NFL 2023 Season

[manly]

No, I don't mean regardless of team record. I mean Allen compares favorably with the QBs that aren't Purdy. Look at Lamar, the current #2 in Vegas odds. He's only 4 turnovers behind Allen, while also being 15 TDs behind. He's also behind in total yards, both passing and rushing TDs obviously, ESPN's QBR, passing success rate, and game winning drives. But because his defense hasn't failed him time and time again, he has a good record.

I will say, though, that the MVP should not come from a team that misses playoffs, so even if Allen completely balls out for the rest of the season, with Buffalo finishing 11-6, if the Bills miss, so should he. Though I believe there is only one scenario where Buffalo misses the playoffs while winning out (Jags, Colts, Bengals all win out, Browns win both non-Bengals games, Dolphins win both non-Bills games).

In other words, you want to ignore team record while claiming that you don't. You're right about Lamar's stats not impressing, and that's the whole point of this conversation. (I'd slot both Dak and Tua above him TBH.) purbeast0 is also right that you can't just eyeball stats and say who deserves what.

The rest of us are talking about how the MVP award is voted for (in both the NFL and NBA), not how it should be interpreted in an alternate universe. Personally I don't think only division winners should be considered for the award, but it shouldn't be from a team that just sneaks into the playoffs. I realize that doesn't truly have anything to do with the player's performance but that's just the setup we have.

I don't mind using h2h record as a "tiebreaker" if it came down to that, but I don't think that it is a primary consideration.

At any rate, all this is academic unless the Niners and Purdy falter. I guess if anyone wants to be salty, it could be CMC fanboys and Olivia Culpo.

Yet. It's a very real possibility that the Bills win the division. They need Miami to lose one more than Buffalo in the next two weeks and then week 18 will be for the division. Miami has to face Dallas and Baltimore, while Buffalo is up against the Chargers and Patriots.

And like I already said, if they miss the playoffs, it doesn't matter. Allen could get 13 TDs in the final 3 games to hit 50, but if the Bills don't make it, then what's the point? Every fan anywhere would take a Super Bowl win over MVP. Especially fans of teams that have exactly 0 Super Bowls.

It doesn't matter, but I'm gonna get salty about it in week 15 anyway?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10101746-nfl-mvp-race-2023-24-latest-predictions-after-updated-odds-entering-week-16

Note that Josh Allen is currently 6th in Vegas odds. So how is he not in the conversation?

 

[Saylick]

Yes, however he ranks #1 in deep balls completed and just barely below half at air yards (#18). So while yes, his offensive weapons are crazy YAC'ers, he also throws it down field. This isn't Jimmie G where he's simply handing it off, doing screen passes or check downs.

Jimmy G only could attack the middle of the field. Kyle had to strain the brain to keep designing plays for Jimmy.

Which Of The Final Four QBs Has The Best Defensive Matchup?

We look at the similarities between where Mahomes gets his completions and where the Bengals tend to allow them, consider how Burrow conquered the deep out, ponder where Matthew Stafford should attack the 49ers defense along with the area he should probably avoid, and marvel at Jimmy Garoppolo’s...

fivethirtyeight.com

I'd add too that Purdy's pocket awareness is just a whole 'nother level over Jimmy. There's been so many drives that were extended due to Purdy having a much better sense of the pressure and processing it quickly that would have been either a punt, sack, or pick with Jimmy under the gun. Having monster offensive weapons don't mean much if you can't even get the ball into their hands. Purdy has demonstrated time and time again that he can accurately and reliably push the ball downfield right into the hands of the playmakers.

I think there is some truth to calling Purdy a system QB, but one has to give credit where it's due because of what he does to enable that system. At the end of the day, every position has responsibilities and assignments within the team's system. How well a player executes under it is entirely on them, and Purdy has been executing at an incredibly high level that we haven't seen in the Niners franchise in years.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'd add too that Purdy's pocket awareness is just a whole 'nother level over Jimmy. There's been so many drives that were extended due to Purdy having a much better sense of the pressure and processing it quickly that would have been either a punt, sack, or pick with Jimmy under the gun. Having monster offensive weapons don't mean much if you can't even get the ball into their hands. Purdy has demonstrated time and time again that he can accurately and reliably push the ball downfield right into the hands of the playmakers.

I think there is some truth to calling Purdy a system QB, but one has to give credit where it's due because of what he does to enable that system. At the end of the day, every position has responsibilities and assignments within the team's system. How well a player executes under it is entirely on them, and Purdy has been executing at an incredibly high level that we haven't seen in the Niners franchise in years.

Well, put it this way. It's between Matt Ryan and Purdy in who did what Kyle wanted better
Cousins is a distant third. I paid attention then...Cousins had highs at 1pm and lows at night. Kyle wanted an all-night romp but Kirk wouldn't give....

 

[JujuFish]

It doesn't matter, but I'm gonna get salty about it in week 15 anyway?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10101746-nfl-mvp-race-2023-24-latest-predictions-after-updated-odds-entering-week-16

Note that Josh Allen is currently 6th in Vegas odds. So how is he not in the conversation?

TBH I didn't think I was salty, but looking back, I can see it. And yes, looking at updated MVP odds after last weekend, I see he is moving up (ironic, considering he barely did anything). But hey, I sparked some conversation around here, so that's a plus.

 

[JujuFish]

I think there is some truth to calling Purdy a system QB

Brady was called a system QB and a game manager for years to start his career. Obviously I'm not trying to say Purdy is Brady, but sometimes it takes a while to change people's opinions.

 

[Muse]

holy crap what a comeback by Seahawks!111!
Capped off by a game ending flying interception by Julian Love.

Wasn't sure why I decided to watch it. Who would have thought that game featuring a couple of teams on losing streaks would end so spectacularly? The ending was sensational. It helped that I was rooting for the Seahawks. At the beginning of that Seahawks touchdown drive with maybe 1:40 to go I figured that their odds of winning the game were maybe 20%. The 2nd pass on that drive to DK Metcalf was nothing short of spectacular as was the catch. The touchdown play itself looked highly improbable, actually virtually impossible, especially given that it was raining. Amazing pass and catch that looked just about impossible. And the interception that ended it was phenomenal. What an ending! Blew me away!

 

[Muse]

I'd add too that Purdy's pocket awareness is just a whole 'nother level over Jimmy. There's been so many drives that were extended due to Purdy having a much better sense of the pressure and processing it quickly that would have been either a punt, sack, or pick with Jimmy under the gun. Having monster offensive weapons don't mean much if you can't even get the ball into their hands. Purdy has demonstrated time and time again that he can accurately and reliably push the ball downfield right into the hands of the playmakers.

I think there is some truth to calling Purdy a system QB, but one has to give credit where it's due because of what he does to enable that system. At the end of the day, every position has responsibilities and assignments within the team's system. How well a player executes under it is entirely on them, and Purdy has been executing at an incredibly high level that we haven't seen in the Niners franchise in years.

I used to wince when Jimmy (with the 49ers) went back to pass and was trying to figure out what to do. I could feel a mistake coming. Purdy's on another level entirely. He processes the situation quickly and efficiently. He's prepared. I think he's gotten considerably better as this season's gone on, except for the 3 game losing streak (he suffering a concussion at the beginning of that was likely a factor). No other losses this season. They may not lose another.

 

[Saylick]

I used to wince when Jimmy (with the 49ers) went back to pass and was trying to figure out what to do. I could feel a mistake coming. Purdy's on another level entirely. He processes the situation quickly and efficiently. He's prepared. I think he's gotten better and better as this season's gone on, except for the 3 game losing streak (he suffering a concussion at the beginning of that was likely a factor). No other losses this season. They may not lose another.

Yeah, when Jimmy was QB and the Niners needed to score on a crucial drive, it was one of those "Oh great, here we go..." moments every time. I had no confidence that the Niners could get it done. Crucial third and long with Jimmy under the gun? Forget about it. Just clenching my jaw on the verge of getting TMJ because you knew it a pick was coming.

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1737129208030056457

neither are likely but still a wild stat with 3 games to go

 

[zinfamous]

I don't think any of his predecessors of being Kyle's triggerman would have been as effective. Not Kirk or Jimmy.

Oh indeed. Purdy is easily their best QB since Smith ...I mean not joking because it's inarguably true. Only thing missing form his tools seems to be the cannon arm (Smith never had, either), and deadly accuracy (Smith was better at, but not great).

He's absolutely solid so far, but as for the previous two QBs, they also didn't have McCaffrey as long as Purdy has....actually, did Garrapolo even have McCaffrey on the same Offense? I recall the trade and benching to be near the same time?

My NFL season memories really only last about one season at a time. It's all hazy for previous years, with some specific clear memories


To add on to the MVP/Allen discussion:

I think it's generally understood that if you don't make the playoffs, then yeah, you aren't getting MVP...but I do think this should only apply to QBs. at a pure stat level, that probably isn't all that fair, but this is usually qualified with the eye test. MVP QBs will overcome team mistakes to win games. It's their job.

I think if you're a position player, that shouldn't matter as much. I think any RB or WR (or DE/LB, lol) shouldn't be ignored for consideration on non-playoff teams. Obviously, it would be a lifetime event for an RB to have an MVP season that doesn't make the playoffs, managing to beat a QB on a playoff team...but I think it's a fair argument in the world of sports discussions where none of this actually matters, anyway.

 

[zinfamous]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1737129208030056457

neither are likely but still a wild stat with 3 games to go

...it's not that wild when you consider how shit the NFC East almost always is.

though tbf...maybe more of an indictment on the overall quality of the NFC in the WC/hunt tier of teams, because of course both the Iggles and Girls are kinda good? this year.

 

[Muse]

Oh indeed. Purdy is easily their best QB since Smith ...I mean not joking because it's inarguably true. Only thing missing form his tools seems to be the cannon arm (Smith never had, either), and deadly accuracy (Smith was better at, but not great).

Purdy's accuracy has very noticeably improved as this season has progressed.

As far as the cannon arm goes, I think that is somewhat by intention. Laser passes are harder to adjust to and catch.

 

[Torn Mind]

Oh indeed. Purdy is easily their best QB since Smith ...I mean not joking because it's inarguably true. Only thing missing form his tools seems to be the cannon arm (Smith never had, either), and deadly accuracy (Smith was better at, but not great).

He's absolutely solid so far, but as for the previous two QBs, they also didn't have McCaffrey as long as Purdy has....actually, did Garrapolo even have McCaffrey on the same Offense? I recall the trade and benching to be near the same time?

My NFL season memories really only last about one season at a time. It's all hazy for previous years, with some specific clear memories


To add on to the MVP/Allen discussion:

I think it's generally understood that if you don't make the playoffs, then yeah, you aren't getting MVP...but I do think this should only apply to QBs. at a pure stat level, that probably isn't all that fair, but this is usually qualified with the eye test. MVP QBs will overcome team mistakes to win games. It's their job.

I think if you're a position player, that shouldn't matter as much. I think any RB or WR (or DE/LB, lol) shouldn't be ignored for consideration on non-playoff teams. Obviously, it would be a lifetime event for an RB to have an MVP season that doesn't make the playoffs, managing to beat a QB on a playoff team...but I think it's a fair argument in the world of sports discussions where none of this actually matters, anyway.

Alex Smith was brain damaged Captain Checkdown but had Frank Gore. He never played for Kyle though, although you could say emasculating Andy Reid compared to Mahomes is a comparable.

McCaffery wasn't going to save Jimmy because it would have still scheming only the middle of the field.. Kyle was going to move into making his own Josh Allen(or make an RGIII the right way) with Trey Lance but then Lance wasn't good and got injured.

And Kurt Warner had Marshall Faulk.

 

[Muse]

Lance wasn't good and got injured.

Lance had almost no experience compared to Purdy.

 

[manly]

Ravens are butthurt at being 5 1/2 point dogs @ SF.

'Disrespected' Ravens irked at being underdogs

In Baltimore's much-anticipated Monday night showdown at the 49ers, the Ravens will be underdogs for just the second time this season. That role didn't sit well with some inside the locker room of the team that's tied for the best record in the NFL.

www.espn.com

 

[darkswordsman17]

Oh indeed. Purdy is easily their best QB since Young...

Fixed that for you.

 

[Muse]

Fixed that for you.

I thought they should have taken Rodgers instead of Smith.

 

[KMFJD]

Lions clinch division on Mullins 4th INT, it's been a while

 

[IronWing]

Packers win. Just two more wins and they won't have a losing season.

 

[PlanetJosh]

The Eagles and Cowboys will battle a few teams for the next few weeks to see which one comes out on top in the division.

 

[Exterous]

I'm not sure what I watched with the Raiders Chiefs game but it wasn't football. It was entertaining though

 

[zinfamous]

Holy shit McAffrey on this drive! Brock have bad day, so MVP 2 hands off to MVP 1 to get shit done and pull through the half.

How good is this team, even when horrible shit happens? Holy shit. Master Class. O-Line, weapons all just gel together and work when they need to. Purdy is still as good as anyone even when the shitstorm hits him, hah. It's quite awesome.

 

[brianmanahan]

can purdy come back from this? normally i would've said yes, but today doesn't look like his day

 

[zinfamous]

whelp, back to shit again! looks like I posted too soon.

 

[zinfamous]

can purdy come back from this? normally i would've said yes, but today doesn't look like his day

He's jsut got to pull an Aiden O'Donnell or whatshisname and just hand the ball off for victory today, as only chance to slay another giant.

...but JFC, what is going on in KC? that was SHIT.

NWO this season.