NHL playoffs 2011 thread

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silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
It's no surprise those who are rooting [or live in] Vancouver think the hit was clean and legit. Glad to see Rome get what he deserved. Let's hope Burrows screws up and gets what he should've deserved from the biting incident..

Watch the NHL's own rule 48 video. There is an entire section on legal hits that involve head contact and Rome's isn't illegal by those standards. 1/2 second late is all I can see that is wrong with it according to the rules.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
Well I'm surprised. I suppose it was foolish of me to expect the NHL to not shoot from the hip.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Apparently the NHL has an unwritten rule (not in the rulebook... I checked) that a hit must be made within 1/2 second or 15 frames of video. This one was very close to 1 second, so it is by their definition late.

The NHL also has a video of what is a legal hit and you may make contact with a player's head so long as it isn't the primary point of contact. In this case the vast majority of Rome's arm was in Horton's chest. There looks to be some shoulder-head contact but this much is explicitly allowed by the NHL. The unfortunate part is when Horton's head hits the ice as he falls.

If that hit happened 1/2 second earlier, it'd be 100% legal.

I would love for someone to go back to the Chara hit on Patchioretty and see if its more than 15 frames, I would be shocked if it wasn't.
 

Wordplay

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2010
1,318
1
81
Hopefully Shanahan is more consistent from here on out with suspensions compared to Colon Campbell.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
If it had been a Sedin hitting someone like Peverley, there probably wouldn't be a suspension. Chara on Pacioretty, no suspension. Rome on Horton, suspension. Marchand on Kesler, suspension.

Ovechkin gets away with murder all year.

To be honest though, the suspension is probably also partially motivated by the fact that they want to keep this incident from affecting the rest of the playoffs. If Rome's in, he's a target. By suspending him, you keep that aspect out of the game, at least the majority of it anyways. I'm alright with it for this reason, but I would also like to see some more consistency with the rules on this, even if it means kicking Ovechkin out for a few games.

While I'd like to see a good SCF with Horton in it, the fact that he's out and Rome is too is probably a net benefit to the Canucks. Hamhuis will be back soon (hopefully), and the Canucks still have two NHL ready defensemen in Ballard (who should be playing anyways IMO) and Tanev who can easily step in. Losing Horton is a pretty big blow to the Bruins.

You must be a huge homer or something if you think Ovechkin is out to hurt people and should be suspended. Please name one player he's even knocked out of a game this season. Oh wait, you can't. Because it. didn't. happen. The only questionable hit he's had in his entire career was on Gonchar (a good friend of his outside of hockey) with the knee on knee that knocked him out of the playoffs. Yes, Ovi does leave his feet but he's not headhunting and is penalized appropriately (see Tampa series who made him pay on the power play). Haters gonna hate.

Glad Rome got 4 games for his dirty late hit. Not that it matters much, because Rome is a nobody and Horton is a star. However, Boston gets the better of this and Rome will be the goat if they lose this series. Boston now has something to rally around whereas before they looked like lethargic college players who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their SOG.

"We just said, 'Stay with it, do it for [Horton]' and you saw the results," Dennis Seidenberg said.
...
The Bruins award a vintage jacket to the most valuable player after wins. It was hanging in Horton's stall after the game.

We might have ourselves a series now.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
You must be a huge homer or something if you think Ovechkin is out to hurt people and should be suspended. Please name one player he's even knocked out of a game this season. Oh wait, you can't. Because it. didn't. happen. The only questionable hit he's had in his entire career was on Gonchar (a good friend of his outside of hockey) with the knee on knee that knocked him out of the playoffs. Yes, Ovi does leave his feet but he's not headhunting and is penalized appropriately (see Tampa series who made him pay on the power play). Haters gonna hate.

Glad Rome got 4 games for his dirty late hit. Not that it matters much, because Rome is a nobody and Horton is a star. However, Boston gets the better of this and Rome will be the goat if they lose this series. Boston now has something to rally around whereas before they looked like lethargic college players who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their SOG.

We might have ourselves a series now.

Ovechkin jumps at hits, hits high, and got a whopping $2500 fine for a slew foot. I'm not saying he should get expelled from the league, but a suspension once in a while would be apt. He's a repeat offender too and has been disciplined multiple times by the league, including the 2 game suspension for his hit on Campbell. Yet it isn't enough and she shows no sign of stopping.

Chara's hit on Pacioretty definitely deserved a suspension, especially considering Mike Murphy's two reasons for suspending Rome: It was late, and the extent of the injury. The hit on Pacioretty was also late, and it fractured several vertebrae. No suspension.

This has nothing to do with homerism and everything to do with whether the hitter or the injured player are a star or a plug.

If it had been Peverley on Sedin, there'd be a suspension. If it had been Sedin on Peverley, there wouldn't be a suspension. It goes both ways.

For the record, I don't have a problem with this being a 4 game suspension, so long as similar hits are always dealt with in the same way, regardless of names.
 
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silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
I mean, look at this: Chara on Pacioretty

The best I can figure, Pacioretty last touches the puck at about 20.5 seconds, and Chara makes contact at about 19.5 seconds (remaining that is). The time difference is about 1 second (it's hard to be accurate with youtube), which is about the same time difference in the Rome hit.

Horton has a severe concussion. Pacioretty had a severe concussion and several fractured vertebrae. Mike Murphy's reasons for the suspension were lateness of the hit and extent of injury. Rome's hit was in open ice. Chara put a guy into the stantion.

Chara and Rome were both given interference penalties and game misconducts for their hits and both incidents took place this year.

So why is Chara not suspended at all and Rome gets 4 games?

It's probably because Chara and Horton are stars, and Rome and Pacioretty are plugs. There's no other substantive difference.
 
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actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
It's probably because Chara and Horton are stars, and Rome and Pacioretty are plugs. There's no other substantive difference.

It's not probably the reason, it's exactly the reason.

The time isn't the only thing you need to look at for a late hit though. In Rome's case, Horton skated two strides, somewhat changed directions, and Rome came at him sideways. Finishing a check usually has the hitter going straight at someone and continuing on what they are doing.

In Chara's case it was a more usual definition of finishing a check, just that it happened way late.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Ovechkin jumps at hits, hits high, and got a whopping $2500 fine for a slew foot. I'm not saying he should get expelled from the league, but a suspension once in a while would be apt. He's a repeat offender too and has been disciplined multiple times by the league, including the 2 game suspension for his hit on Campbell. Yet it isn't enough and she shows no sign of stopping.

Chara's hit on Pacioretty definitely deserved a suspension, especially considering Mike Murphy's two reasons for suspending Rome: It was late, and the extent of the injury. The hit on Pacioretty was also late, and it fractured several vertebrae. No suspension.

This has nothing to do with homerism and everything to do with whether the hitter or the injured player are a star or a plug.

If it had been Peverley on Sedin, there'd be a suspension. If it had been Sedin on Peverley, there wouldn't be a suspension. It goes both ways.

For the record, I don't have a problem with this being a 4 game suspension, so long as similar hits are always dealt with in the same way, regardless of names.

Ovechkin doesn't elbow to the head and never has, and last I checked, hitting high is legal as long as it's with the shoulder.

The Campbell suspension from last year wasn't even a hit, it was a push into the boards at high speed. Players shove each other every game, and it wasn't for dirty headhunting like you describe (he jumps high at players!). That wouldn't even be a suspension in the playoffs, Richards/Connolly was a prime example. Proof:
Ovi's push:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb6EfttNhGI
Richards' push:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SHMEVwHuG4

Ovi's push just knocked the wind out of the guy, and I think it was a questionable suspension. Should have only been a major. If that's the worst you can find on Ovi, then your argument is very weak.

Chara on MaxPax, definitely agree. It was late and it was flagrant, and I'm still salivating at seeing what Montreal will do next season in retaliation. They haven't forgetten, you can bet on that. But like others have said, playoff suspensions are a whole nother beast. It's more of an eye for an eye, as in you take their player out for an entire series on something dirty then they're not going to let you off easy. If the player hit is ok, then no suspension (see Bolland's hit on Bieksa, Richards hit above). The league can claim that it's not affected by whether a player gets knocked out of a series/season but we all know it's horseshit (one thing I actually agree with Don Cherry on). In the playoffs, anyway.
 
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silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Ovechkin doesn't elbow to the head and never has, and last I checked, hitting high is legal as long as it's with the shoulder.

The Campbell suspension from last year wasn't even a hit, it was a push into the boards at high speed. Players shove each other every game, and it wasn't for dirty headhunting like you describe (he jumps high at players!). That wouldn't even be a suspension in the playoffs, Richards/Connolly was a prime example. Proof:
Ovi's push:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb6EfttNhGI
Richards' push:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SHMEVwHuG4

Ovi's push just knocked the wind out of the guy, and I think it was a questionable suspension. Should have only been a major. If that's the worst you can find on Ovi, then your argument is very weak.

Chara on MaxPax, definitely agree. It was late and it was flagrant, and I'm still salivating at seeing what Montreal will do next season in retaliation. They haven't forgetten, you can bet on that. But like others have said, playoff suspensions are a whole nother beast. It's more of an eye for an eye, as in you take their player out for an entire series on something dirty then they're not going to let you off easy. If the player hit is ok, then no suspension (see Bolland's hit on Bieksa, Richards hit above). The league can claim that it's not affected by whether a player gets knocked out of a series/season but we all know it's horseshit (one thing I actually agree with Don Cherry on). In the playoffs, anyway.

My point with Ovi is that he is getting lighter treatment because he is a star. I think it was Don Cherry who had a segment about him a while ago that showed a bunch of his slew foots and knees. He's been fined at least once and suspended at least once, in addition to the amount of things he has done which haven't gotten anything. He's a repeat offender. It's nothing really too bad, but it is outside the rules. He plays on the edge and I'd love to have him on my team, but he does get some leeway because he scores goals. If he was a plug, they'd be throwing the book at him harder.

Here's a compilation of Ovi's BS that he keeps pulling

As for Bolland's hit on Bieksa, I agree that there was nothing really wrong with it (well, nothing against the rules anyways). However, I think he would have been suspended on a 'dangerous hit' or 'late hit' charge if Bieksa had been knocked out for the playoffs with a severe concussion after a trip to the hospital. Bieksa's head did hit the glass after all, so it is conceivable that a concussion is a possible outcome.

The rhetoric with playoff suspensions is that they are worth 5x a regular season suspension, so this is really like a 20 gamer for Rome.

Goddammit, I hate it when guys go down like that. Maybe they should all go back to wooden sticks and thinner pads.
 
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silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Someone pointed this play out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxLs-g9lPEc&feature=player_embedded

Ryder on Blair Jones in the ECF (so like 2 weeks ago). Jones didn't have the puck and never did, Ryder turned and saw him AND jumped. No suspension. This is freaking BS.

Again, I don't care if you want to suspend Rome, but you can't suspend him and NOT suspend Ryder on a play like this.



And another:

Jamie McGinn on Aaron Rome WCF game 3

Rome was out 3 games with an injury after that hit. No suspension...
 
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Dominato3r

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2008
5,109
1
0
Surprised by the suspension, but honestly I'd rather see Ballard play, and after this series is over I hope AV finally explains to us what's up between him and Ballard. It's ridiculous.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Someone pointed this play out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxLs-g9lPEc&feature=player_embedded

Ryder on Blair Jones in the ECF (so like 2 weeks ago). Jones didn't have the puck and never did, Ryder turned and saw him AND jumped. No suspension. This is freaking BS.

Again, I don't care if you want to suspend Rome, but you can't suspend him and NOT suspend Ryder on a play like this.

That didn't really look like a hit so much as a collision. They both turned toward each other at the same time and I think Ryder's jump was a poor attempt to avoid the collision, not to hit. If he wanted to hit him, don't you think it would have been a lot more effective to drop his shoulder and hit him head on rather than a glancing shot with his hip?

It kind of reminds me of the Steckel/Crosby collision in that a player's natural reaction to an impending collision can make it look like they intended to cause the collision. But some Penguins homers actually think that was an intentional hit.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
That didn't really look like a hit so much as a collision. They both turned toward each other at the same time and I think Ryder's jump was a poor attempt to avoid the collision, not to hit. If he wanted to hit him, don't you think it would have been a lot more effective to drop his shoulder and hit him head on rather than a glancing shot with his hip?

It kind of reminds me of the Steckel/Crosby collision in that a player's natural reaction to an impending collision can make it look like they intended to cause the collision. But some Penguins homers actually think that was an intentional hit.

I thought so too, but I can't see it that way anymore. Look at where Ryder is looking the entire time.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
Well.. we can compare past hits and cry foul about the Rome/Horton hit. The "experts" [those who have actually played in the NHL and who are also are commentators] think the Rome/Horton hit was late. Punishment has been handed out and life goes on.

Same crap happens in house league hockey - the refs are not consistent with the penalties [some will call a lot of penalties while a few will only call one if you literally punch someone else in the face]. Very frustrating to play in that kind of environment.

Game 4 is going to be very interesting to say the least.

- silverpig said :"Goddammit, I hate it when guys go down like that. Maybe they should all go back to wooden sticks and thinner pads."

/agree. The gear needs to be redesigned so players are less willing to try and hurt each other - or redesign the gear so it absorbs more of the impact. It's getting ridiculous. New rules won't prevent this kind of crap from happening either.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Like others have mentioned I think Shanahan is going to take a much sterner stance on hits. Remember he has been on a committee for a while now that was looking into what could be done stop all the concussions.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
And another:

Jamie McGinn on Aaron Rome WCF game 3

Rome was out 3 games with an injury after that hit. No suspension...

That's been beaten to death in this thread. It wasn't a suspendable offense (simply boarding, no elbow to the head, didn't leave his feet), and a major was appropriated only because Rome was hurt. It should have been a minor IMO, and analysts like Jeremy Roenick said the same thing.

The hit on Ryder, didn't see that game but it looked a like it could have been a suspendable offense for flagrant charging (not to mention how late is was). Just like Bickell jumping into Bieksa's head (not late tho) which didn't even draw a penalty for charging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZTAqvq_LE4

I think they didn't call the Bickell hit because of what Torres did to Seabrook in the same area behind the net, which allegedly is legal headhunting territory. I can guarantee you that if Bieksa was knocked out, Bickell would have had a stiff suspension.

The league may not be consistent but they did get the Rome>Horton hit right. The league reviewed it and determined it was about a full second late, which was obvious. No, not a half second, a just about a full second. Which is unacceptable.
"I thought it was a late hit," NHL Senior Vice President of Hockey Operations Mike Murphy said, addressing the media in Boston. "I thought that the body was contacted. But I also thought that the head was hit. It caused a serious injury to Nathan Horton. So the key components are the late hit, which I had it close to a second late. We have our own formula at NHL Hockey Operations for determining late hits, and it was late. We saw the seriousness of the injury with Nathan on the ice last night.

To make things worse, we have morons like Vignault and Sedin opening their big fat mouths about to give Boston even more motivation:
BOSTON -- The Vancouver Canucks disagree with the NHL's decision to suspend Aaron Rome for the rest of the Stanley Cup Final for his tardy hit on Nathan Horton that left the Boston winger with a concussion.

"It was a little bit late, but anybody that's played this game knows that you have to make a decision in a fraction of a second," Canucks coach Alain Vigneault said. "He's engaged in the hit. I don't know how the League could come up with that decision really."
...
"He passes the puck and Romer steps up on him," Henrik Sedin said. "It's not like it's the blind side. I think the guy didn't even know he was there. I thought it was a good hit."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=565138

Morons. No, it wasn't a little late, it came at twice the allowable time to finish a check after a guy passes the puck. They shouldn't even comment on it to the media if they were smart, now they look like fools. Just stfu and focus on Game 4 like real men are supposed to act, as in "It's behind us, I don't think anything more needs to be said on the matter. We are focusing on the next game.".
 
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mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Will Rome be let on the ice to hoist the cup if the Cs win?

Yes

To make things worse, we have morons like Vignault and Sedin opening their big fat mouths about to give Boston even more motivation:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=565138

Morons. No, it wasn't a little late, it came at twice the allowable time to finish a check after a guy passes the puck. They shouldn't even comment on it to the media if they were smart, now they look like fools. Just stfu and focus on Game 4 like real men are supposed to act, as in "It's behind us, I don't think anything more needs to be said on the matter. We are focusing on the next game.".

It's nonsense for them to even say he was "engaged in the hit" and had to make a decision - he was skating backward when Horton passed the puck.
 
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Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,670
4
0
Rome got what he deserved. Even if he didn't mean for Horton to get so seriously injured He knew exactly whom he was cheap shotting: by far Boston's most dangerous scorer in these playoffs.

The details don't even matter so much, but the result of his actions do. He chose to hit Horton late, and now he has to man up and accept the result of his late hit. Vancouver fans should encourage him to do so.

If Campbell hadn't been injured Ovechkin wouldn't have been suspended. The result of your actions do matter.
 
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