Next-Gen Velociraptors

[imported_wired247]

I've been doing some searching on google but I haven't heard (and couldn't find) anything about the next iteration of velociraptors. I assume they will be putting out higher density platters eventually, but when?

 

[Idontcare]

Depending on their internal marketing projections they may be winding down the raptor enthusiast line as they prioritize resources to prepare for a transition to SSD technology for the consumer segment that raptors are targeted.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/0...aptor-to-take-on-ssds/

Apparently, they're uping the RPMs too though I've not heard if/when these are actually coming out.

 

[Idontcare]

20k rpm drives don't exist even in the super lucrative SAS enterprise markets. They sure as hell aren't going to be invented on the R&D budget afforded the raptor team to create products that service the much lower volume market segment which raptor intersects.

That would be like Toshiba engineers being resourced to invent cold-fusion solely to create laptops with longer effective battery life.

The scope of the job and its applicability to vastly larger markets simply have no comparison.

Raptor will be 15k rpm if and when it ever makes the transition from one prior existing enterprise spindle technology (10krpm) to another existing enterprise spindle technology (15krpm). But 20k rpm isn't about to created just so raptors can leapfrog the 15k iteration.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
20k rpm drives don't exist even in the super lucrative SAS enterprise markets. They sure as hell aren't going to be invented on the R&D budget afforded the raptor team to create products that service the much lower volume market segment which raptor intersects.

That would be like Toshiba engineers being resourced to invent cold-fusion solely to create laptops with longer effective battery life.

The scope of the job and its applicability to vastly larger markets simply have no comparison.

Raptor will be 15k rpm if and when it ever makes the transition from one prior existing enterprise spindle technology (10krpm) to another existing enterprise spindle technology (15krpm). But 20k rpm isn't about to created just so raptors can leapfrog the 15k iteration.

This. I can maybe see a migration to 15K but currently that would require a capacity hit. The biggest 15K 2.5" is still 147 GB.

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-...s/savvio/savvio_15k.2/

Viper GTS

 

[Blain]

WD doesn't normally tip it's hand about new products.
They operate much differently than MS, Intel or AMD. :laugh:

 

[imported_wired247]

I feel that the progression of the storage market is not moving THAT quickly to SSD... I mean SSDs are still like this (roughly speaking):

Select 2 options:

1) High speed
2) More than 80GB storage
3) Affordable


Not to mention the caching / stuttering problems, defrag issue, degradation worries, etc.

I am willing to bet we'll see at least one or two more generations of high performance spindle HDDs before the move to SSD. Just keeping my eyes peeled for when that might be.

 

[sxr7171]

Most people use the Raptor for an OS drive. Even the 72GB was more than enough to hold 3 OSes. A 32GB SLC SSD is around $250 now and it spanks the Raptor. Sure storage will be magnetic drive based for a few years but people are putting their large storage on home servers and NAS devices these days. The only other market for the Raptor is game data storage and since that's more a read thing than a write thing even the cheap MLC SSDs can be used, if not now maybe in 6 months with a controller optimized for pure read with maybe a write here and there for config or save data. Most games do those writes on the OS drive anyway.

So $250 for a SLC SSD or $400 for the ultimate kick-ass X25-E for OS and $300 256GB MLC SSD for the games and you can stay completely under SSD with far better than Raptor performance. In a year watch those numbers become half. No point dickering around with 20,000 RPM mechanical drives anymore.

You want storage for movies and video then any old 1TB, 1.5TB, or 2TB drive ecopower or not will more than handle it.

 

[ochadd]

I can't see WD putting major R&D resources into a drive that will likely be forced down in price 40% or more in the very near future. As others have stated in this thread, people were willing to pay big bucks for the 36 and 74GB raptors and they were tiny even then.

Once internal RAID SLC drives get down to consumer drive prices the raptor will have a problem finding a niche on the desktop. There will be no performance area where it can lead.

 

[Blain]

VelociRaptors use 2.5" platters.
There's plenty of room for growth there.

VelociRaptor prices haven't been pushed to "commodity" status just yet.

 

[ochadd]

Originally posted by: Blain
VelociRaptors use 2.5" platters.
There's planty of room for growth there.

VelociRaptor prices haven't been pushed to "commodity" status just yet.

Velociraptors are still priced according to their ability to bitch slap the ordinary device. Most people who buy raptors could care less if they are 150 or 300 gig. As long as the device is large enough to hold the OS, apps, and games it's big enough.

If you are considering a Z06 Corvette for $80k, cars in the $100k range are likely on the table as well. Enthusiasts are a funny bunch. $20k difference is allot of scratch but if you are spending $80k already...

Based on performance alone a difference of $100 or even $200 means very little. For storage devices that buys you a performance difference larger than any car analogy assuming it's large "enough."

 

[JASTECH]

Those 160GB SSD's will make a big dent once the price comes down to our level as Blain so nicely put it. Here my 3 new Hitachi 147GB U320 15k drives showed up on my door step yesterday. Kinda seem like I wasted money but then again it has the spped and durability for now that I need.

Thanks, JASTECH

 

[conlan]

I contacted WD regarding the 15k Raptor rumors a couple month ago. As expected, they would neither confirm or deny as per company policy.

I would love to see a 15K VelociRaptor, even though there are 15K SAS drives, The SAS controllers are generally more expensive than SATA controllers.

 

[MichaelD]

I fondly remember playing around with 3, 18GB, 15K rpm SCSI drives in RAID0 years back. Man, was that a fast setup! :Q Was it worth the money? Hell no. But watching XP load in about 10 seconds is a feat that you just can't put a price on, you know?

I have a 150GB VRaptor for my OS/Games and a big drive for storage; I feel it's the best of both worlds...these days, anyway.

SSDs are too new, too expensive and too unproven at this point for me. For me, they aren't worth the investment at this time.

I would love to see a 15K Raptor. I'd buy one before I'd buy an SSD, knowing the SSD would spank it. I'd be "sure" the Raptor would be running a year from now. Not so sure about that SSD...degrading performance over time, etc.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I fondly remember playing around with 3, 18GB, 15K rpm SCSI drives in RAID0 years back. Man, was that a fast setup! :Q Was it worth the money? Hell no. But watching XP load in about 10 seconds is a feat that you just can't put a price on, you know?

I have a 150GB VRaptor for my OS/Games and a big drive for storage; I feel it's the best of both worlds...these days, anyway.

SSDs are too new, too expensive and too unproven at this point for me. For me, they aren't worth the investment at this time.

I would love to see a 15K Raptor. I'd buy one before I'd buy an SSD, knowing the SSD would spank it. I'd be "sure" the Raptor would be running a year from now. Not so sure about that SSD...degrading performance over time, etc.

What was your previous hard drive for your OS/Games before the 150 GB VRaptor?

 

[taltamir]

didn't we already have this thread last month?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=83&threadid=2277933

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I fondly remember playing around with 3, 18GB, 15K rpm SCSI drives in RAID0 years back. Man, was that a fast setup! :Q Was it worth the money? Hell no. But watching XP load in about 10 seconds is a feat that you just can't put a price on, you know?

I have a 150GB VRaptor for my OS/Games and a big drive for storage; I feel it's the best of both worlds...these days, anyway.

SSDs are too new, too expensive and too unproven at this point for me. For me, they aren't worth the investment at this time.

I would love to see a 15K Raptor. I'd buy one before I'd buy an SSD, knowing the SSD would spank it. I'd be "sure" the Raptor would be running a year from now. Not so sure about that SSD...degrading performance over time, etc.

What was your previous hard drive for your OS/Games before the 150 GB VRaptor?

It was a 320GB Seagate SATA drive (7200.10 model). I can honestly say that the difference is VERY obvious. Every "test" from OS load times to game level load times to file searches, the VRaptor is a fast little drive. That said, I erase Temp Internet Files/Defrag/etc a couple times a week. I keep it clean so it stays fast.

I can say this much: If you put a VRaptor on any decent system (2GHz CPU/1GB RAM) and do a CLEAN install of the OS, it will fly. You just can't beat rotational speed when it comes to "this system feels fast" measurement.

The HD is by far the slowest component in the system. A few milliseconds here or there (faster RAM/faster bus) you won't see. But when you're talking 33% faster rate (7200 vs. 10k rpm) getting the program data into the system to begin with, THAT you will see. Gotta load from scratch to really appreciate it though.

 

[taltamir]

to echo my previous sentiment, if there was one in development, they would have axed it, because it simply cannot compete with new gen SSD. Intel will transition to 32nm SSD tech late 09, and that will give more space at lower costs, and speed and cost are constantly improvement due to controller design and competition.

 

[capeconsultant]

Personally, I think WD would be completely insane to make a 15K Raptor. My bet is that VERY soon, you will see WD enter SSD in a BIG FAT HUGE way. They are not stupid, and can certainly see the writing on the wall. They would be a genius to get to SSD before Seagate, Hitatchi, etc, at least into the consumer arena.

Nope, I think we are going to be bowled over soon. The first big HDD company that seriously gets into the SSD arena will have the "first in" advantage, which can be very valuable. GO GO GO WD! Spank that pesky company that begins with Sea and ends with gate!

 

[TC91]

how long did wd previously take between each raptor drive?

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: TC91
how long did wd previously take between each raptor drive?

Google

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: TC91
how long did wd previously take between each raptor drive?

Too long... Far too long... The 32 to 74 to 150 wasn't to bad, and I am guessing the 300 took longer because they shrunk it down to 2.5" form factor. But keep in mind, 10,000 RPM has always been the spindle speed for them, so turning that up to 15,000 when they currently have no drive at those spindle speeds yets means they would have to redesign the drive completely with new parts capable of the tolerances required - It will be a while before we will see a 15K drive from WD.

 

[imported_wired247]

Originally posted by: taltamir
didn't we already have this thread last month?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=83&threadid=2277933

Sorry, I searched, but I'm not exactly psychic. When I see thread title like "new platter drive(Velociraptor)" how am I supposed to know they aren't talking about CURRENT generation velociraptors?

 

[cm123]

Would not be at all surprised to see WD V-Raptor become SSD based...

No remember, however did see WD talk about that once at event and the comments made on one of the review sites, just no remember which site -

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: MichaelD

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I fondly remember playing around with 3, 18GB, 15K rpm SCSI drives in RAID0 years back. Man, was that a fast setup! :Q Was it worth the money? Hell no. But watching XP load in about 10 seconds is a feat that you just can't put a price on, you know?

I have a 150GB VRaptor for my OS/Games and a big drive for storage; I feel it's the best of both worlds...these days, anyway.

SSDs are too new, too expensive and too unproven at this point for me. For me, they aren't worth the investment at this time.

I would love to see a 15K Raptor. I'd buy one before I'd buy an SSD, knowing the SSD would spank it. I'd be "sure" the Raptor would be running a year from now. Not so sure about that SSD...degrading performance over time, etc.

What was your previous hard drive for your OS/Games before the 150 GB VRaptor?

It was a 320GB Seagate SATA drive (7200.10 model). I can honestly say that the difference is VERY obvious. Every "test" from OS load times to game level load times to file searches, the VRaptor is a fast little drive. That said, I erase Temp Internet Files/Defrag/etc a couple times a week. I keep it clean so it stays fast.

I can say this much: If you put a VRaptor on any decent system (2GHz CPU/1GB RAM) and do a CLEAN install of the OS, it will fly. You just can't beat rotational speed when it comes to "this system feels fast" measurement.

The HD is by far the slowest component in the system. A few milliseconds here or there (faster RAM/faster bus) you won't see. But when you're talking 33% faster rate (7200 vs. 10k rpm) getting the program data into the system to begin with, THAT you will see. Gotta load from scratch to really appreciate it though.

I fully agree. Mainly asking to see if you went from a Raptor to a VRaptor. I currently have a 150 GB Raptor but doubt it would be worth upgrading.