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Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
The explanation in that article makes no sense IMO .... I've seen the near-identical play called a safety more than once. (fumbled out the back of the end-zone)
To start off with, I'm not an Indy fan and am indifferent on SF...I don't really care much about how the game came out. (just a disclosure)

I just watched it in high definition, rather than the crappy twitter video....the play before was brutal cause Hines dropped the ball and he was wide open on a 3 and 7. Indy would have definitely scored a TD, but instead had to punt.
The returner was out of position and muffed the punt. It was incidental contact because he never had control of the ball, but because he touched the ball, it put his team at risk to lose possession. At that very point, it could have been returned by the Colts near or in the end zone for points!

He only gained control of the ball in the end zone. That's why it was a touchback. He didn't have possession of the ball until he and the ball were both in the end zone, and it was a live ball that anyone could have gotten prior to that.

As for it not being a safety, he was in the back of the endzone, but at the tail end of the play, he was dragged backwards and pulled down while tackled while he maintained possession. Forward momentum rule is what made it a touchback because he never had possession prior to that.

What ifs...
Had he kicked the ball out of the back of the endzone himself, I think the contact would have been reviewed and perhaps a safety would have been awarded...I really don't know because that counters the logic of it being a live ball since a safety typically requires possession and the offensive player's end zone. It would definitely be worthy of some kind of penalty if he were kicking the ball so the other team couldn't score a touchdown. Someone might know the rule book on that play if it was ever documented.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
How did he pass? Bill wanted Jimmy, but Tom went to Kraft and bitched about it. Pats were rumored to have 1st round offers for him on the table, but Bill wanted him to succeed and not send to a crap team and he liked Kyle so he gave him up for a 2nd rounder.
Dude got posters of Bill in his room...for those NYG super bowls. Of course he's going to omit common knowledge about the situation of Tommy vs Jimmy.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
How did he pass? Bill wanted Jimmy, but Tom went to Kraft and bitched about it. Pats were rumored to have 1st round offers for him on the table, but Bill wanted him to succeed and not send to a crap team and he liked Kyle so he gave him up for a 2nd rounder.


From what I understand Belichick was part of the decision to not start/keep him. This might not be true but hard to say for sure not having been there myself.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,056
565
126
From what I understand Belichick was part of the decision to not start/keep him. This might not be true but hard to say for sure not having been there myself.
He was part of it as in, Kraft told him to trade Jimmy after Tom went to ownership.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
He was part of it as in, Kraft told him to trade Jimmy after Tom went to ownership.


My point was that no matter whose decision in was to not keep Garoppolo it looks to have been the right one. While he's far from a bad QB I don't believe he's a long term answer.

As I said though the Niner's biggest problem by far is that they're in the NFC West .... as constituted GL with the Rams and the Cards.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136

Impressive catch by Mr. Daniel Jones.

(Sleeping Dragon Giants awoken afterwards?)


The Giants won that game and I'll take it .... HOWEVER my overall opinion of the team is unchanged based on beating up the Panthers. Still better than losing!

Anyone think KC isn't going to come back to life like a miracle next Monday night?

Nevermind "waking the dragon" the Giants will be DOING WELL if they can pull out 4 wins from the remaining schedule... I'm thinking 3 is more realistic.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
The Giants won that game and I'll take it .... HOWEVER my overall opinion of the team is unchanged based on beating up the Panthers. Still better than losing!

Anyone think KC isn't going to come back to life like a miracle next Sunday?
I think KC lost something with revamping their Oline and losing Sammy Watkins. Hell, even the crappy Washington D was competitive for a half against them and the NYG D is better than that.

Plus, the league as a whole has realized that there's been a surge of good "bomb striking" QBs and are going back to cover-2. So Mahomes can't quite just sling it to Hill anymore and Kelce gets extra attention. Mahomes is going have to eat it instinct-wise a bit and be willing to march down the field Brady style.

And their D...would be the worst in the league if not for Washington.
 
Reactions: Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
And their D...would be the worst in the league if not for Washington.


I swear I heard a report that the Chief's "defense" (lol) gave up over 7 YARDS A PLAY in the first half to TN this past Sunday?



I'd LOVE to see the Giants curb-stomp KC believe me ... I just don't expect it!
 
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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,843
1,491
126
To start off with, I'm not an Indy fan and am indifferent on SF...I don't really care much about how the game came out. (just a disclosure)

I just watched it in high definition, rather than the crappy twitter video....the play before was brutal cause Hines dropped the ball and he was wide open on a 3 and 7. Indy would have definitely scored a TD, but instead had to punt.
The returner was out of position and muffed the punt. It was incidental contact because he never had control of the ball, but because he touched the ball, it put his team at risk to lose possession. At that very point, it could have been returned by the Colts near or in the end zone for points!

He only gained control of the ball in the end zone. That's why it was a touchback. He didn't have possession of the ball until he and the ball were both in the end zone, and it was a live ball that anyone could have gotten prior to that.

As for it not being a safety, he was in the back of the endzone, but at the tail end of the play, he was dragged backwards and pulled down while tackled while he maintained possession. Forward momentum rule is what made it a touchback because he never had possession prior to that.

What ifs...
Had he kicked the ball out of the back of the endzone himself, I think the contact would have been reviewed and perhaps a safety would have been awarded...I really don't know because that counters the logic of it being a live ball since a safety typically requires possession and the offensive player's end zone. It would definitely be worthy of some kind of penalty if he were kicking the ball so the other team couldn't score a touchdown. Someone might know the rule book on that play if it was ever documented.

They kept using the word 'impetus' last night which makes the call very subjective....it did look like the kick was accidental but what is stop someone in the future from 'pretending' to kick the ball into the endzone so their team gets ball at their 20 instead pf being backed up by their goal line...
 
Reactions: Captante
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
With the speed of an NFL game you'd have to be nuts to purposely try to kick the ball into the end zone Just for a touchback. You whiff and the other team gets a free touchdown.
 
Reactions: RPD

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,056
565
126
They kept using the word 'impetus' last night which makes the call very subjective....it did look like the kick was accidental but what is stop someone in the future from 'pretending' to kick the ball into the endzone so their team gets ball at their 20 instead pf being backed up by their goal line...
Have... have you ever tried to do this? Like have you played football before and had 11 dudes on your ass while you try ever so gently try to do something with the ball and had it do what you wanted? I mean if so, you should get paid to do on side kicks, get your team the ball every time.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
As I said though the Niner's biggest problem by far is that they're in the NFC West .... as constituted GL with the Rams and the Cards.
what is stop someone in the future from 'pretending' to kick the ball into the endzone so their team gets ball at their 20 instead pf being backed up by their goal line...
Because once they touch it, it's anyone's ball. That's why that part of the play was never in question. Once the receiver fails to catch the ball and touches it, any other player has the opportunity to gain possession. If they want to risk kicking the lemon toward their end zone, they can do that....but they would have to guarantee they could recover it in the end zone before someone else. That's easier said than done with the closing time of most of those guys.

I totally get what you're saying, it's just not feasible for a team to consider taking that kind of risk in their own end zone with the other team ready to simply jump on the ball and score.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
Just think what this game would have been just a few short years ago?

No Superbowl contenders on the field tonight that's for sure.

What a stinker so far with a couple borderline NFL QB's. Even with Wilson on the field healthy I'm not sure this Seattle team is a winner.
 
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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,843
1,491
126
With the speed of an NFL game you'd have to be nuts to purposely try to kick the ball into the end zone Just for a touchback. You whiff and the other team gets a free touchdown.

What if the returner 'accidentally' kicked the ball out of the end zone and no one gained possession?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
These roughing the passer calls are just getting fucking ridiculous this year.

EDIT:

It was also fantastic traveling last Sunday and yesterday, and physically not being able to watch the Washington Football Team games the past 2 weeks, which went exactly as I expected them to go. Thankfully yesterday the first 80% of my flight was not over CONUS and the Sunday Ticket was not working on my United Flights because DirectV only works over CONUS.
 
Reactions: Captante

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Battle of a borderline mediocre quarterback vs a true bust.

NO is going to move on from Jameis at some point. No doubt.
 
Reactions: Captante

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
I almost feel like the Seahawks have a better chance of taking a safety and going for an onside kick rather than getting a 4th and 26.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,947
20,216
136
Managed to catch the last half of the 4th quarter of the BUCS saints game. Saints showed up to play it seems.

Good finish by them
 
Reactions: Captante
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