NEX vs Micro Four-Thirds (m43) Systems

[sygyzy]

Yeah. I thought about the K01 since I'm already a K7 user. But what's the point besides price? It's really not a small camera next to other ILCs, or even pentax's smallest dslr bodies. Great IQ, and a helluvan existing lens selection though.

At these prices though, I might have to jump on it anyway ...

I read it's like a K-5 without a viewfinder. I don't know anything about Pentax or their line. I assume K7 is better than K5?

 

[pdo]

The K-5 is a newer cameras with Sony's best crop sensors. You can checkout images produced with the K-01 and 40mm lens with the link below...


www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-01/178409-add-your-best-k-01-photos-here.html

 

[guachi]

I have a Panasonic GH-1.

The 4/3 lens line-up is really fantastic. It's easily the best of all mirrorless cameras. A variety of great primes and some are pancake for extra compactness. The wee 14mm is only 55 grams! Collapsible zoom lenses. A few telephotos. Some long range lenses - 600mm (eq.) for 1/2 a kg! Plus a pair of fast (2.8) zoom lenses. Oh, and I can't forget macro and wide-angle lenses.

If you think you may get am OMD E-5 at some point (or a later OMD or a GH series from Panasonic) but aren't sure of the cost or format yet, there are some deals going on that are hard to beat. You can get a G3 with kit lens and B&H Photo for $299. It's a good camera and you can use the money saved to pick a few lenses to play with.

Then, if you like the system, you can always buy a newer body later.

 

[blastingcap]

I have a Panasonic GH-1.

The 4/3 lens line-up is really fantastic. It's easily the best of all mirrorless cameras. A variety of great primes and some are pancake for extra compactness. The wee 14mm is only 55 grams! Collapsible zoom lenses. A few telephotos. Some long range lenses - 600mm (eq.) for 1/2 a kg! Plus a pair of fast (2.8) zoom lenses. Oh, and I can't forget macro and wide-angle lenses.

If you think you may get am OMD E-5 at some point (or a later OMD or a GH series from Panasonic) but aren't sure of the cost or format yet, there are some deals going on that are hard to beat. You can get a G3 with kit lens and B&H Photo for $299. It's a good camera and you can use the money saved to pick a few lenses to play with.

Then, if you like the system, you can always buy a newer body later.

I had a G3; it's a steal at $299 but man, I hated the button placement on that thing, as I kept accidentally pressing the button right under the grip. If you want to go really small with regards to lenses, you can get the "lens cap lens" when it comes back in stock. http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-BCL-15.../dp/B009DL0LOW

 

[sygyzy]

What's the deal with the G5? I think it's $400 with kit right now and on one site, someone was comparing it to the OM-D. They didn't claim it was the same but said it was just a stop away and obviously a lot cheaper. Is the G5 the newer version of the G3?

GH2 is on sale today too. I am not sure but IIRC it's the bigger m43 Panasonic camera that was hacked to produce some crazy video capabilities.

My LX7 and Nikon 1 V1 are both arriving on Wednesday!

 

[blastingcap]

G5 is the new G3, but the sensor has been upgraded somewhat in the G5 so that it has better dynamic range at base ISO while retaining more or less the same high-ISO performance. The G5 is on par with consumer-grade Canon APS-C DSLRs in dynamic range and about a stop behind in low-light performance, while keeping size and weight down. The mainline G series like the G3 and G5 also come with electronic viewfinders to help you focus on things even in bright light or with moving objects. At $400 with kit lens it wouldn't be a bad deal at all.

If you already have a LX7 and V1 I'm not sure why you'd need a G5. The LX7 has a great lens with good sensor and is comparable to the Sony RX-100 which has a great sensor and good lens; in fact those two factors kind of cancel each other out so you get more or less the same performance out of both of them in most situations. The V1 has speed, speed, speed, and PDAF with swappable lenses. Slap the telephoto zoom on that and it will do fine in daytime shots of your kids playing sports or whatever, or even find use as a portrait lens at max focal length, wide open aperture.

And yes, people have hacked the Panasonic m43 cameras to death, even the low-end ones in some cases, to boost the already-good video capability to an even higher level.

 

[sygyzy]

Oh, I wasn't considering the G5, I was just asking about it. I do realize that I have redundancy in my setup. I am kind of addicted to cameras though.

In other good news (to me), the E-PL5, E-PM2, and the OM-D E-5 all have price drops! $100 for the first two and $50 for the latter.

 

[sygyzy]

My LX7 arrived yesterday and it's great. I already have the retrracting cover on it and ordered a Gordy's wrist strap and a glass screen cover. One thing that is weird is the write times seem really slow. I have a "high end" (read: expensive) name brand class 10 card in there and there's a 2 second delay between shots. No, it's not the auto focus - it's actually writing.

 

[blastingcap]

Class doesn't mean squat. I have some Class 6 30MB/s Sandisk Extremes that would run circles around the worst Class 10 cards, some which don't even meet spec and are less than 10 MB/s read/write. Companies cheat more on write speeds so run a CrystalDiskMark scan on those. Look at the sequential read/write speed, that will tell you what you really wanna know. 30 MB/S is the minimum for what I'd consider "fast" these days for a DSLR. For a LX7 20 MB/s will be more than enough.


Also, MANY cards are counterfeits these days, gotta buy them brand new from authorized resellers, meaning Amazon.com LLC, not "fulfilled by" Amazon which isn't the same. B&H, Adorama, Buydig are also legit sellers.


Lastly, all flash gets worse performance as times goes on, due to how flash memory works. No way to undo that except a full-on secure erase.

 

[sygyzy]

I tested it as:

Read: 19.49 MB/s
Write: 12.48 MB/s

My new Sandisk 30MB/s Class 10 card gets pretty much the exact same numbers.

 

[sygyzy]

Blasting, can you post a review of the RX100?

 

[Gooberlx2]

I tested it as:

Read: 19.49 MB/s
Write: 12.48 MB/s

My new Sandisk 30MB/s Class 10 card gets pretty much the exact same numbers.

Did you test in a reader or in camera via USB? Crappy, slow readers can be a bottleneck as well. Even the camera's USB2 (I'm guessing) interface could be a bottleneck if it's shitty.

 

[sygyzy]

I tested in a USB (2?) reader. It's definitely not a USB3 and probably not a USB 1.1 so probably 2.

 

[blastingcap]

I tested it as:

Read: 19.49 MB/s
Write: 12.48 MB/s

My new Sandisk 30MB/s Class 10 card gets pretty much the exact same numbers.

Your 30MB/s should not be getting 12.48 MB/s, even if it's been used and even on a USB 2.0 reader (unless the reader is absolutely screwy). Chances are you have a counterfeit. Where exactly did you purchase the card from? I've heard that about 1 out of 3 Sandisks is fake.

I haven't used the RX100 enough to post a review, maybe after I go out with it some, but I was sick last weekend and have been busy during the workweek. I took a few shots of my gf cooking and reading and a few test shots to gauge how much bokeh I can get out of it and if there is too much distortion or decentering. So far I'm impressed enough to know I will keep it. I ordered a Carryspeed MagFilter to go with it so I can use my polarizer and ND filters with it.

 

[sygyzy]

Using a different reader and different computer. Same results. I am pretty sure it's not counterfeit. I bought it about a month ago from Amazon directly. Sandisk is the manufacturer and Amazon was the vendor. No third party. Packed in Amazon's frustration free packaging.

 

[blastingcap]

OK if it was in Amazon FF shipped and sold by Amazon.com it is less likely to be fake. But not zero chance.. there was an infamous case a few years back where Costco was selling fake Sandisks. Yup, fakes even got into the legit channels somehow.

Do you have a model number for that card?

 

[sygyzy]

Using a different reader and different computer. Same results. I am pretty sure it's not counterfeit. I bought it about a month ago from Amazon directly. Sandisk is the manufacturer and Amazon was the vendor. No third party. Packed in Amazon's frustration free packaging.

According to other benchmarks posted on Amazon, my numbers are exactly on par with USB 2.0 readers. If you move to a USB 3.0 reader, you jump to 46 MB/s which is over double.

The question is, why is 20MB/s not sufficient for the LX7. Why does it write so slow?

Edit: Sorry, not sure why I quoted myself.

Here's the exact card on Amazon. It seems like my results are exactly on par with other customers. I should have heeded the reviews but I didn't pay them any attention since I am a fan of SanDisk. Now, I have to determine who has a faster writing card ...

 

[blastingcap]

Ah I see, Sandisk advertises this as 20 MB/s and then a vague "write speed slower." Well now you know how slow that means... yeah the other reviewers got around the same speeds you got as well. Bummer.

The differential jump probably has something to do with UHS-1 as well; most USB 2.0 readers can't do UHS-1, but many (most? all?) USB 3.0 readers can.

Anyway it seems that RAW takes a long time to write for the LX7 no matter how fast your card is (though if the card is slow that doesn't help). If you're shooting RAW or RAW+JPG, expect to wait:

"The good news: the DMC-LX7 shoots incredibly quickly in burst mode, with a fairly large amount of buffer memory. At the slower speeds, the camera will just slow down when you reach the above limits (a little bit for JPEGs, more for RAW). At 11 frames/second, the camera will stop shooting when the twelve shot burst is done. The LCD keeps up with the action, so tracking a moving subject shouldn't be a challenge.

The bad news: expect long write times if you're shooting RAW. For both of the speeds I tested, it took over thirty seconds for the LX7 to save its images to my very fast UHS-I SDHC card. During that time you can't take another high speed burst or enter playback mode."

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_lx7-review?page=0,2

If it is any consolation, the RX100 slows down with RAW or RAW+JPG as well. There was a thread at DPR where someone upgraded their card to some crazy 95 MB/s card and they couldn't get the RX100 to go any faster. I suspect the same thing is going on with your LX7.

According to other benchmarks posted on Amazon, my numbers are exactly on par with USB 2.0 readers. If you move to a USB 3.0 reader, you jump to 46 MB/s which is over double.

The question is, why is 20MB/s not sufficient for the LX7. Why does it write so slow?

Edit: Sorry, not sure why I quoted myself.

Here's the exact card on Amazon. It seems like my results are exactly on par with other customers. I should have heeded the reviews but I didn't pay them any attention since I am a fan of SanDisk. Now, I have to determine who has a faster writing card ...

 

[sygyzy]

You're totally right, again. I remember I was shooting JPG + RAW and that's probably why it's so slow. I will reserve that for cases where I really care about having the RAW files. Other times, like street photography, I am going to take that off and just do JPG.

 

[Throckmorton]

Get PNY SD cards. They're made in Korea (not China like Sandisk) and actually tell you what the write speed is.

 

[blastingcap]

Get PNY SD cards. They're made in Korea (not China like Sandisk) and actually tell you what the write speed is.

I object to this. A lot of things are made in China, good and bad. iPhone/Pad/Pods are not shoddily built in China. Sandisk has the best rep in the business. If you don't want to buy Sandisk then the other good option is Lexar (subsidiary of Micron, a USA company, if that matters to you). After that it's arguable... Transcend maybe?

Sandisk Extreme series is what I have always used ever since I got more informed about flash memory, and Sandisk advertises its read AND write speeds for those. For instance, 45 MB/s read and write: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007M54E08 I have used their Extreme III 20 MB/s and Extreme III (HD) 30 MB/s for years without any data corruption or trouble.

They also have the Extreme Pro cards but I think they are too overpriced. Maybe get them next year. Remember, this is tech... it will depreciate quickly.

 

[Throckmorton]

I object to this. A lot of things are made in China, good and bad. iPhone/Pad/Pods are not shoddily built in China. Sandisk has the best rep in the business. If you don't want to buy Sandisk then the other good option is Lexar (subsidiary of Micron, a USA company, if that matters to you). After that it's arguable... Transcend maybe?

Sandisk Extreme series is what I have always used ever since I got more informed about flash memory, and Sandisk advertises its read AND write speeds for those. For instance, 45 MB/s read and write: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007M54E08 I have used their Extreme III 20 MB/s and Extreme III (HD) 30 MB/s for years without any data corruption or trouble.

They also have the Extreme Pro cards but I think they are too overpriced. Maybe get them next year. Remember, this is tech... it will depreciate quickly.

What are you talking about? It's a pretty simple choice. Either support China, knowing your Sandisk card is probably made by poorly treated workers, or buy PNY and support Korea, knowing your card was made in a democracy... And the PNY has an actual speed rating not "20mb/sec read and write speed is lower"

 

[blastingcap]

What are you talking about? It's a pretty simple choice. Either support China, knowing your Sandisk card is probably made by poorly treated workers, or buy PNY and support Korea, knowing your card was made in a democracy... And the PNY has an actual speed rating not "20mb/sec read and write speed is lower"

What are YOU talking about? We were talking about card speeds, and you dragged politics into this discussion due to your own personal biases without even knowing what the conditions are like in Sandisk/Toshiba plants vs PNY.... Btw, does PNY even make their own flash? I doubt it. There are very, very few companies that physically make flash memory, and to the best of my knowledge, PNY is not one of them. Like Patriot/Kingston/etc., PNY probably sources flash from a variety of companies, such as *gasp* companies like Sandisk/Toshiba.

What I find especially hilarious is that you continue to pimp for PNY rather than Lexar, which is a USA company and which was my recommendation as an alternative to Sandisk. But really, there is a Politics and News forum here if you want to rant on China. Most people just want to get good quality at good prices.

 

[sygyzy]

Hey guys, please don't argue. What I like about the digital camera forum is we have been really civilized. Let's just discuss cameras, cool?

Ok back on topic.

SD Cards - It seems like in terms of popularity and Amazon rankings, the Transcend cards are the way to go. They are cheaper than their equivalent Sandisk counterparts. Their read speeds are identical but they write about 40% faster! Lexars are pretty pricey. I have their products and would support them except I haven't seen any benchmarks posted.

Speaking of, this famous photographer posted this very extensive guide of CompactFlash (CF) card speeds many years ago. Has anyone done something similar, recently, for SD cards?

Olympus M43 Price Drops - I'll probably post a longer version of this question in the Nikon 1 V1 thread. I received mine yesterday and while I like most of it, I started questioning my purchase. I paid $450 for the kit with 10-30 and 30-110mm. I thought the 30-110 zoom was worth the extra price since that lens goes for more sold separately. Going into this, I was viewing it as the V1 is a helluva camera for the ("cheap") price it currently is at. The problem is it fills my "not compact, not pocket-able, MILC" spot which I really want for M43. I plan on getting a OM-D and if I did, I now have two lens systems. Yes, I knew this going in. With the current price drops, would it make sense to return the V1 and get a E-PL5 or E-PM2 as my starter, or backup, M43 then later get the OM-D E-5 or its successor? I am already at $450 with the V1 and the PM2 I think is $500 (albeit with one lens instead of two).

I am quite happy with the V1 and it clearly can produce excellent shots as evidenced on the internet. I already have the 18.5mm on my wishlist but I have to stop myself because I do I really want to invest in the 1 system?

 

[AkumaX]

SD Cards - It seems like in terms of popularity and Amazon rankings, the Transcend cards are the way to go. They are cheaper than their equivalent Sandisk counterparts. Their read speeds are identical but they write about 40% faster! Lexars are pretty pricey. I have their products and would support them except I haven't seen any benchmarks posted.

Source. *edit* I see you got the Ultra - see response below