NFL, Brady Rule

[surfsatwerk]

You do realize that the people hitting the quarterback these days are MUCH faster and MUCH larger than the players from the 70s and 80s.

Go to the hall of fame web site (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx) and notice that hall of famers from the 70s would only be of average size in the modern NFL.

Everyone is bigger at all positions. You aren't having 175lb quarterbacks getting hit by 275lb d-linemen.

 

[Homerboy]

Everyone is bigger at all positions. You aren't having 175lb quarterbacks getting hit by 275lb d-linemen.

No, you have a 300lb lineman coming at the 225lb QB MUCH faster (F = ma) in what is still a horribly vulnerable and easily injured part of the body; the knees. It doesn't matter if you are 175lbs or 225lbs or 400lbs, your knees are weak spots.

That being said, I'm not overly keen on the rules. There's a fine line between protecting QBs and babying them.

 

[ktehmok]

Jack Lambert said it best "Why don't they put skirts on them?"

 

[BUTCH1]

Jack Lambert said it best "Why don't they put skirts on them?"

Jack was the dirtiest cheap-shot player ever to walk the gridiron.

 

[MotF Bane]

I'm okay with being tough on below the knee hits. That's a way to do a lot of damage. Above the knee and grabbing the calves is a very good way to tackle, and there's nothing that should be made wrong about that. They do overly enforce the Brady rule sometimes, and it's annoying as hell. Example: NE/TB @ London, after Brady threw it, the Buc basically slapped his arm, and got called. That's fucking absurd. But not wanting a stationary guy wearing cleats to take 300 fast moving pounds just under the knees? That's fairly sensible.

 

[zylander]

Let's just have teams of nerds, who can play Madden (whatever year it is) football?? Then it's only a virtual injury!

Better yet, let's bring back quarterbacks like Terry Bradshaw. Granted, he's probably suffering from all those hits now, but manly quarterbacks of the 70's would take a hit, get up, and throw a touchdown pass on your pansy defense!!

Thats why I like Roethlisberger.

 

[BeauJangles]

Nobody forces these guys to play football. They play because they love the game, because they want to get paid, or because of a combination of the two. I understand that the league should make reasonable attempts to protect these guys, but these new rules have gone too far. Don't want to risk blowing out your knee or getting tackled by 300 lb defensive linemen? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

All of these guys have a choice and they choose to continue to play the game despite the dangers. Yes, it's bad for your body, but as a society we can't coddle every single person. We have to let people make their own decisions. These guys want to play in the NFL. Let them play the damn game.

 

[ktehmok]

Jack was the dirtiest cheap-shot player ever to walk the gridiron.

Yeah, and....?

 

[Triumph]

You do realize that the people hitting the quarterback these days are MUCH faster and MUCH larger than the players from the 70s and 80s.

Go to the hall of fame web site (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx) and notice that hall of famers from the 70s would only be of average size in the modern NFL.

And yet, the league refs expect that 300 pound line man to stop, mid air, and land on the ground in front of the QB, directly defying the laws of physics, rather than brush that QB who released the ball 0.5 seconds earlier.

Look at this pussy named Tom Brady. This is what needs to stop. I don't even know if he was going for the knees, looks like he was just stumbling, but a flag for touching the passer? And then Brady's incredibly childish, whining, whimpering response? He should be flagged for unsportsman's like conduct just for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSSnQrhUKpE

Or this one, what's the defender supposed to do? Calls like this are starting to make defenders scared to sack the quarterback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPFWX-Cew0#t=0m42s

 

[skooma]

I think that's a toughie. It is sort of unfair to have one set of rules for one particular position that does not apply to other positions. However I do agree with the need to REASONABLY protect the QB, but I think it has gotten a bit overdone and silly.

The reason is that the QB has his lead leg (the one most likely to be hit) in such a vulnerable position, planted and straight, that hits below the knee are far more likely to blow out a knee then on other plays. Just like the chop block rule in the trenches- you can't block a defender below the thigh if they are already engaged in a block, it's meant to protect players when they are most vulnerable.

The QB rules I hate are the automatic flags for blows to the head. Even a bruxh to the head will draw a flag. Ridiculous.

 

[BeauJangles]

And yet, the league refs expect that 300 pound line man to stop, mid air, and land on the ground in front of the QB, directly defying the laws of physics, rather than brush that QB who released the ball 0.5 seconds earlier.

Look at this pussy named Tom Brady. This is what needs to stop. I don't even know if he was going for the knees, looks like he was just stumbling, but a flag for touching the passer? And then Brady's incredibly childish, whining, whimpering response? He should be flagged for unsportsman's like conduct just for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSSnQrhUKpE

Or this one, what's the defender supposed to do? Calls like this are starting to make defenders scared to sack the quarterback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPFWX-Cew0#t=0m42s

It's a stupid rule. I don't think anybody is debating that. That being said, there are so many bad rules / bad enforcement in the NFL.

Pass Inteference has made playing defense against receivers nearly impossible and, for certain teams, the flag comes out no matter what actually happened down field.

Roughing the Passer for hitting the QB in the helmet. Sure, if you nail him in the head it should be a penalty, but when you get your hands in the air to try and bat down a pass and inadvertently touch his helmet that isn't a penalty (I'm looking at you Peyton Manning).

The problem with NFL rule enforcement is simply that the rules are too ambiguous. There is too much room for interpretation and the NFL isn't doing anybody any favors by proposing MORE rules that don't have clearly defined criteria.

 

[Fingolfin269]

They should just get rid of helmets. Problem solved.

 

[olds]

Sniff, sniff. Hmmm, smells like RBM.

 

[actuarial]

Roughing the Passer for hitting the QB in the helmet. Sure, if you nail him in the head it should be a penalty, but when you get your hands in the air to try and bat down a pass and inadvertently touch his helmet that isn't a penalty (I'm looking at you Peyton Manning).

There were two of those called yesterday, one on the Ravens and one on the Saints. Both were pretty bullshit (and I'm a colts fan). The commentator yesterday put it best, when his partner mentioned how he got on Peyton's facemask, "well then call a facemasking penalty!"

I don't know if I agree on PI, since if that penalty didn't exist it would be impossible to complete a pass. Just wrap a guy up as soon as the ball is in the air. Now of course it is called very subjectively, so it will be up to a lot of scrutiny, and it would be the easiest way for the league to 'protect' a team or encourage a certain result if they so desired.

 

[BeauJangles]

There were two of those called yesterday, one on the Ravens and one on the Saints. Both were pretty bullshit (and I'm a colts fan). The commentator yesterday put it best, when his partner mentioned how he got on Peyton's facemask, "well then call a facemasking penalty!"

I don't know if I agree on PI, since if that penalty didn't exist it would be impossible to complete a pass. Just wrap a guy up as soon as the ball is in the air. Now of course it is called very subjectively, so it will be up to a lot of scrutiny, and it would be the easiest way for the league to 'protect' a team or encourage a certain result if they so desired.

My problem with pass interference is that it can swing a game so much and is often very controversial. As a Patriots fan, the pass interference against Austin Collie going over the middle in the Pats / Colts game was a perfect example. The ball was thrown too far to be caught, Collie went up for it and collided mid-air with his defender (Bodden, I think). They both fall down and Bodden gets the interference call despite the fact that ball was overthrown and despite the fact that Bodden has just as much right to go after the ball as Collie. Hell, the PI call that gave the Broncos a first and goal in '05 or '06 against the Pats STILL bothers me. The ball was thrown out of the back of the end zone and Ashley Lele and his defender were locked up the whole way. Pushing and shoving on both sides.

Now, I'm not going to cry sour grapes too much because I know these calls go both ways, but that doesn't make it acceptable. I hate seeing my team get a call I know they shouldn't get. Case in point - '07 Ravens game with the four attempts for the 4th and 1 try. Or those roughing the passer penalties that twice extended crucial drives for the Pats during at least two games this season. Shit, even the "tuck rule" or whatever. Sure sounded like bullshit to me.

Pass interference should be put away for the pushing and shoving that goes on as the receiver / defender go down the field. Throw an illegal contact flag. PI should really only come out when the receiver gets absolutely mauled before the ball gets there. IMO, they should also remove this ridiculous "you have to be facing the ball to make a play on it or it's PI" rule. It's called so unevenly that it isn't fair.

The NFL would be a much better game with simplified rules. Sure, some of those rules would hurt big time offensive teams, but they would result in better calls, fewer reviews, and a better fan experience. Too many games today are decided (or heavily influenced) by the refs.

A great example of balance, IMO, is in hockey. The NHL has officiating issues just like all sports, but one thing they do right is overtime. In overtime you have to practically commit a felony to get a penalty. Everybody knows this and, of course, the games get much more physical. In return, however, overtime is almost always decided by the players, not the refs.

These days I even take issue with instant replay. It's great some of the time, but now that we have the ability to go back and critique each catch frame-by-frame it's gotten out of hand. It's nice that replay can bail a team out of a bad call, but replay gets used entirely too much.

 

[darrontrask]

I know this will sound like whining.....but the NE Patriots have gotten more bullshit calls that change the outcome of games than any other, and probably all the other teamscombined. Two of the Super Bowl wins came in seasons where calls in the playoffs changed the outcome of games. I guess they had to find a way to protect Brady as his skills are diminishing. When all Brady has to do is look at a ref and he gets a flag throw even when the ref didn't clearly see the infraction, the spirit of the rules are lost and it creates an illusion of favoritism in the NFL.

Wonder how much Kraft "contributes" to the NFL's rule committee.

 

[BeauJangles]

I know this will sound like whining.....but the NE Patriots have gotten more bullshit calls that change the outcome of games than any other, and probably all the other teamscombined. Two of the Super Bowl wins came in seasons where calls in the playoffs changed the outcome of games. I guess they had to find a way to protect Brady as his skills are diminishing. When all Brady has to do is look at a ref and he gets a flag throw even when the ref didn't clearly see the infraction, the spirit of the rules are lost and it creates an illusion of favoritism in the NFL.

Wonder how much Kraft "contributes" to the NFL's rule committee.

I think all very successful teams have had their share of absolutely retarded calls. This is the problem. Simplify the rules. Get rid of the bullshit. Let the players play the game.

 

[Triumph]

These days I even take issue with instant replay. It's great some of the time, but now that we have the ability to go back and critique each catch frame-by-frame it's gotten out of hand. It's nice that replay can bail a team out of a bad call, but replay gets used entirely too much.

Nah, I like it the way it is, because the coach has to balance his need for time outs with the need for a corrected call. It adds an element of strategy to the game, and with only 2 per game, it keeps them from needlessly using it and delaying the game play. I mean, you know this, but I wouldn't call 4 total instant replays (on average) across a 3 or 4 hour game, as entirely too much.

 

[MarkXIX]

Stop trying to pad your fantasy football shit in your favor. People are going to get hurt, deal with it.

Any of you that agree with yet another rule change are less concerned with the money that teams spend and more concerned with your friggin' football pool at work.

 

[Miramonti]

I think the new rules to protect the qb's are unfortunate, but also unfortunately necessary. The qb is the team and its chance for success. Imo the rules are less about protecting a qb than it is about protecting the game, given how frequently qb's have gone down in the past decade.

However the idea to protect everyone's knees and not just the qb is legit too.

 

[mugs]

Nobody forces these guys to play football. They play because they love the game, because they want to get paid, or because of a combination of the two. I understand that the league should make reasonable attempts to protect these guys, but these new rules have gone too far. Don't want to risk blowing out your knee or getting tackled by 300 lb defensive linemen? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

All of these guys have a choice and they choose to continue to play the game despite the dangers. Yes, it's bad for your body, but as a society we can't coddle every single person. We have to let people make their own decisions. These guys want to play in the NFL. Let them play the damn game.

The NFL gets to set the rules of the game, and the NFL wants to protect the quarterbacks. Don't like it? Don't watch football. Go watch the NBA or something.

Why not apply the same poor logic to any other rules in the NFL?

Why should facemasking be illegal? Don't want to have your neck jerked around? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should the horse-collar tackle be illegal? Don't want a broken leg? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should late hits out of bounds be illegal? Don't want to get shoved into bystanders when you're not expecting it? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

 

[surfsatwerk]

The NFL gets to set the rules of the game, and the NFL wants to protect the quarterbacks. Don't like it? Don't watch football. Go watch the NBA or something.

Why not apply the same poor logic to any other rules in the NFL?

Why should facemasking be illegal? Don't want to have your neck jerked around? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should the horse-collar tackle be illegal? Don't want a broken leg? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should late hits out of bounds be illegal? Don't want to get shoved into bystanders when you're not expecting it? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

You're an idiot. No one has claimed that any of those have directly interfered with players doing their job. You can't be a defensive lineman and go after the quarterback with the way the rules are currently. Brady penalties have dramatically altered the way the game is played and completely changed the course of some games this season.

I would prefer if players decided the course of the game by their play, not refs by how the choose to interpret bullshit new rules.

 

[mjrpes3]

The Brady rules can be judged by the half-life of the grumbling about them. The half-life is about two years so within a decade they will have been accepted by the vast majority.

 

[BeauJangles]

The NFL gets to set the rules of the game, and the NFL wants to protect the quarterbacks. Don't like it? Don't watch football. Go watch the NBA or something.

Why not apply the same poor logic to any other rules in the NFL?

Why should facemasking be illegal? Don't want to have your neck jerked around? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should the horse-collar tackle be illegal? Don't want a broken leg? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Why should late hits out of bounds be illegal? Don't want to get shoved into bystanders when you're not expecting it? Don't play football. Go play in the NBA or something.

Typical internet arguing.

It's not poor logic. Your three examples (facemask, horse-collar, and late hits) are clearly dangerous plays that are easily avoided for the most part. The problem with the new rules concerning QBs is that it is very very difficult to rush the passer and then instantaneously stop before you make contact. The same goes for hitting a QB in the helmet.

The Brady rule essentially asks players to do something that is nearly impossible -- blitz a QB and then be able to stop on a dime. The rules you are discussing are reasonable and easily enforceable. The rules I'm discussing are completely unreasonable and are complete judgment calls.

The reason NFL rule enforcement sucks is because the rules are too ambiguous. The plays you mention are not ambiguous. Did the guy grab another guy's facemask? Penalty. Did the defender pull a player down by his shoulder pads? Penalty. Did the defender hit another player out of bounds? Penalty.

Now look at DPI. It's not black and white.

Look at the Brady rule. It's not black and white.

Look at illegal contact. It's not black and white.

These rules are adding undue burden onto already over-burdened referees and asking them to judge intent, motive, and make predictions about what would have happened had the penalty not occurred.

How hard is to understand?