NFL Quarterbacks

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: JDub02
Another vote for Ben. He may not make the highlight reels as often as Manning and Brady, but he knows what it takes to win football games, and that's what it comes down to in the end.

There's no way you can talk about Ben in the same light as Manning and Brady... you just can't... First of all Brady has won way more football games than Ben, so that alone trumps your "he just wins baby" argument...

And Peyton Manning... for god's sake he is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. It's just ridiculous to put Ben in that same conversation. I think Ben is a great QB don't get me wrong... but he's not Manning/Brady level.

I'm not knocking Brady or Manning. They're definitely 2 of the top QB's in NFL history. I was saying that Ben shouldn't be discounted because he doesn't make the highlight reels as often.

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Manning
Brady
Brees
Big Ben
Rivers
Favre
Warner
Eli

Ryan is still too early to tell, I think Mcnabb still has a huge upside if the team gets it together. Mcnabb, Big Ben, Warner have been underrated their whole careers. Eli really needs to be more consistent and without that fluke Super Bowl catch he'd be nothing.

Warner has hardly been underrated. He's had four truly great years - 99, 00, 01 and 08. The ones inbetween are marked by mediocrity and a lot of benchwarming.

Note how 3 of those 4 years were playing in a comfy dome.

 

[PepePeru]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: JDub02
Another vote for Ben. He may not make the highlight reels as often as Manning and Brady, but he knows what it takes to win football games, and that's what it comes down to in the end.

There's no way you can talk about Ben in the same light as Manning and Brady... you just can't... First of all Brady has won way more football games than Ben, so that alone trumps your "he just wins baby" argument...

And Peyton Manning... for god's sake he is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. It's just ridiculous to put Ben in that same conversation. I think Ben is a great QB don't get me wrong... but he's not Manning/Brady level.

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

 

[IAteYourMother]

both Mannings, Brady, Brees, Warner, Hasselbeck, Cutler, Ryan, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer are all guys I would easily take over Roethlisberger. Roethlisberger is like Terry Bradshaw. Capable passer, more in the game manager mold, but he's certainly shown the ability to step up at times.

 

[imported_Champ]

Collage guys:
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy
Jimmy Clausen

Young Guys
Aaron Rogers -- imagine if he had a o-line
Joe Flacco -- this kid is going to be great
Phillip Rivers -- smart qb, showing what he can do without LT at his best
Matt Schaub -- not 100% sold, hes almost bi-polar
Matt Ryan -- he is going places but doesn't have the tallent to be at the top of the list
Jay Cutler -- when he starts making smarter reads he will have all the tools to be the #1 QB
Eli Manning -- overrated, has difficulty with the spiral
Matt Stafford -- don't really know what to make of him...
Mark Sanchez -- will never be a top 10 QB

Vets
Peyton Manning -- smartest QB to ever play the game
Drew Brees -- arm + smarts + no fear = top QB
Tom Brady -- he can read the field and make good plays, but is not on the same level as above
Ben Roethlisberger -- smart, makes good reads, plays with passion, hes a top 5 QB
Carson Palmer -- never really stood out, but he can win games

How are they still playing?
Brett Farve -- well hes better then 20 other guys out there so he still deserves to play
Warner -- hes making good reads, dont see him as the same guy as last year though

Top 5 playing today
1. manning
2. brees
3. brady
4. Big Ben
5. Rogers

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: JDub02
Another vote for Ben. He may not make the highlight reels as often as Manning and Brady, but he knows what it takes to win football games, and that's what it comes down to in the end.

There's no way you can talk about Ben in the same light as Manning and Brady... you just can't... First of all Brady has won way more football games than Ben, so that alone trumps your "he just wins baby" argument...

And Peyton Manning... for god's sake he is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. It's just ridiculous to put Ben in that same conversation. I think Ben is a great QB don't get me wrong... but he's not Manning/Brady level.

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

Wait did you just say Ben is better than Peyton? You wouldn't happen to be a rabid crazy Steelers fan would you?

How many times has Big Ben been determined NFL MVP?

How many times has big ben thrown for more than 3500 yards?

 

[olds]

Joe Montana

 

[smitbret]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Joe Montana

=Sammy Baugh + Bill Walsh.

Just a really good quarterback in the right place at the right time.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: smitbret

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Joe Montana

=Sammy Baugh + Bill Walsh.

Just a really good quarterback in the right place at the right time.

He was good even with the Chiefs in the twilight of his career... Just as stupid as saying Walsh made Jerry Rice or Steve Young

 

[murphy55d]

Matt Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger? Now you guys are just being silly.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: murphy55d
Matt Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger? Now you guys are just being silly.

I was thinking similarly for Rivers over Roethlisberger.

 

[smitbret]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: smitbret

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Joe Montana

=Sammy Baugh + Bill Walsh.

Just a really good quarterback in the right place at the right time.

He was good even with the Chiefs in the twilight of his career... Just as stupid as saying Walsh made Jerry Rice or Steve Young

Jerry Rice would have excelled on ANY team. Bill Walsh did make Steve Young. He also made Roger Craig, John Taylor, Wendell Tyler, etc., etc., etc.

 

[smitbret]

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: murphy55d
Matt Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger? Now you guys are just being silly.

I was thinking similarly for Rivers over Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger is a system quarterback. That being said, he would probably be an above average quarterback regardless of where he played. I'll get lambasted for this, but you could pretty much swap he and Tom Brady out and neither team would see an increase or decrease in their production. Smart QBs with reasonably strong arms that know how to win games. Put them on crappy teams and they will still be good quarterbacks, but not great. Brady does seem to have a knack for making the players around him better, but that may just be the system they play in.

 

[Shlong]

Originally posted by: Champ

Matt Ryan -- he is going places but doesn't have the tallent to be at the top of the list

Doesn't have the talent? Ryan's one of the most talented and accurate young QB's I've ever seen. He's cerebral like Peyton Manning and studies like him (all day in the film room). He has a good arm with good accuracy, how is he not talented? Look at his stats from his first 1 1/3 seasons and its comparable to anyone.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

HAHAHAHAHA......<takes a deep breath>....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The simple logic some people employ amazes me. "But...but...he has more rings!" Yeah, and the Steelers and Patriots have generally had better teams (particulary on defense and special teams) than the Colts. If you want to use number of SB wins as the main barometer of how great a QB is, then I guess you have to conclude that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. :roll:

Let's talk about individual awards. Manning has more MVPs than Brady and Roethlisberger combined and unless something bad happens, will likely win his fourth this year, which would be an NFL record. Manning holds numerous NFL records and the only reason Brady has the single season TD record is because he played entire games, in one case was brought BACK into a game to run up the score more, and yet only beat Manning's record by 1 TD. In the year Manning broke Marino's TD record, he was removed from games because the score was so lopsided. Not to mention that statistically speaking, the year Manning broke Marino's record is still the best year for a QB in the history of the game from a QB rating perspective. That probably won't be broken for a long, long time.

Big Ben? He has one Superbowl where he was a complete non-factor and the Steelers won DESPITE him. I'll give him props for the last Superbowl, because he did play well. I generally like Big Ben, but give me a break. This man is not only not in Manning's league, I am not even sure he breaks the top 5. I'd put Manning, Brady, and Brees way ahead of him, and I'd be tempted to put Eli Manning, Rivers, Favre, McNabb, and Palmer at his level or slightly above.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

HAHAHAHAHA......<takes a deep breath>....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The simple logic some people employ amazes me. "But...but...he has more rings!" Yeah, and the Steelers and Patriots have generally had better teams (particulary on defense and special teams) than the Colts. If you want to use number of SB wins as the main barometer of how great a QB is, then I guess you have to conclude that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. :roll:

Let's talk about individual awards. Manning has more MVPs than Brady and Roethlisberger combined and unless something bad happens, will likely win his fourth this year, which would be an NFL record. Manning holds numerous NFL records and the only reason Brady has the single season TD record is because he played entire games, in one case was brought BACK into a game to run up the score more, and yet only beat Manning's record by 1 TD. In the year Manning broke Marino's TD record, he was removed from games because the score was so lopsided. Not to mention that statistically speaking, the year Manning broke Marino's record is still the best year for a QB in the history of the game from a QB rating perspective. That probably won't be broken for a long, long time.

Big Ben? He has one Superbowl where he was a complete non-factor and the Steelers won DESPITE him. I'll give him props for the last Superbowl, because he did play well. I generally like Big Ben, but give me a break. This man is not only not in Manning's league, I am not even sure he breaks the top 5. I'd put Manning, Brady, and Brees way ahead of him, and I'd be tempted to put Eli Manning, Rivers, Favre, McNabb, and Palmer at his level or slightly above.

Agreed... However, I struggle to rank Palmer that high because he just hasn't put enough complete seasons yet. I think he certainly has the potential to be that level though.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: smitbret

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: murphy55d
Matt Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger? Now you guys are just being silly.

I was thinking similarly for Rivers over Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger is a system quarterback. That being said, he would probably be an above average quarterback regardless of where he played. I'll get lambasted for this, but you could pretty much swap he and Tom Brady out and neither team would see an increase or decrease in their production. Smart QBs with reasonably strong arms that know how to win games. Put them on crappy teams and they will still be good quarterbacks, but not great. Brady does seem to have a knack for making the players around him better, but that may just be the system they play in.

Maybe... but I really think playing the imaginary QB switcharoo game is a waste of time. We can only judge a QBs performance by what he does on the field. We will NEVER know how good Montana would have been in his prime without Rice. We can only know how good he was with Rice...

 

[Barfo]

OP is FAIL for leaving out Big Ben off that list. I don't think he's the best QB currently playing but he easily ranks in the top 5.

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: Champ
Collage guys:
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy
Jimmy Clausen

Young Guys
Aaron Rogers -- imagine if he had a o-line
Joe Flacco -- this kid is going to be great
Phillip Rivers -- smart qb, showing what he can do without LT at his best
Matt Schaub -- not 100% sold, hes almost bi-polar
Matt Ryan -- he is going places but doesn't have the tallent to be at the top of the list
Jay Cutler -- when he starts making smarter reads he will have all the tools to be the #1 QB
Eli Manning -- overrated, has difficulty with the spiral
Matt Stafford -- don't really know what to make of him...
Mark Sanchez -- will never be a top 10 QB

Vets
Peyton Manning -- smartest QB to ever play the game
Drew Brees -- arm + smarts + no fear = top QB
Tom Brady -- he can read the field and make good plays, but is not on the same level as above
Ben Roethlisberger -- smart, makes good reads, plays with passion, hes a top 5 QB
Carson Palmer -- never really stood out, but he can win games

How are they still playing?
Brett Farve -- well hes better then 20 other guys out there so he still deserves to play
Warner -- hes making good reads, dont see him as the same guy as last year though

Top 5 playing today
1. manning
2. brees
3. brady
4. Big Ben
5. Rogers

Much better than OP :thumbsup:

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

HAHAHAHAHA......<takes a deep breath>....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The simple logic some people employ amazes me. "But...but...he has more rings!" Yeah, and the Steelers and Patriots have generally had better teams (particulary on defense and special teams) than the Colts. If you want to use number of SB wins as the main barometer of how great a QB is, then I guess you have to conclude that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. :roll:

Let's talk about individual awards. Manning has more MVPs than Brady and Roethlisberger combined and unless something bad happens, will likely win his fourth this year, which would be an NFL record. Manning holds numerous NFL records and the only reason Brady has the single season TD record is because he played entire games, in one case was brought BACK into a game to run up the score more, and yet only beat Manning's record by 1 TD. In the year Manning broke Marino's TD record, he was removed from games because the score was so lopsided. Not to mention that statistically speaking, the year Manning broke Marino's record is still the best year for a QB in the history of the game from a QB rating perspective. That probably won't be broken for a long, long time.

Big Ben? He has one Superbowl where he was a complete non-factor and the Steelers won DESPITE him. I'll give him props for the last Superbowl, because he did play well. I generally like Big Ben, but give me a break. This man is not only not in Manning's league, I am not even sure he breaks the top 5. I'd put Manning, Brady, and Brees way ahead of him, and I'd be tempted to put Eli Manning, Rivers, Favre, McNabb, and Palmer at his level or slightly above.

Manning and brady...maybe... but Brees? what a joke.

Brees played several years under the game management of "marty ball"... and his and Bens stats are basically equal, except for the fact that Brees has a 3 yr head start on him.

they both have a career completion % of 64. career 8 yards per pass average, and career 90.9 QB rating. Aside from the 3 years in time difference. they are on the same pace for career completions, career yards, career passing TD, career Int... Except that Ben had more rushing yards & rushing TD's in 30 less attempts...well we will give drew his one catch for a TD. So other than Ben has 2 rings and Brees 0... I dont see that big a difference.
Advantage: Ben

 

[KMFJD]

I'd take Brees over Rothlesberger right now....

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

HAHAHAHAHA......<takes a deep breath>....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The simple logic some people employ amazes me. "But...but...he has more rings!" Yeah, and the Steelers and Patriots have generally had better teams (particulary on defense and special teams) than the Colts. If you want to use number of SB wins as the main barometer of how great a QB is, then I guess you have to conclude that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. :roll:

Let's talk about individual awards. Manning has more MVPs than Brady and Roethlisberger combined and unless something bad happens, will likely win his fourth this year, which would be an NFL record. Manning holds numerous NFL records and the only reason Brady has the single season TD record is because he played entire games, in one case was brought BACK into a game to run up the score more, and yet only beat Manning's record by 1 TD. In the year Manning broke Marino's TD record, he was removed from games because the score was so lopsided. Not to mention that statistically speaking, the year Manning broke Marino's record is still the best year for a QB in the history of the game from a QB rating perspective. That probably won't be broken for a long, long time.

Big Ben? He has one Superbowl where he was a complete non-factor and the Steelers won DESPITE him. I'll give him props for the last Superbowl, because he did play well. I generally like Big Ben, but give me a break. This man is not only not in Manning's league, I am not even sure he breaks the top 5. I'd put Manning, Brady, and Brees way ahead of him, and I'd be tempted to put Eli Manning, Rivers, Favre, McNabb, and Palmer at his level or slightly above.

Manning and brady...maybe... but Brees? what a joke.


Brees played several years under the game management of "marty ball"... and his and Bens stats are basically equal, except for the fact that Brees has a 3 yr head start on him.

they both have a career completion % of 64. career 8 yards per pass average, and career 90.9 QB rating. Aside from the 3 years in time difference. they are on the same pace for career completions, career yards, career passing TD, career Int... Except that Ben had more rushing yards & rushing TD's in 30 less attempts...well we will give drew his one catch for a TD. So other than Ben has 2 rings and Brees 0... I dont see that big a difference.
Advantage: Ben

There is no maybe about it -- Manning and Brady are in their own class. I'd consider Manning #1, a gap, and then Brady #2. After a huge gap, we could debate the others. Even implying that Ben "might" be in their company is silly. And as KJMFD pointed out, I'd also take Brees over Roethlisberger right now.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: smitbret


Old Timers:
Peyton Manning (He's on his way down and no longer peaking)

lolwut?!?!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: smitbret

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

Originally posted by: vi edit
Ben is a better football player than Brees. Brees is a better QB. If that makes sense.

As for best now? Peyton. No questions. His understanding of the game, work ethic, and execution are second to no one.

He's second only to TO in blaming his team for everything that goes wrong too.

you give pats fans a bad name.

i've never seen peyton sell his teammates out, aside from calling vandejagt an idiot (which he was).

as far as ben goes, i said a couple years back i'd take him on my team any day.

He didn't say Vanderjaagt was an idiot, just said he was a "sorry ass kicker". LOL. It was funny, though.

Uh, no, he said "liquored up, idiot kicker."

EDIT: And to the point of Peyton "blaming" others or giving them dirty looks, that is exaggerated and I've seen Brady do this plenty of times as well. Marino was the biggest culprit in the "yelling at receivers, etc." category.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: PepePeru

Well, I can and will.

Yeah you're right. Manning isn't in the same level, b/c Big Ben has two rings & Peyton Manning has 1.

HAHAHAHAHA......<takes a deep breath>....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The simple logic some people employ amazes me. "But...but...he has more rings!" Yeah, and the Steelers and Patriots have generally had better teams (particulary on defense and special teams) than the Colts. If you want to use number of SB wins as the main barometer of how great a QB is, then I guess you have to conclude that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. :roll:

Let's talk about individual awards. Manning has more MVPs than Brady and Roethlisberger combined and unless something bad happens, will likely win his fourth this year, which would be an NFL record. Manning holds numerous NFL records and the only reason Brady has the single season TD record is because he played entire games, in one case was brought BACK into a game to run up the score more, and yet only beat Manning's record by 1 TD. In the year Manning broke Marino's TD record, he was removed from games because the score was so lopsided. Not to mention that statistically speaking, the year Manning broke Marino's record is still the best year for a QB in the history of the game from a QB rating perspective. That probably won't be broken for a long, long time.

Big Ben? He has one Superbowl where he was a complete non-factor and the Steelers won DESPITE him. I'll give him props for the last Superbowl, because he did play well. I generally like Big Ben, but give me a break. This man is not only not in Manning's league, I am not even sure he breaks the top 5. I'd put Manning, Brady, and Brees way ahead of him, and I'd be tempted to put Eli Manning, Rivers, Favre, McNabb, and Palmer at his level or slightly above.

Manning and brady...maybe... but Brees? what a joke.


Brees played several years under the game management of "marty ball"... and his and Bens stats are basically equal, except for the fact that Brees has a 3 yr head start on him.

they both have a career completion % of 64. career 8 yards per pass average, and career 90.9 QB rating. Aside from the 3 years in time difference. they are on the same pace for career completions, career yards, career passing TD, career Int... Except that Ben had more rushing yards & rushing TD's in 30 less attempts...well we will give drew his one catch for a TD. So other than Ben has 2 rings and Brees 0... I dont see that big a difference.
Advantage: Ben

There is no maybe about it -- Manning and Brady are in their own class. I'd consider Manning #1, a gap, and then Brady #2. After a huge gap, we could debate the others. Even implying that Ben "might" be in their company is silly. And as KJMFD pointed out, I'd also take Brees over Roethlisberger right now.

Assuming we're talking about a 100% healthy Tom Brady, I've always found the Manning / Brady debate interesting.

In my opinion, Manny sees the field slightly better than Brady and throws a better deep ball. Brady has worked on both of those things and in '07 we saw what he's capable of. Despite that outburst, Manning's technical skills concerning ball delivery are unparalleled in the NFL.

At this point in their careers, I'd give a slight edge to Manning on pre-snap reads AND a much higher rating on "gaming" the defense. What I mean by that is Manning is fantastic at drawing defenses offside, using hard counts, and, particularly, snapping the ball for penalties (like too many men on the field). It's a component of his field vision.

Where I do like Brady better than Manning is in the 2 minute offense. I guess that maybe plays into the intangibles, but Brady does a great job running an offense, staying calm under pressure and delivering the ball.

I also give Brady higher marks on play-action passing. I think he has one of the most deceptive play-action moves in the league.

I think that the moral of this story is that couldn't go wrong picking either one of these guys. If I think Manning is #1 at something, Brady isn't far behind and vice-versa. It remains to be seen if / when Brady returns to form, though I was at the Titans game last week and he was pretty... remarkable.