NFL 2023 Season

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RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,054
562
126
I guess you don't think Brock, the clear and deserving favorite, should be MVP then, right? Because pass attempts are so important, and Brock is 21st in this category.
Are you this dense? Look at yards per attempt and try to form a coherent argument.
You are bad at this.

And since you are so bad at this, the answer was 7, Allen completed 7 of 15 passes and his team dominated. MVP MVP MVP
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,924
5,795
126
I do think Josh Allen deserves to be in the conversation, but the Bills record is going to hold him back. If the Bills run the table, why wouldn't he be in the conversation? Obviously some of this is "political." Hurts is having a solid campaign, but he was the outright favorite 3 weeks ago when the Eagles were 10-1. 2 bad losses later, he's not looking so hot.
This basically sums it up.

They aren't even in the playoffs as of right now. No QB outside of the playoffs should be in the discussion for MVP of the league. I don't even think a QB on a wild card playoff team should be in the discussion.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
If you're implying that Allen is 35% more "valuable" than Purdy based on his % of the team's offensive TDs, well then I think you're wrong.

Not at all. It was yet another way to look at just how much the Bills need Allen. If Kyle Allen (their backup) had to play? I wouldn't trust them to get a single win without games like yesterday, where the defense dominated and the RB stole the show.

Personally, my #1 and #2 are Purdy and McCaffrey, even though they're on the same team. I think it sucks that CMC probably has no chance at it. But for #3? Yeah, I might put Allen there.
 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
Are you this dense? Look at yards per attempt and try to form a coherent argument.
You are bad at this.

And since you are so bad at this, the answer was 7, Allen completed 7 of 15 passes and his team dominated. MVP MVP MVP

Do you even understand the words you're using? Come back when you've completed the third grade, boy.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,212
5,071
146
holy crap what a comeback by Seahawks!111!
Capped off by a game ending flying interception by Julian Love.
 
Last edited:

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,318
2,344
136
Not at all. It was yet another way to look at just how much the Bills need Allen. If Kyle Allen (their backup) had to play? I wouldn't trust them to get a single win without games like yesterday, where the defense dominated and the RB stole the show.

Personally, my #1 and #2 are Purdy and McCaffrey, even though they're on the same team. I think it sucks that CMC probably has no chance at it. But for #3? Yeah, I might put Allen there.
LOL QB1 is highly important to almost all NFL teams. And esp. if you're talking about a legit star QB like Josh Allen. He's not replaceable, and salary cap economics alone makes it very difficult for most teams to field a competent backup. Honestly, I've never quite figured out why QB2 usually sucks so badly, but once in a while you see a Jake Browning play well so it's certainly possible. (And rarely, the backup permanently earns the starting job.) I mean, please don't be like that clown in the previous NFL thread that literally said after the last Super Bowl that the Chiefs would have not been successful without Patrick Mahomes.

Like I said, Allen should be in the conversation. But since team record is such a big part of the voting, you look like a biased homer if you think he should be #3. If you want to say he's #3 if we ignore team record, then say that. But using an obscure scoring stat does not help make your case. I mean, should I say that Jalen Hurts accounts for 80% of his team's offensive TDs, and leads a 10-4 team so he should also be in the "most valuable" conversation NOW? Hell no, that would be crazy talk.

As of right now, I'd say there are at least 2 other QBs (not named Brock Purdy) that have just as good an MVP case as Josh Allen:
Dak Prescott (I know, don't laugh)
Tua
Lamar Jackson
Patrick Mahomes

I've listed 4, but 2 is the floor because below Purdy, there just isn't a clear standout. Note Jared Goff would make it 5, but I'll let @KMFJD make that case.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,655
43,847
136
Lion's spanked the Bronco's and are 10-4 now, defence is still shaky but they get CJGJ back shortly and Houston is also almost there
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
I guess you don't think Brock, the clear and deserving favorite, should be MVP then, right? Because pass attempts are so important, and Brock is 21st in this category.

I'll toss in!

No, I don't think Brock should be MVP. I think McCaffrey is the clear favorite right now. Remember when not-QBs used to be allowed to be MVP? Like, if the record doesn't actually matter and it's simply the "most valuable person on the team" (never mind that, it's actually for the league, not the team), then it's clearly McCaffrey.

I like Brock, but McCaffrey is in another world from anyone else in the league right now.

To make an argument for Josh Allen, which is sad and hilarious, you'd have to go ahead and accept that winning games doesn't matter so much, so long as you just account for 80% of your particular team's points. Never mind the league thing, you just need to be the most valuable on your underperforming team. Josh Allen is great, but underperforming teams are going to generally be considered the responsibility of the QB, however fair or not. Piles of turnovers also don't help.

lol--if the best player in the league on a mediocre team (or terrible team) was a good argument for MVP, then Barry Sanders deserves about 6 trophies. But I don't think we're going to be going there. Josh Allen really isn't the best in the league right now.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
Are you this dense? Look at yards per attempt and try to form a coherent argument.
You are bad at this.

And since you are so bad at this, the answer was 7, Allen completed 7 of 15 passes and his team dominated. MVP MVP MVP

Purdy has amazing yards per attempt...because McCaffrey (and Deebo). The dude takes a a 4 yard chuck and turns it into 25+ due to his awesomeness.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Purdy has amazing yards per attempt...because McCaffrey (and Deebo). The dude takes a a 4 yard chuck and turns it into 25+ due to his awesomeness.
I don't think any of his predecessors of being Kyle's triggerman would have been as effective. Not Kirk or Jimmy.
 
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RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,054
562
126
Purdy has amazing yards per attempt...because McCaffrey (and Deebo). The dude takes a a 4 yard chuck and turns it into 25+ due to his awesomeness.
Yes, however he ranks #1 in deep balls completed and just barely below half at air yards (#18). So while yes, his offensive weapons are crazy YAC'ers, he also throws it down field. This isn't Jimmie G where he's simply handing it off, doing screen passes or check downs.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Yes, however he ranks #1 in deep balls completed and just barely below half at air yards (#18). So while yes, his offensive weapons are crazy YAC'ers, he also throws it down field. This isn't Jimmie G where he's simply handing it off, doing screen passes or check downs.
Jimmy G only could attack the middle of the field. Kyle had to strain the brain to keep designing plays for Jimmy.

 
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JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
But since team record is such a big part of the voting, you look like a biased homer if you think he should be #3. If you want to say he's #3 if we ignore team record, then say that.
No, I don't mean regardless of team record. I mean Allen compares favorably with the QBs that aren't Purdy. Look at Lamar, the current #2 in Vegas odds. He's only 4 turnovers behind Allen, while also being 15 TDs behind. He's also behind in total yards, both passing and rushing TDs obviously, ESPN's QBR, passing success rate, and game winning drives. But because his defense hasn't failed him time and time again, he has a good record.

I will say, though, that the MVP should not come from a team that misses playoffs, so even if Allen completely balls out for the rest of the season, with Buffalo finishing 11-6, if the Bills miss, so should he. Though I believe there is only one scenario where Buffalo misses the playoffs while winning out (Jags, Colts, Bengals all win out, Browns win both non-Bengals games, Dolphins win both non-Bills games).
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
As of right now, I'd say there are at least 2 other QBs (not named Brock Purdy) that have just as good an MVP case as Josh Allen:
Dak Prescott (I know, don't laugh)
Tua
Lamar Jackson
Patrick Mahomes
Oh, and I'll also point out that Allen is 3-0 against the QBs on your list this season.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,924
5,795
126
No, I don't mean regardless of team record. I mean Allen compares favorably with the QBs that aren't Purdy. Look at Lamar, the current #2 in Vegas odds. He's only 4 turnovers behind Allen, while also being 15 TDs behind. He's also behind in total yards, both passing and rushing TDs obviously, ESPN's QBR, passing success rate, and game winning drives. But because his defense hasn't failed him time and time again, he has a good record.
Hmm you conveniently left out one minor detail that he is the QB on a 11-3 team that is leading the AFC right now.

If you have watched Lamar this season, you'd know that he is definitely the reason the offense is scoring as many points as they are to be able to put them in a position to win those games. Like him alone, being able to extend plays where any other QB would have taken a sack or thrown the ball away, and then making positive yards out of it. It happens multiple times a game and often in pretty big time situations.

MVP does not mean "best measurable stats" which seems to be what you keep on going back to. I'd say it is that as well as just the eye test in what he does to help his team win. It's probably more of the latter, but usually they do go somewhat hand in hand.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
Like him alone, being able to extend plays where any other QB would have taken a sack or thrown the ball away, and then making positive yards out of it. It happens multiple times a game and often in pretty big time situations.

Literally the exact same case is seen time and time again with Allen. That's an argument Lamar has against, say, Dak, but not Allen. And Allen has taken fewer sacks than Lamar for this very reason.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Literally the exact same case is seen time and time again with Allen. That's an argument Lamar has against, say, Dak, but not Allen. And Allen has taken fewer sacks than Lamar for this very reason.
We get it, Josh's dad, Josh needs a pacifier for the picks that helped his team lose a couple games.
 
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RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,054
562
126
Literally the exact same case is seen time and time again with Allen. That's an argument Lamar has against, say, Dak, but not Allen. And Allen has taken fewer sacks than Lamar for this very reason.
...
Bills 8-6
Ravens 11-3, also Ravens lost Mark Andrews (all Pro-TE) and down two starting RB's.
 
Reactions: manly

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
We get it, Josh's dad, Josh needs a pacifier for the picks that helped his team lose a couple games.

Don't think we all have forgotten about your secret man crush on Josh. I'm just voicing what your innermost desires are whispering.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,924
5,795
126
Literally the exact same case is seen time and time again with Allen. That's an argument Lamar has against, say, Dak, but not Allen. And Allen has taken fewer sacks than Lamar for this very reason.
I said it's the reason the Ravens are 11-3 because of him doing that. I never said Allen can't do that, but their record is not in the same hemisphere as the Ravens so it's kind of moot if he "can do that" but it's not resulting in them winning their division or being in the playoffs.

I've also seen games that were probably lost specifically because of Allen throwing a billion picks that were just awful throws. I can't remember exactly which one it was this year but it was a prime time game where he had like 4 picks I think and at least 3 of them were just bone headed plays on his part.

Like I get it. Allen is an upper QB in this league. He's awesome. However he should not be in the discussion for MVP as everything currently stands in the league, regardless of his numbers. His team is on the outside looking in for a wild card. No one on any of those teams should be in the discussion for MVP right now.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,030
752
136
but it's not resulting in them winning their division or being in the playoffs.
Yet. It's a very real possibility that the Bills win the division. They need Miami to lose one more than Buffalo in the next two weeks and then week 18 will be for the division. Miami has to face Dallas and Baltimore, while Buffalo is up against the Chargers and Patriots.

And like I already said, if they miss the playoffs, it doesn't matter. Allen could get 13 TDs in the final 3 games to hit 50, but if the Bills don't make it, then what's the point? Every fan anywhere would take a Super Bowl win over MVP. Especially fans of teams that have exactly 0 Super Bowls.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Don't think we all have forgotten about your secret man crush on Josh. I'm just voicing what your innermost desires are whispering.
Nah, I liketh Mahomes more. I only select the most refined of diamonds. Josh is only...industrial grade. Just like Vegeta. He has the resume, but does dumb shit to make sure he loses(i.e Freiza blows up the planet because V wanted to savor the moment).

And of course, there's Lord Burrow and his Faux Burrow stand in.

Actually, I have nostalgia for 1999 Trent Green...the first GOOD QB I saw as a kid...I didn't know Washington games were on FOX....
 
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