark first.
Are those quick connect couplings on your reservoir and if so why do you need them there? No quick disconnects, That res has been changed out for XSPC restops because it leaked. My plexi- work needs some work!!!

I'm planning on using copper EK blocks for CPU and GPU(GT200). How do you know you are ordering copper fittings. Most of the sites I've gone to have pictures that look like steel or aluminum and the descriptions don't say what they are made of. Just ask, the better stores will have answers. Read reviews or post up on anand and some chump like me will have the answer. I'm always willing to share my lack of knowledge! I'm pretty sure that EK is all copper, they might have a nickel plating but I would say your on the right track..

When you hook up your fans on the 3x120, do you splice the wires of each fan into the next with the last set of wires going to the controller? Yes, splice, solder and heat-shrink tubing. All but the RPM wires, those I cut short and cover using only the last fan in line to monitor speed.
Thanks
Your welcome! Thanks for the kind words. Flattery of my work will get you,,,,
hmm,
not much,,,,,
but I will help where I can:laugh:


Edit because I found your build thread and it is answering some of my questions but I'm still reading it.
lots and lots of helpful people around here and to the best of my knowledge Aigo is at the top of the heap, If you post a new thread he is bound to see it but if not knock on his door, send a PM.

 

ThaJollyMan

Member
Jun 10, 2008
89
0
0
Originally posted by: aigomorla
If you combo the two, that?s a bit overkill as KY Jelly is awesome on its own.


I was reading through this getting as much info as i can before i start leak testing and came across this line...Maybe i am just immature but i thought it was hilarious. Good one Aigo!! And i agree that KY is awesome on its own.............for water cooling...of course for water cooling. Anyway, so far this this has been very informative and i will be using it every step of the way as i put my WC system together. Thanks Aigo!
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126


This thread should be used for general questions.

Should you guys require finer detail, like recient part selection, i ugre you guys to make your own thread.

Remember water is not an air sink, meaning there is no typical 1 general setup.

So each case must be looked at individually.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126
Good question.

I didnt notice that until now. :X
 

Wrzesien

Junior Member
Mar 9, 2009
1
0
0
I'm looking at using water cooling for the first time and have read this guide and some forums at other sites (spcr, XtremeSystems). After months of wallflowering I think a simple system would work well for me: my goals are near-silence, clean interior, light weight/less stress on cpu/mb than a 750g air cooler, no maintenance and reasonable cost ($100).

I have just built a Corei7 system in a Silverstone FT01 silver with window case on a Gigabyte board. The look is great with an aluminum and blue color scheme - I'm avoiding copper for cosmetic reasons. This this case already has great air flow with two 180mm 700 RPM intake fans and a 120mm 900 RPM exhaust fan - I would like to mount a single 120mm radiator internally on the exhaust fan with a simple water kit. Graphics cooling is not important right now as I'm thinking about a passive card like the 4670 in the long run.

With the i7 getting more reasonable in price can you run a small comparison of the water cooling kits on the market today? Including one or two air-coolers and maybe one 2x120mm water cooling kit would make for a nice decision matrix. Some of the products I'm considering:

A good air cooler for the LGA1366 like the HRT-120 XT

CoolIT Domino A.L.C. (Has native LGA1366/775 support)
http://www.coolitsystems.com/i...o-alc-released&catid=2ress-release&Itemid=3

Swiftech H20-120 (Needs an adaptor for LGA1366)
http://www.swiftech.com/products/h20-120-compact.asp

Any other single 120mm radiator 1, 2 or multi-piece kits you know about for the LGA1366.

Swiftech H20-240 (for higher-end rad performance)

A custom H20 rig with best-in-breed parts for pump, block, radiator (3x120 maybe?).

Thanks a bunch!
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126
Originally posted by: Wrzesien
With the i7 getting more reasonable in price can you run a small comparison of the water cooling kits on the market today? Including one or two air-coolers and maybe one 2x120mm water cooling kit would make for a nice decision matrix. Some of the products I'm considering:

A good air cooler for the LGA1366 like the HRT-120 XT

CoolIT Domino A.L.C. (Has native LGA1366/775 support)
http://www.coolitsystems.com/i...o-alc-released&catid=2ress-release&Itemid=3

Swiftech H20-120 (Needs an adaptor for LGA1366)
http://www.swiftech.com/products/h20-120-compact.asp

Any other single 120mm radiator 1, 2 or multi-piece kits you know about for the LGA1366.

Swiftech H20-240 (for higher-end rad performance)

A custom H20 rig with best-in-breed parts for pump, block, radiator (3x120 maybe?).

Thanks a bunch!

hello and welcome...

please post a new thread in cases and cooling and ask your question there.

Guys, please do not ask anything but very basic and gerneral questions in this thread.

1. when we move to VB i intend to replace it with a better one.
2. Maybe your question is a really good question?

Its easier to search via thread then by post, so if your question is a really good question, then it be nice having a thread on it.

 

Caveman

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,532
34
91
I just read the thread. Thanks for the info. My biggest question is if you've kept your recommendations up to date since the original posts in 07. It would be good to edit the original with new product recommendations if you have any... And put dates to the time the last recommendations are made. That way, those folks who are noobs will know the info they have is old (or new as the case could be). I was very interested in the cooling cases you recommend and had never heard of mountain UFO.

All the info was great. Thanks.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Honestly, I think that watercooling is something that for the vast majority of people doesn't yield the benefits of all the trouble, maintenance and constant crossing of fingers. When I did mine of went with best of breed parts and ordered them from Petra's tech.

It does cool well, but essentially once the system reaches a steady state it all comes down to the radiator and the main benefit is that the radiator is outside the case as opposed to being a heatsink inside the case. It can be quieter, but as often happens you need to have your fans on high speed anyway to get the kind of static pressure you need to force air through the radiator. Now the the only difference is these fans are outside now and are much more audible.

I used the Swiftech MCR-320 radiator with 3 fans for extra measure. While it gives you about 15-20 minutes of "free time" to play your game or run your encoding/transcoding the water temperature gets pretty darn high and your have to turn up those fans anyway. It isn't quiet at all. The pump and it's constant "swooshing" is always audible no matter what kind of silicone dampening material you use. It seems that maybe my results would have been better with a push-pull fan system on the radiator so 6 120mm fans total for CPU cooling. I think these days you get close enough with a nice Heatsink and push-pull fan configuration with none of the headache.

BTW, I looked into the Coolit Domino, just take a quick look at Newegg reviews and see how much they leak. The whole point of buying that thing is to not have to deal with leaks since the system is supposed to be factory sealed. But it leaks. And it gets soundly outperformed by several air coolers. At least with a custom W/C build you can stop the system and diagnose your leaks, with this Domino thing, you have to send it back for warranty replacement. I hope you don't actually need to use the system while that is going on.

I guess in every hobbyist's building career the desire to build a W/C setup is something I cannot deny, but in hindsight and given recent improvements in heatsinks, I wouldn't do it again. I would consider a simple "install it and forget it" system that is PROVEN over time/reviews not to leak, but then again the gains are still not all that. You still need some crazy fans to blow on the radiator and with those radiator fins being as close as they are, you will need some very noisy fans to get the best of it all. I don't mean CFM which is joke measurement but you will need something with some real static pressure like the 3000RPM Scythe Ultra Kaze. And those are not quiet. I think it really only benefits you can place the radiator outside in the winter and next to the A/C in the summer. Otherwise, it's just an "external heatsink".

To that end I would rather a heatpipe system that can use an entire aluminum case with fins as the heatsink. I mean every panel of that case with fins and internal heatpipes that transfer the heat to the very large area of the case itself. Meanwhile the innards using fans and fins as usual for extra measure. If you want, aim a table fan at the case. That's some cooling. If liquid must be used it should be used to transfer heat to the case, let copper pipes run along the entire side of the case like the back of a refrigerator. The you can mount as many fans of whatever size you need behind it blowing outwards, or again just use a table fan. That's the kind of area that would make it worth the while. Not that dinky little 3 120MM fan radiator that really doesn't outperform a large modern heatsink with push-pull fans.

Basically the radiator is the limiting factor and today's radiators are nothing to write home about. When they get to be as big as the side of a case (and yes they might cost $200 at that point) and allow some decent airflow with reasonable fans (not the constrained mess that today's radiators are), then we can talk about water cooling again. It seems today's watercooling is the same stuff as 2 years ago with newer waterblocks for newer mounts. The real bottleneck IME is the radiator. I had plenty of water pressure and waterflow, but the radiator just got hot. The tubes got hot. The heat needs to go somewhere. The high specific heat of water only helps for the first 15-20 minutes and then you hit steady state. It's no panacea.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Couple questions, first regarding the practicality of water cooling my system, and second being big one: effective radiator and mounting techniques

Currently, my rig is spec'd as follows:
C2D e6420 (2.13ghz stock, 8x266), currently @ 8x400, 3.2ghz
4gb, 2x2gb DDR2-800
GTX 285
3 HDDs, 2-160GB, 1-1TB

I've had the CPU over 3.4ghz, 8x430, and with cooling management I should be able to hit 3.6 with little effort. Thermal management regarding opening up voltages has been the deal breaker. Idle temps over 50 I am not pleased with, and that's not difficult if we don't have air on, and my second floor room at my parents house in the summer gets easily around 85ºF or higher if air is not on. At school, the air conditioning is always on, was easily able to keep the 3.4ghz OC stable.
My Northbridge is the killer, it's still passive, probably going to zip-tie a small fan to drop the temp a few ºC.

I think I can drop the vcore some, probably bring the CPU temps down a bit.
Current temps, on a decent night outside, not super warm in my room:
System: 43ºC
NB: 52ºC
CPU: 47ºC (hottest core, basic app load, average 5-10% CPU utilization)
GPU: 53ºC

Now, the issue is... I'd love to maybe see a 3.6-3.8ghz CPU OC, but with a C2D, how much more real world performance increases is that going to bring, and is it worth the cost of a couple hundred in a water cooling setup. Yes I know cost justification is a personal thing, just kind of venting how I am approaching this, and want to get some outside opinion on this to help with my decision.

Bringing the NB down a bit in temp, and working out the clock rate/voltage, I might be able to get 3.3-3.4ghz on air and still be manageable in the summer. Though I'd rather just play with the voltage and bring the current temps down, leave the current OC, versus keep the temps the same by upping the clock rate, which even managing the voltages would definitely keep the current temps the same.
BTW, using a Scythe Ninja B cpu cooler, one 120mm fan pushing across CPU toward system rear, one 120mm fan on the back, pulling air out of the system, and is 2 inches from the CPU cooler, directly in line, pretty good push/pull set up. Would be creating a terrible whirlwind by adding a dedicated pull fan, not much space.

Case is an NZXT Lexa, original series.

So with current configuration out of the way, that'll help with the justification decision.
Most importantly, I tend to upgrade the system components every few years, gaming is the main focus of the power, everything else, regardless of how power hungry an app is, I just get by with how it is, and power hungry apps I don't use much for anything serious. Playing around in Photoshop from time to time, encoding a video on occasion for PS3 playback or burning, or decoding for video playback on my system.

I enjoy the concept of overclocking my video cards, but really, with the current tech inside of them, how much real world gain can be had from putting an extra 50-75mhz on the core clock of the GPU, or shaders or memory. Whole video card generations seem to be where the real extra FPS come from, maybe a handful at most from just overclocking, or have I had bad experiences? When some games are only getting 60fps or less on an as-is card, is that low of clock changes going to increase more than 5fps in a game?

Now, moving on to the , "if I go this route, how am I going to accomplish it" part...

As I stated, I have an original series NZXT Lexa. Difference in the original and current series, no holes on top for mounting an external radiator. Case is small though, about 17" or so between the top structure "lips".

Currently, I've kind of decided that if I go water cooling, I'm going to skip the video card, just because the better blocks are specific to each card, and an expensive replacement with each upgrade. That, and since the GTX 285 is voltage-locked, no internal voltage regulator (EVGA even offers a voltage modifier utility, in warranty to boot, but has stated the 285 is not supported, nvidia reference design cut costs by locking the voltage), I am left to thermal management, and the luck of the board, with overclocking. Considering the cards can handle a great deal of heat, and my recent trials with OCing the board haven't granted a great deal of extra power (evga card is already overclocked from reference), it's really just a question of how much thermal output I'm comfortable with. The fan is amazingly quiet even at high load, so I'm satisfied with no water cooling block on the card. Easier to troubleshoot by removing the video card if nothing is attached as well. Not to forget the whole upgrading thing, that's the part I upgrade most often. Typically every other chip generation.

With that in mind, I'd be keeping any loop to this: CPU, then North Bridge. Maybe adding Mosfets and Southbridge into the equation. Don't have any insane performance hard drives, so that might not be a worthwhile venture.

Big question for this topic though: what size radiator is really going to be the most I'd really need. Let's say, my loop is: CPU, North Bridge, MOSFETs/Voltage regulators, then to the water cooling components.
Looking at my case, and the fact that I move my system at least a total of 4 times a year between summer and winter breaks, and sometimes to a LAN gathering with my buddies in the summer and winter. I wouldn't really want to deal with a lot of external complications if moving it a bit.
Plus, would I need a 2x120 or 3x120 if keeping a relatively modest cooling setup?

Could I gain good performance and overclock potential, with a single 120mm fan radiator?

If not, would mounting style is the best, considering my case? Would a rad/res/pump external system, with flow-lock couplings, be the better route, and just kind of set it on top/across the top of my case? Those units are not cheap, and the cooling blocks and everything else still need to be purchased as well.

Basically, I look to it as a fun hobby, but I don't want it to be simply a mean of keeping the current configuration with lower temps. If I do it, I want to enjoy the hobby aspect but also make it practical and give potentially more overclock room, by helping manage temps from voltage.
And then there's the desire to sometime in the relatively near future make the upgrade to i5/i7 when prices become more realistic, if performance gains are worthy. As a gamer, the big emphasis tends to be the GPU, and just making sure there are no components holding the system back.
 

sparkuss

Member
Jul 4, 2003
102
0
76
Hope this is basic enough. I tried searching the topic but no luck.

Q. In a dual pump loop (Anandtech dual dd-lang etc) would you put both pumps in series together on one side of the loop (radiator output) or would you put one at the front of the loop and one after the last cooled component (radiator intake) ?

Thanks
 

aequasi

Member
Sep 30, 2009
106
0
0
idk if this is too general of a question, but whats a normal price range for setting up watercooling, with cooling on two gpus, cpu, hd's and ram?
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
Originally posted by: aequasi
idk if this is too general of a question, but whats a normal price range for setting up watercooling, with cooling on two gpus, cpu, hd's and ram?

Depends on how hardcore you want the WC to be... IMHO anything less that ~$200 will do around the same as the best air coolers. It could easily be over 1k, best thing to do is go out and look at reviews yourself and see what your needs are

Oh yea, you dont need to WC ram: http://galeria.purepc.pl/d/43685-1/ln2.jpg

Best way to WC a HDD is to buy a SSD
 

aequasi

Member
Sep 30, 2009
106
0
0
thanks, yeah id love to get a SSD, but my problem is, is i want a 500gb SSD lol, and ive been curious if its anyway benificial to WC the memory and hd, but im thinking not

im looking at building a new computer sometime after christmas, i7 with two 5870x2's, so i guess thats all i really need to worry about with cooling
 

sparkuss

Member
Jul 4, 2003
102
0
76
RE: The Black Pearl thread,

Aigo, you said you preferred a bottom-pull setup for the cooler air draw. In any pull into the case, does the air exiting the fans have any measurable moisture to it? Depending on the parts, do I have to ensure that the fans exhaust air is removed quickly to obtain my desired level of cooling, before it heats up the interior?

Also some of your stacks pictures would appear to also be push-pull depending where the fan is, would a push-pull on the bottom of a case get any better results than just bare rad facing the intake vents.

Would there be any benefit to shrouding the exhaust side of the fans (with enough space not to restrict) and ducting that exhaust air immediately out the case? Poor drawing idea below.

<--------------------------------Evacuate
_________________________
F..........................................| Shroud over top
A.........FAN--FAN--FAN...........|
N.........|r a d i a t o r |...........|
_________________________|
Case Floor
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126
there is no way your gonna pull moisture from a copper radiator, unless u punctured and damaged your radiator.
 

sparkuss

Member
Jul 4, 2003
102
0
76
I see how the rad kits have gaskets for the fan side attached to the rad and then the other side, push or pull, is open to the air (in most builds Ive seen).

If you are pushing a bottom set of fans, how much clearance do they need to get air? Can the open side be flush with the case vent holes or do they need at least some clearance to breathe in?

I'm designing my Black Pearl and the bottom case vent holes do not span the entire floor width, only on both outer edges. Any fans on the bottom would be blocked center if flush with the floor.

^^
RAD
FAN
FLOOR

P.S. If this is more a worklog question, feel free to delete and I'll start a new thread as soon as I have all my ideas final.
 
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