NHTSA: SUVs not safe enough

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: nord1899

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

I love how everyone always uses this in their argument. The car is supposed to crumple. Its designed that way. The car absorbs as much of the impact as it can so that the passengers can survive. Of course when a Suburban and a Geo Metro collide, one will crumple alot more than the other. What happens when two Suburbans hit each other?

Suburbans don't hit each other. They respect their territories and give each other a wide berth on the tundra. They are rarely seen in groups, excluding watering holes and pre-teen soccer games.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: nord1899

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

I love how everyone always uses this in their argument. The car is supposed to crumple. Its designed that way. The car absorbs as much of the impact as it can so that the passengers can survive. Of course when a Suburban and a Geo Metro collide, one will crumple alot more than the other. What happens when two Suburbans hit each other?

The fabric of space and time are torn open, and the 2 vehicles are removed from this space-time continum.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Originally posted by: nord1899

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

I love how everyone always uses this in their argument. The car is supposed to crumple. Its designed that way. The car absorbs as much of the impact as it can so that the passengers can survive. Of course when a Suburban and a Geo Metro collide, one will crumple alot more than the other. What happens when two Suburbans hit each other?

Suburbans don't hit each other. They respect their territories and give each other a wide berth on the tundra. They are rarely seen in groups, excluding watering holes and pre-teen soccer games.

LOL

ZV

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

Yes and no, YOU buy the added safety at the expense of the other less heavy traffic participants. No if only SUVs were on the road more fatalitie would happen because the SUV in itself is usually not as safe as a car due to the way they are constructed. SUV are very simple vehicles with a body on frame structure (maybe the newest ones not anymore) This structure is certainly good for off roads but in an accident it is very dabgerous. It is stiff and it doesnt deform and cannot absorb as much energy as the crash engineered self supporting car body. In a crash the car bodies crumble up in a manner that was designed, absorbing the energy so lower forces are acting on you.
When u have this stiff body on frame structure in a crash the forces acting on you are higher so basically the speed at which the impact is fatal will be lower as in a car (crash against a wall in all of these cases) But yes, since in real life there are cars u hit u gain safety by lowering and using the crash partners safety measures.

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

Yes and no, YOU buy the added safety at the expense of the other less heavy traffic participants. No if only SUVs were on the road more fatalitie would happen because the SUV in itself is usually not as safe as a car due to the way they are constructed. SUV are very simple vehicles with a body on frame structure (maybe the newest ones not anymore) This structure is certainly good for off roads but in an accident it is very dabgerous. It is stiff and it doesnt deform and cannot absorb as much energy as the crash engineered self supporting car body. In a crash the car bodies crumble up in a manner that was designed, absorbing the energy so lower forces are acting on you.
When u have this stiff body on frame structure in a crash the forces acting on you are higher so basically the speed at which the impact is fatal will be lower as in a car (crash against a wall in all of these cases) But yes, since in real life there are cars u hit u gain safety by lowering and using the crash partners safety measures.

I can see the advantage of crumple zones in high-speed crashes. Fortunately for me, the only accidents I have been in, I was either moving slowly or stopped altogether. A few years ago I was rear-ended while stopped in a traffic jam. I was driving a full-size pickup and the only damage was a slight "star" in the chrome of the bumper where it was directly mounted to the frame rails on each side. Unfortunately for the car that hit me, the corresponding damage on his car pushed the front of the car even with the firewall, essentially stacking the grill, radiator, and engine directly at the base of his windshield. A pretty tough lesson on watching where you are going...

 

[nord1899]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jmman
I am sure that the rollover danger is higher, but your total risk is much lower driving a big SUV. Think about it. Would you rather be in a serious accident in a big SUV or a Geo metro. The sheer mass of the larger vehicle will add more protection, where the geo metro will crumple like a beer can.....

Yes and no, YOU buy the added safety at the expense of the other less heavy traffic participants. No if only SUVs were on the road more fatalitie would happen because the SUV in itself is usually not as safe as a car due to the way they are constructed. SUV are very simple vehicles with a body on frame structure (maybe the newest ones not anymore) This structure is certainly good for off roads but in an accident it is very dabgerous. It is stiff and it doesnt deform and cannot absorb as much energy as the crash engineered self supporting car body. In a crash the car bodies crumble up in a manner that was designed, absorbing the energy so lower forces are acting on you.
When u have this stiff body on frame structure in a crash the forces acting on you are higher so basically the speed at which the impact is fatal will be lower as in a car (crash against a wall in all of these cases) But yes, since in real life there are cars u hit u gain safety by lowering and using the crash partners safety measures.

I can see the advantage of crumple zones in high-speed crashes. Fortunately for me, the only accidents I have been in, I was either moving slowly or stopped altogether. A few years ago I was rear-ended while stopped in a traffic jam. I was driving a full-size pickup and the only damage was a slight "star" in the chrome of the bumper where it was directly mounted to the frame rails on each side. Unfortunately for the car that hit me, the corresponding damage on his car pushed the front of the car even with the firewall, essentially stacking the grill, radiator, and engine directly at the base of his windshield. A pretty tough lesson on watching where you are going...

I had a similar accident years ago. Back in 96, I was driving an 86 4-door Cavalier. I hit the rear end of a Ford Explorer (or similar car, dont' remember now) when I was unable to stop in time at a stoplight. My car had the front left fender (I tried to turn to the right) crushed in enough to disable the car. The SUV has a V in the bumper and probably got moved forward a few feet.

I dunno. I personally would not buy an SUV. If I needed space, I'd either get a minivan or even better something like an Audi All-Road or Volve CrossCountry. I get annoyed with SUV's on the road mostly because it exagerates the bad driving habits of the driver moreso than other vehicle classes. The drivers tend to treat them as little sports cars weaving in and out of traffic, or tailgating smaller cars (remember the SUV's headlights are higher up). Of course, I see minivans and trucks doing this too, but its more predominately done by SUV's. But I have no intention of preventing people from purchasing them.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
yay station wagons!

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
God, do you think researchers could tell us something we DON'T already know.

Every see that study that showed that blunt trauma to the heads of lab mice caused memory loss?

 

[nord1899]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: rbloedow
God, do you think researchers could tell us something we DON'T already know.

Every see that study that showed that blunt trauma to the heads of lab mice caused memory loss?

Studies have shown that research causes cancer in rats.

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: rbloedow
God, do you think researchers could tell us something we DON'T already know.

Ever see that study that showed that blunt trauma to the heads of lab mice caused memory loss?

"YEEHAA!!!. Thump him harder, Karl!!! Dance, mouse, dance!!!"

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Motorcycles need to be equipped with roll cages and the riders should be strapped securely to the frame.

Actually Dianese is working on an "air bag" vest that would instantly inflate and protec the rider's head and back in the event of a get-off or collision.

Check it out here (with vids of the vest in action!).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
I started looking into this after hearing about that quote this morning. Looking at the NHTSA's web site, you can query the Fatality Analysis Reporting System here. According to the most recent data, 2001, there were a total of 37, 795 fatal crashes. Of those there were:

4,568 2-door sedans, hardtop, coupes.
10,933 4-door sedan, hardtop
2,606 compact utility (Jeep Wrangler, etc.)
409 large utility (Jeep Cherokee, etc.)
152 utility station wagon (Suburban, etc.)

Now, looking at those numbers, you are over 30 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident driving a 2- or 4-door sedan than if you are driving a Suburban. Which is safer?

those aren't normalized by million vehicle-miles, so they're pretty much worthless.

 

[EndGame]

Don't make sh1t to me, I'll buy what I want to buy!

Sure the SUV's are more dangerous when morons whom don't know how/can't handle them are driving them, that goes for nearly every vehicle though.

Sure a sporty car is more agile, but your going to be just as dead when you crash that car as someone whom crashes an SUV.

As for mpg, LOL I have a buddy whom pulls his boat with a mini-van, I pull mine with an extended cab full size pickup, we take a trip to the lake pulling our boats and families as well as all our gear. His is crammed full and his family is uncomfortable the whole way there, all our things are in the back of my truck and the whole family is comfortable in the cab, BUT, the kicker is, he gets a blazing 15mpg when pulling his boat, I get 18 with my full size pickup!

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Motorcycles need to be equipped with roll cages and the riders should be strapped securely to the frame.

Actually Dianese is working on an "air bag" vest that would instantly inflate and protec the rider's head and back in the event of a get-off or collision.

Check it out here (with vids of the vest in action!).

Will that be able to take sliding though? If you fall and slide then slam into the guard rail on the side of the road unless those airbags have some sort of skid plates you'll have torn through the airbags before they do any good.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Motorcycles need to be equipped with roll cages and the riders should be strapped securely to the frame.

Actually Dianese is working on an "air bag" vest that would instantly inflate and protec the rider's head and back in the event of a get-off or collision.

Check it out here (with vids of the vest in action!).

Will that be able to take sliding though? If you fall and slide then slam into the guard rail on the side of the road unless those airbags have some sort of skid plates you'll have torn through the airbags before they do any good.

I'm sure they'll make them out of ballistic nylon or something that can withstand a slide.

 

[worth]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
I started looking into this after hearing about that quote this morning. Looking at the NHTSA's web site, you can query the Fatality Analysis Reporting System here. According to the most recent data, 2001, there were a total of 37, 795 fatal crashes. Of those there were:

4,568 2-door sedans, hardtop, coupes.
10,933 4-door sedan, hardtop
2,606 compact utility (Jeep Wrangler, etc.)
409 large utility (Jeep Cherokee, etc.)
152 utility station wagon (Suburban, etc.)

Now, looking at those numbers, you are over 30 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident driving a 2- or 4-door sedan than if you are driving a Suburban. Which is safer?

You never took a statistics course, have you? Using BooneRebel Statistics, one could "show" that Somalian-Americans are 5,000 less likely to die in a driving accident.