NFL thread 2021-2022

[Captante]

I have no reason to follow the Giants, but I believe what you're arguing is that through 5 games, Daniel Jones isn't the problem. Or at least statistically he's played well enough, which I can't dispute. But tons of QBs are putting up quality numbers, so it will take more time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

OTOH Captante likes to refer to the eye test, as he said before week 1 that Aaron Rodgers is an overrated QB. I didn't watch MNF, but Captante also gives Lamar Jackson the faintest of praise after what seemed to be a career-defining game (37-43, 442 YDS, 4 TD).

I have no opinion of Jones but I will say if you find yourself with a top 15 QB in the league (i.e. at least average), you're married to him until he asks for Kirk Cousins money.

I WISH Daniel Jones was the only problem with the Giants! Be a lot easier to fix that way! He is however PART of the problem... there's a lot more to being a winning QB in the NFL then being able to rifle the ball downfield once in awhile.

Dave Gettleman is the primary reason for the Giants current woes.

And yes I think Aaron Rodgers is overrated, however you will never find anywhere that I said he was a bad QB.... in fact I would rate him just below Favre (for example) which is pretty freaking good.

Finally until I see Lamar Jackson NOT CHOKE in a big game "faint praise" is all he rates from me at least .... I'm only impressed by ACTUAL RESULTS (ie: wins) unlike many folks.

 

[MrSquished]

I have no reason to follow the Giants, but I believe what you're arguing is that through 5 games, Daniel Jones isn't the problem. Or at least statistically he's played well enough, which I can't dispute. But tons of QBs are putting up quality numbers, so it will take more time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

OTOH Captante likes to refer to the eye test, as he said before week 1 that Aaron Rodgers is an overrated QB. I didn't watch MNF, but Captante also gives Lamar Jackson the faintest of praise after what seemed to be a career-defining game (37-43, 442 YDS, 4 TD).

I have no opinion of Jones but I will say if you find yourself with a top 15 QB in the league (i.e. at least average), you're married to him until he asks for Kirk Cousins money.

Definitely can't say Jones is the second coming of Eli, I'm saying you can't say he is the problem this year at all. He was a top 5 QB going into week 5, this is with him playing only 17 snaps with the actual starting offense. Injuries to key positional players surround him. Barkley took a few weeks to get settled in. Jones was making do with patchwork lineups. It makes no sense to want to send him packing.

 

[Captante]

Definitely can't say Jones is the second coming of Eli, I'm saying you can't say he is the problem this year at all. He was a top 5 QB going into week 5, this is with him playing only 17 snaps with the actual starting offense. Injuries to key positional players surround him. Barkley took a few weeks to get settled in. Jones was making do with patchwork lineups. It makes no sense to want to send him packing.

If the QB were not the on-field leader of a football team this might be accurate! Its a bit like saying the helmsman isn't responsible for the course of the ship when his hand is on the tiller!




However if what your saying is that Marino or Montana couldn't win with these bums on their team then I completely agree. Doesn't make Jones a great QB though, that will take winning. (also avoiding careless turnovers and bonehead plays like the one that got him hurt yesterday)

IMO the ABSOLUTE max upside for Daniel Jones is a .500 record and frankly even that's a huge reach based on the performances I've seen. Maybe he can try staying on his feet for a whole season first?

That's not good enough for me at least... maybe if I was Jets fan just having a winning record would be an acceptable goal.

 

[MrSquished]

Bruce Allen, who is as much a piece of shit as Trump is.

I mean they found out about these emails BECAUSE they are investigating WFT and Bruce Allen lol.

The NFL is not releasing any more info about the investigation into WFT. They basically offered up Chucky as a sacrificial lamb so they don't have to fuck with an actual billionaire owner. What a fucked up rich boys club. Even if you are worth a 100 million you are still just an expendable pawn. It's a billionaire boys club

NFL has no plans to release more details from Washington Football Team investigation | CNN

Despite calls to disclose the full results of the independent investigation into the Washington Football Team's workplace culture, National Football League spokesperson Brian McCarthy told CNN on Wednesday that more details will not be released due to the confidentiality element of the...

www.cnn.com

"Despite calls to disclose the full results of the independent investigation into the Washington Football Team's workplace culture, National Football League spokesperson Brian McCarthy told CNN on Wednesday that more details will not be released due to the confidentiality element of the investigation.
In July, the league fined Washington $10 million following the conclusion of the investigation that found the club's work environment was "highly unprofessional," especially for women.
The NFL said: "That review is complete and we will not be providing more details.""

 

[MrSquished]

Also an email revealed that during the lockout like 10 years ago Adam Schefter wrote an article on it and sent it to Bruce Allen asking him if he wanted any changes in it. So zero journalistic integrity.

 

[manly]

Definitely can't say Jones is the second coming of Eli, I'm saying you can't say he is the problem this year at all. He was a top 5 QB going into week 5, this is with him playing only 17 snaps with the actual starting offense. Injuries to key positional players surround him. Barkley took a few weeks to get settled in. Jones was making do with patchwork lineups. It makes no sense to want to send him packing.

Basically I'm agreeing with you and giving our friend Captante a hard time about the "eye test." Like I said, if you have a top 15 QB, you have to keep him unless he's asking for elite money like Kirk Cousins did.

To switch QBs, the Ravens are in a really tough spot. They're gonna wind up paying Lamar something like $45M annual average, and it's highly debatable whether he's elite enough. IF he puts up video game numbers this season and even wins a playoff game, they're stuck/screwed and Lamar will ask for a Mahomesian deal.

 

[Captante]

Basically I'm agreeing with you and giving our friend Captante a hard time about the "eye test." Like I said, if you have a top 15 QB, you have to keep him unless he's asking for elite money like Kirk Cousins did.

To switch QBs, the Ravens are in a really tough spot. They're gonna wind up paying Lamar something like $45M annual average, and it's highly debatable whether he's elite enough. IF he puts up video game numbers this season and even wins a playoff game, they're stuck/screwed and Lamar will ask for a Mahomesian deal.

I wouldn't automatically bet against Jackson getting a ring sooner or later, I just don't believe he can do it with his legs as his primary weapon. (this is becoming far less of an issue as he matures)

He needs to be using his HEAD #1 then arm #2, THEN when he does run it will be much more effective plus he'll stay far healthier not getting pasted all the time.

He does that and multiple rings wouldn't surprise me provided of course the Ravens do their part to supply the supporting cast. If he doesn't sooner or later (likely sooner) he'll get the living daylights knocked out of him one too many times and/or trash one of his legs.

 

[manly]

I WISH Daniel Jones was the only problem with the Giants! Be a lot easier to fix that way! He is however PART of the problem... there's a lot more to being a winning QB in the NFL then being able to rifle the ball downfield once in awhile.

Dave Gettleman is the primary reason for the Giants current woes.

And yes I think Aaron Rodgers is overrated, however you will never find anywhere that I said he was a bad QB.... in fact I would rate him just below Favre (for example) which is pretty freaking good.

Finally until I see Lamar Jackson NOT CHOKE in a big game "faint praise" is all he rates from me at least .... I'm only impressed by ACTUAL RESULTS (ie: wins) unlike many folks.

This is not what you said about Aaron Rodgers two months ago, when we agreed to disagree.

Posts #38 and #41 in this thread clearly stated you feel Marino/Favre are much better than Rodgers. I'm comfortable saying most football analysts wouldn't agree with that assessment. This is not to denigrate Marino or Favre, and I conceded at the time I have no problem with ranking Marino above Rodgers all-time.

You've made a fair assessment of Lamar Jackson. He's incredibly talented, but needs to win a playoff game to quiet the critics. Barring catastrophic injury, he's going to get paid this offseason and the cap hits will basically prevent the Ravens from being a SB contender (once the cap hit ramps up, usually year 3 of the deal).

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Sunburn74]

The NFL is not releasing any more info about the investigation into WFT. They basically offered up Chucky as a sacrificial lamb so they don't have to fuck with an actual billionaire owner. What a fucked up rich boys club. Even if you are worth a 100 million you are still just an expendable pawn. It's a billionaire boys club

NFL has no plans to release more details from Washington Football Team investigation | CNN

Despite calls to disclose the full results of the independent investigation into the Washington Football Team's workplace culture, National Football League spokesperson Brian McCarthy told CNN on Wednesday that more details will not be released due to the confidentiality element of the...

www.cnn.com

"Despite calls to disclose the full results of the independent investigation into the Washington Football Team's workplace culture, National Football League spokesperson Brian McCarthy told CNN on Wednesday that more details will not be released due to the confidentiality element of the investigation.
In July, the league fined Washington $10 million following the conclusion of the investigation that found the club's work environment was "highly unprofessional," especially for women.
The NFL said: "That review is complete and we will not be providing more details.""

Fully agree.
I think there's probably really nasty stuff in there by Snyder that's probably equivalent to what the clipper owner was caught saying . The NBA kicked that guy out and forced him to sell the team but that's the NBA. The NFL makes more money and has worse owners (in terms of ethics or social responsibilities) and they won't support kicking someone out of this cash grab of a league for something as minor as racism/sexism. My sense is the owners just decided that let Gruden take the fall. However like all things, I'm sure those emails will eventually be leaked.

 

[Captante]

This is not what you said about Aaron Rodgers two months ago, when we agreed to disagree.

Posts #38 and #41 in this thread clearly stated you feel Marino/Favre are much better than Rodgers. I'm comfortable saying most football analysts wouldn't agree with that assessment. This is not to denigrate Marino or Favre, and I conceded at the time I have no problem with ranking Marino above Rodgers all-time.

You've made a fair assessment of Lamar Jackson. He's incredibly talented, but needs to win a playoff game to quiet the critics. Barring catastrophic injury, he's going to get paid this offseason and the cap hits will basically prevent the Ravens from being a SB contender (once the cap hit ramps up, usually year 3 of the deal).

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Dan Marino WAS much better then Rodgers and somewhat better then Favre far as I'm concerned. As pure passers go he MAY be the best NFL QB ever and is certainly in the conversation.

And really all I said was that IMO Aaron Rodgers was over-rated not that he wasn't very talented. I stand by that statement.

Rodgers was declared "Legendary" by many before he won anything which is just silly but fact is that he has led an NFL team to a Superbowl win.... that's a huge accomplishment.

And as I also said I would NOT be shocked if Lamar Jackson ultimately gets a ring with the Ravens, cap issues or not provided he keeps progressing .... TIME ALONE will tell!

 

[Torn Mind]

Lamar is the one prospect with the actual potential to be...


The Perfect QB(tm)

 

[JujuFish]

Dan Marino WAS much better then Rodgers and somewhat better then Favre far as I'm concerned.

I think you underrate Rodgers. I agree Marino is better than Rodgers and Favre, but I think I'd put Rodgers above Favre.

 

[manly]

Dan Marino WAS much better then Rodgers and somewhat better then Favre far as I'm concerned. As pure passers go he MAY be the best NFL QB ever and is certainly in the conversation.

And really all I said was that IMO Aaron Rodgers was over-rated not that he wasn't very talented. I stand by that statement.

Rodgers was declared "Legendary" by many before he won anything which is just silly but fact is that he has led an NFL team to a Superbowl win.... that's a huge accomplishment.

And as I also said I would NOT be shocked if Lamar Jackson ultimately gets a ring with the Ravens, cap issues or not provided he keeps progressing .... TIME ALONE will tell!

This debate began when you literally said Marino is way better than Rodgers, which I don't agree with. If you mean who had a bigger arm, quicker release, or bigger expectations after college, that's one thing. Marino is an all-timer but Rodgers credentials (3 MVPs, 1 Super Bowl MVP) stack up against Dan's pretty well. Specifically, you didn't say Rodgers is overrated. You said he's "very over-rated." At which point, I agreed to disagree.

You're welcome to stand by your opinions; they were wrong then and they are still wrong now. Feel free to have the last word, but we probably don't need to go back and forth about 3 QBs in 3 different eras. Ostensibly, this is a 2021 NFL thread.

I think you underrate Rodgers. I agree Marino is better than Rodgers and Favre, but I think I'd put Rodgers above Favre.

I've been a Packers fan for a very long time, and even acknowledging recency bias, Rodgers is just better than Favre. Favre was brilliant from 1995-1998, but became an interception machine later in his career (with 2009 being an anomaly). Rodgers also has at least a few more seasons to pad his illustrious stats. As I've said before, the main knock against Rodgers is that he doesn't have the "clutch gene."

 

[jpiniero]

All timer backdoor cover last night when the Eagles went for 2 down 8. The line was 6.5 or 7 in most places.

 

[Torn Mind]

Trevor Lawrence definitely has a strong arm and "arm talent"(I hate that term).

He's still an ugly dude.

 

[Torn Mind]

That has got to be one of the ugliest "good" kicks I've ever seen by Matthew Wright.

 

[Captante]

That has got to be one of the ugliest "good" kicks I've ever seen by Matthew Wright.

This has to be one of the ugliest NFL games I've seen in awhile.... both these teams pretty much suck. (nice even matchup though!)

Miami may have slightly more talent on the field but Flores is a complete idiot which compensates a bit.

 

[Torn Mind]

Looks like OT.

Then I get to watch my team get spanked by KC. The team defense is dead last in Yahoo Fantasy in giving up points to quarterbacks....

 

[Captante]

Looks like OT.

Then I get to watch my team get spanked by KC. The team defense is dead last in Yahoo Fantasy in giving up points to quarterbacks....

Something is wrong with the Chiefs this year ... I give WFT a less-then-zero chance of an upset win!

Not to imply my Giants have a much better shot against LA.

 

[Torn Mind]

Lol, Tua can add to his resume that he lost to a team with a 20 game losing streak.

 

[Torn Mind]

Something is wrong with the Chiefs this year ... I give WFT a less-then-zero chance of an upset win!

Landon Collins is the reason the condom breaks every time. Take him back from whence he came.

 

[Torn Mind]

They gonna retire Sean Taylor's jersey today. Geniuses at the top gave only 4 days notice to the general public and even the little brother of Taylor.

(As a fanatic yet casual fan, I missed Joe Gibbs 2.0 in its entirety as my fan energy was directed towards other things in high school, like some animes and stuff).

 

[Captante]

I'll be watching the Giants (most likely getting their heads handed to them!) for the moment BUT Ravens/Chargers is the 1:00 pm game to watch if your teams not playing IMO.

4:00 pm Browns/Cardinals will be interesting too.

 

[Captante]

Saquon who??

So far Giants/Jones looking pretty good! (I'm holding my breath!!!)

 

[Captante]

Ahhh .... Daniel Jones is a FINE NFL quarterback !!!!

I don't know what the heck you folks defending him THINK you see that's good here.... true its not ALL his fault but he is a BIG part of this team sucking.