nForce audio question

[KieranCoghlan]

I'm considering upgrading to an nForce mobo, primarily for the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio capabilities. The fact that the chipset is so highly rated is helping with the decision for sure.

My question is this: If I plan on using an external A/V receiver to decode the digital audio (DD5.1 etc.) signal, does it matter what sound card/chip the mobo has built in? For example, a lot of mobo's have the Realtek ALC650/655 audio codecs, which I hate. But I thought that if you use the digital output from the MCP of the nForce chipset, then you never really use the onboard audio anyway, right?

The board I'm considering is the Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2.

My current system:
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP (VIA KT400)
Gainward GeForce4 TI4200 64MB
ATHLON XP 2100+/266
512MB PC-2700 CORSAIR RAM

 

[pspada]

Use the FIC AU13. It has Soundstorm, and comes with the AC'97 bracket. I love mine.

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Thanks for the suggestion. However, do you know the answer to my question?

 

[SilverBack]

I think he did answer your question.
The mobo you are considering is using the Realtek ALC650 Audio AC'97 Codec.
He suggested instead using the FIC AU13, which uses the nVidia SoundStorm built in chipset.

As you said "a lot of mobo's have the Realtek ALC650/655 audio codecs, which I hate. " That is exactly what you're going to get.
The digital output on the Gigabyte board is handled by the Realtek chipset, even the 5.1 digital out through the S/P DIF input/output pin header.

The motherboard that pspada suggested would be a much better "listening" board than what you are thinking about.

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Thanks for your explanation.

I was asking if the onboard audio chip would be bypassed if I used the nForce MCP for audio. Because if it is bypassed, then I prefer the Gigabyte (which I know uses the realtek crap) because I like the other features of the board.

I didn't feel that pspada answered the question: he just suggested a board he likes (as far as I could tell) with no explanation of why, except that he liked it.

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Okay, now I'm confused. NVidia lists the Gigabyte GA-7NNXPV as being "Soundstorm (tm) Certified". However, they do NOT list the FIC AU13 as "Soundstorm Certified". And on top of that, the Gigabyte GA-7NNXP uses the Realtek AC'97/ALC650 codec.

Edit: This link at FIC Shows that the FIC AU13 *also* uses the Realtek ALC650/AC97 codec!!!

 

[KieranCoghlan]

NVIDIA SoundStorm Certification
The SoundStorm? Program ensures NVIDIA nForce?2-based motherboards and turnkey PC systems are designed and produced to the high-quality standards defined by NVIDIA and Dolby Laboratories. This involves passing rigorous tests conducted by NVIDIA and Dolby Laboratories for Dolby® Digital 5.1 compliance, connectivity, and availability to consumers for the best out-of-box audio experience possible.

 

[SilverBack]

Yup you're right, I didn't check the Fic's specs.


In the post at the start of the thread you listed the Gigabyte GA-7N400.
"The board I'm considering is the Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2."

This is the Chipset:
NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra 400 System Platform Processor (SPP)
Media and Communications Processor - Turbo (MCP-T)
Super I/O: ITE IT8712F chip
Silicon Image sil3112A controller
GigaRAID ATA 133 RAID controller
Realtek 8201 LAN PHY Chip
Realtek ALC650 Audio AC'97 Codec
2 x 4M bit flash ROM

more about that particular Motherboard.

Here is a quick list of soundstorm boards at newegg using thier hunt feature:
soundstorm

I'm learning something here as well.
List of Nforce boards with and without Soundstorm certification.
Apparently there may be different "standards" of soundstorm capabilities.
It would seem some boards use a Realtec with a soundstorm encoder.
I think I would look at the list of motherboards with the YES in it's certified column.

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Yeah, I knew that the GA-7n400 Pro2 uses the Realtek audio codec. All Gigabyte mobos do, AFAIK.

Soundstorm is just a quality certification, not a codec, or technology, or algorythm or anything like that.

So, I'm not looking for a soundstorm mobo, per se. It's fine by me if the mobo doesn't have soundstorm certification, as long as it does the real-time dolby-digital 5.1 encoding.

I'm really just wondering if anyone knows if the onboard audio codec is bypassed when using the nForce MCP for audio. It seems to me that it would be, but I don't know.

Thanks again for any and all help!

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Check out this page at Tom's Hardware...

 

[Jeff7]

For nForce2 audio, get one with the MCP-T southbridge - the "-T" is what indicates that the southbridge has the good sound (in addition to other features like Firewire). MCP does not have soundstorm qualities. And as you pointed out correctly, Soundstorm is just a "certification." My Epox 8RDA+ uses the nForce2 audio (MCP-T), but it is not Soundstorm certified, because (IIRC) it lacks the optical output on the motherboard. And yes, many nForce2 boards use the Realtek ALC650 as the codec, which simply translates the digital signals from the southbridge into analog ones that the speakers can use.

 

[KieranCoghlan]

Jeff7,

So, if the Realtek chips are only used for analog output, and I want to use the digital out of the MCP to my surround receiver, the Realtek chips should be bypassed, correct? Thanks...

 

[3sixes]

KieranCoghlan

Sorry I cant answer your specific digital question,
However I did want to make sure that you understood that there is a difference in the giga nforce2 boards
Only the 7nnxp and the( now discontinued )7N400 pro utilize the nvidia apu -aka- soundstorm.

The pro2 and the others to follow do not, Just a word of caution, Im active in the gigabyte nforce2 forums and
this is a common topic.

Research carefully

3sixes -aka- dafanman

 

[KieranCoghlan]

3sixes,

Thanks for that heads up! That's a major bummer, as I was about to buy the 7N400pro2. What is (are) the URL(s) for the gigabyte nforce2 forum(s)?

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
For nForce2 audio, get one with the MCP-T southbridge - the "-T" is what indicates that the southbridge has the good sound (in addition to other features like Firewire). MCP does not have soundstorm qualities. And as you pointed out correctly, Soundstorm is just a "certification." My Epox 8RDA+ uses the nForce2 audio (MCP-T), but it is not Soundstorm certified, because (IIRC) it lacks the optical output on the motherboard. And yes, many nForce2 boards use the Realtek ALC650 as the codec, which simply translates the digital signals from the southbridge into analog ones that the speakers can use.

The optical output is on the MB for the Epox 8RDA+ (i have one), the thing is you must buy the bracket seperately if you didn't get one in the box. I have rev 1.1 board and it didn't come with the bracket.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: KieranCoghlan
Jeff7,

So, if the Realtek chips are only used for analog output, and I want to use the digital out of the MCP to my surround receiver, the Realtek chips should be bypassed, correct? Thanks...

Hm, don't know now. The block diagram here, about 70% of the way down the page of the 8RDA+ shows the SPDIF connector hooked into the ALC-650 chip.
Perhaps Peter will wander into this thread and offer his expertise on the subject.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: KieranCoghlan
Jeff7,

So, if the Realtek chips are only used for analog output, and I want to use the digital out of the MCP to my surround receiver, the Realtek chips should be bypassed, correct? Thanks...

My undertsanding of how Dolby Digital works is that the nForce APU encodes the surround sound data in a game into a stream of Dolby Digital AC3 data that is sent into your receiver. It travels THROUGH the ALC650 on its was out of the motherboard, but the ALC650 does not modify the data in any way. Once the data gets to your receiver, then it is decoded, amplified and sent to the appropriate speakers. The same thing happens with DVD Dolby Digital tracks, but I don't think that the APU gets involved in any re-encoding of the data here, but simply acts as a conduit for the DVD software to output the Dolby track directly to the S/PDIF (Heck, WinDVD may even bypass the APU completely and access the ALC650 directly - does anyone know the nitty gritty of how it outputs to S/PDIF when you select that option?)

In all this discussion we have kinda forgotten the whole digital part in Dolby Digital. You can almost connect your data source to the receiver with a pair of tin cans and a clothesline and as long as all the ones and zeros get to the receiver fast enough it will sound just fine. That's why I laugh at people who spend big bucks on Monster brand optical cables. You need good, beefy well shielded cables for all your other connections, but fiber optic cable doesn't care about RF intereference or what guage the cable is. A cheap optical is just as good as an expensive one, because you either get all the Dolby and DTS data or you don't. There is no "quality" difference like you have with analog connections.

So I think it really doesn't matter what kind of CODEC you have on your NF2 board if you are running it off of Digital out into a receiver or a set of Z-680s. Like I said, the APU does all the encoding and the ALC650 just passes the data on to the decoder in the receiver. Now, different CODECs will make a big difference in sound quality in when you are using the analog outs, but Kieran doesn't want to mess with that. He sould be fine with the Gigabyte he's looking at so long as he sticks to the digital output. (And the ALC650 on my A7N8X isn't all THAT bad in the first place. I can hear a bit of noise, but nothing bad).