Nice bicycles are stupid expensive.

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Markups on these are pretty high. The high-end bikes don't really surprise me as they move so few units that, for example, a carbon frame in a particular size with its cast and processes to create must cost a lot. I don't know how various parts like a derailleur can continue to cost so much even after so many units ship, though.

If you race you need a half-decent bike, but plenty of people overspend and under-train and no bike is going to make up for that. In a tri this past weekend I shot past a guy on the bike leg and my $1000 bike was worth less than his rear _wheel_ (carbon disc wheel).

I imagine it's like any sport. You can buy more expensive and it's a little better, but diminishing returns. Surely a pro cyclist could turn up on a $500 to any local criterium and destroy the competition, just as Tiger Woods would still play a great game on a set of clubs costing a few hundred bucks from Dicks.

mark ups are NOT that high on bikes no matter what price range. In fact the %age mark-up is pretty much the same across the board for the bike stores.

yes they are. $600 bikes usually have $200-250 worth of profit.

 

[SuperSix]

I have a nice Specialized "Rock Hard special" I won from Microsoft. Awesome mountain bike - I really need to ride more.

 

[TallBill]

Just got a nice bike from my uncle. It's 25+ years old and needs some work, but it'll be a beauty when I'm done. Gonna cost me maybe $250 to be able to ride. Helmet, shoes, clips (has old style pedals), tires, tubes, new seat post. All campagnolo parts, and I believe that the frame is as well.

 

[Beanie46]

Originally posted by: Gibson486

yes they are. $600 bikes usually have $200-250 worth of profit.

No they don't. Ever sold bicycles? Ever bought them wholesale from, say Trek or anyone else?

Thought not.....

Markup on bicycles is incredibly low......top end bicycles, those in the high four figure range, do indeed have 20%-25% markups, but low end bicycles, those under $500 have markups in the 12%-15% range. A $600 bicycle will cost the shop like $500 or more, before shipping costs. Those $250 cheapie bikes in the shop will have wholesale prices of like $150-$175, before shipping, and the shop pays for shipping, always.

(How do I know? Husband worked/was manager of a bicycle shop for approx. 7 years....sold Trek, Lightspeed, Gary Fisher, Klein, Cannondale, Schwinn, Giant, among other brands.)

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Gibson486

yes they are. $600 bikes usually have $200-250 worth of profit.

No they don't. Ever sold bicycles? Ever bought them wholesale from, say Trek or anyone else?

Thought not.....

Markup on bicycles is incredibly low......top end bicycles, those in the high four figure range, do indeed have 20%-25% markups, but low end bicycles, those under $500 have markups in the 12%-15% range. A $600 bicycle will cost the shop like $500 or more, before shipping costs. Those $250 cheapie bikes in the shop will have wholesale prices of like $150-$175, before shipping, and the shop pays for shipping, always.

(How do I know? Husband worked/was manager of a bicycle shop for approx. 7 years....sold Trek, Lightspeed, Gary Fisher, Klein, Cannondale, Schwinn, Giant, among other brands.)

Ding! Winner.
I worked in a bike store for 8+ years.
My best friend's family has owned the store for 50+ years. As Beanie said, mark ups (on the low bikes) are incredible low percentage wise. Even on the high-end stuff, thew markups are a tad higher but RARELY do you sell the bikes for their list price anyways. Those ALWAYS are negotiable.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

designs have stayed the same? Have you stepped into a bike store in the past 20 years?

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Though, I would also concede that hand crafting will add a fair amount to the cost of a bike. I just done see some ground braking design changes going on. There are still peddles, a gear shifter, a seat, and brakes, and they still operate in about the exact same way as they did 20 years ago. (The modern gear shifter design dates back to the 1950's)

 

[akshatp]

Are Diamondbacks any good? I just bought a couple (one for me one for wife) havent picked them up yet. If anyone wants to help, Ive got specific information for them. (model, cost, etc)

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Bicycle geometry has changed. Bike now typically have shorter wheel bases, sloping top tubes and are more aerodynamic among many other things.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Riceninja
yeah, i know ppl making 40k a year that blow 2000 on a bike. i lol'd hard. like dude...you're barely paying the rent.

I love how people just don't get other people and their interests ever.. I'm a student, I have almost no money, but I make sure to have a nice bike because it's my #1 interest and my favorite thing to do with my time, bar none.. Cycling is my life..

my income, less than $20k/year, mountain bike, ~$3000ish (CAD)

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Though, I would also concede that hand crafting will add a fair amount to the cost of a bike. I just done see some ground braking design changes going on. There are still peddles, a gear shifter, a seat, and brakes, and they still operate in about the exact same way as they did 20 years ago. (The modern gear shifter design dates back to the 1950's)

Wrong again. The first Carbon Fiber bikes used carbon fiber tubing epoxied to aluminum lugs/components(ie. Head tube, chain stays). Over time, more parts of the frame have been able to be comprised of Carbon Fiber to finally a monocoque construction.

In that time, the ability to change the characteristics of the Carbon Fiber for particular areas of the frame for more strength, rigidity, lightness, etc has evolved.

B/c of Carbon Fiber, design of bikes have also evolved drastically, particularly in the downhill and full-suspension mtb realms.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420
No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.[/quote]

Bicycle geometry has changed. Bike now typically have shorter wheel bases, sloping top tubes and are more aerodynamic among many other things.[/quote]

A more aerodynamic bicycle? The bike has such a minimal cross-section that making it more aerodynamic is akin to bicyclists shaving their legs. The rider is where the most drag is found. (hence the spandex bicycling uniforms.)

Geometry has changed, but not enough to justify huge bike prices. It has been a gradual enough process that I doubt a huge amount of developmental effort has been put into it.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Though, I would also concede that hand crafting will add a fair amount to the cost of a bike. I just done see some ground braking design changes going on. There are still peddles, a gear shifter, a seat, and brakes, and they still operate in about the exact same way as they did 20 years ago. (The modern gear shifter design dates back to the 1950's)

Please. You're just speaking ignorantly now.

Lets look at brakes alone:

Side-Cantilever -> center pull -> V-Brakes -> hydraulic-> disc brakes
Lets also take into consideration the countless variables of each design.

Just calling it a "gear shifter" shows you are talking about things you have no idea about.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Bicycle geometry has changed. Bike now typically have shorter wheel bases, sloping top tubes and are more aerodynamic among many other things.

A more aerodynamic bicycle? The bike has such a minimal cross-section that making it more aerodynamic is akin to bicyclists shaving their legs. The rider is where the most drag is found. (hence the spandex bicycling uniforms.)

Geometry has changed, but not enough to justify huge bike prices. It has been a gradual enough process that I doubt a huge amount of developmental effort has been put into it.

meanwhile I watch the ITT in the Tour de France and they are riding aerodynamic wonders.

Edit: you don know the main reason why they shave their legs right? Hint: its not for "aerodynamics"

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Bicycle geometry has changed. Bike now typically have shorter wheel bases, sloping top tubes and are more aerodynamic among many other things.

A more aerodynamic bicycle? The bike has such a minimal cross-section that making it more aerodynamic is akin to bicyclists shaving their legs. The rider is where the most drag is found. (hence the spandex bicycling uniforms.)

Geometry has changed, but not enough to justify huge bike prices. It has been a gradual enough process that I doubt a huge amount of developmental effort has been put into it.

time trial bike? even handle bars and wheels are aero now.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Wrong again. The first Carbon Fiber bikes used carbon fiber tubing epoxied to aluminum lugs/components(ie. Head tube, chain stays). Over time, more parts of the frame have been able to be comprised of Carbon Fiber to finally a monocoque construction.

In that time, the ability to change the characteristics of the Carbon Fiber for particular areas of the frame for more strength, rigidity, lightness, etc has evolved.

B/c of Carbon Fiber, design of bikes have also evolved drastically, particularly in the downhill and full-suspension mtb realms.

How am I wrong? Carbon fiber allowing for different designs does not mean that it is a design change. It is a materials change (You know, what the bike is made out of).

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Bicycle geometry has changed. Bike now typically have shorter wheel bases, sloping top tubes and are more aerodynamic among many other things.

Correct. Standards(ie. Head tube diameter) have also changed due to the improvements(evolution) of frame materials. Geometries have evolved for more specialist activities (touring, triathletes, trial riding, xc and downhill mtbing).

 

[Safeway]

You may find it stupid, but the people participating in races do not. A $100 Wal-Mart bicycle WILL NOT LAST. It will rust into a solid chunk of crap, or the frame will snap in half going off a curb, or the rim will dent going up a curb. A solid bike can be had for less than $1000.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Though, I would also concede that hand crafting will add a fair amount to the cost of a bike. I just done see some ground braking design changes going on. There are still peddles, a gear shifter, a seat, and brakes, and they still operate in about the exact same way as they did 20 years ago. (The modern gear shifter design dates back to the 1950's)

Wrong again. The first Carbon Fiber bikes used carbon fiber tubing epoxied to aluminum lugs/components(ie. Head tube, chain stays). Over time, more parts of the frame have been able to be comprised of Carbon Fiber to finally a monocoque construction.

In that time, the ability to change the characteristics of the Carbon Fiber for particular areas of the frame for more strength, rigidity, lightness, etc has evolved.

B/c of Carbon Fiber, design of bikes have also evolved drastically, particularly in the downhill and full-suspension mtb realms.

How am I wrong? Carbon fiber allowing for different designs does not mean that it is a design change. It is a materials change (You know, what the bike is made out of).

Are you not listening? There have been countless design changes over the past 20 years. Go to a bike store and look around. VERY few bikes have a traditional "3 triangle" design anymore.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: edro
You underestimate the costs involved in engineering and fabricating a high end piece of equipment.

Me thinks you overestimate said costs. Its a bike, the biggest changes to them have come in the form of materials engineering. The designs have essentially remained the same for the last 20 years.

No, they haven't. Carbon Fiber, Full-Suspension mtb designs have evolved immensely over the last ten years.

Carbon Fiber used to be an unreliable, poorly executed design on bikes and is now being used almost exclusively by riders in the Tour de France.

Also note, high end components/bikes are almost all hand-made, adding a lot to the cost.

Carbon Fiber is not a design change, it is a materials change. The only "new" design element to bikes in the past 20 years is suspension. Doesn't leave a whole lot of work for engineers.

Though, I would also concede that hand crafting will add a fair amount to the cost of a bike. I just done see some ground braking design changes going on. There are still peddles, a gear shifter, a seat, and brakes, and they still operate in about the exact same way as they did 20 years ago. (The modern gear shifter design dates back to the 1950's)

Wrong again. The first Carbon Fiber bikes used carbon fiber tubing epoxied to aluminum lugs/components(ie. Head tube, chain stays). Over time, more parts of the frame have been able to be comprised of Carbon Fiber to finally a monocoque construction.

In that time, the ability to change the characteristics of the Carbon Fiber for particular areas of the frame for more strength, rigidity, lightness, etc has evolved.

B/c of Carbon Fiber, design of bikes have also evolved drastically, particularly in the downhill and full-suspension mtb realms.

How am I wrong? Carbon fiber allowing for different designs does not mean that it is a design change. It is a materials change (You know, what the bike is made out of).

It is a design change. The changes are not exclusively due to new materials. They are the result of quite a bit of research and development. And what about time trial bikes? Aero tubing did not exist previously. What about triathlon bikes? Completely different geometry uses completely different muscle groups.

Design changes aplenty.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Can you believe people spend $100K on cars? Or $2.5M on a house? Or pay $30 for a pizza when a frozen one is $2.50? Hell I can get a hooker for $10 instead of those high-priced "escorts" too. People are so stupid.

10 dollar hooker? awesome, leaves more money for blow

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: Beanie46

Originally posted by: Gibson486

yes they are. $600 bikes usually have $200-250 worth of profit.

No they don't. Ever sold bicycles? Ever bought them wholesale from, say Trek or anyone else?

Thought not.....

Markup on bicycles is incredibly low......top end bicycles, those in the high four figure range, do indeed have 20%-25% markups, but low end bicycles, those under $500 have markups in the 12%-15% range. A $600 bicycle will cost the shop like $500 or more, before shipping costs. Those $250 cheapie bikes in the shop will have wholesale prices of like $150-$175, before shipping, and the shop pays for shipping, always.

(How do I know? Husband worked/was manager of a bicycle shop for approx. 7 years....sold Trek, Lightspeed, Gary Fisher, Klein, Cannondale, Schwinn, Giant, among other brands.)

Ding! Winner.
I worked in a bike store for 8+ years.
My best friend's family has owned the store for 50+ years. As Beanie said, mark ups (on the low bikes) are incredible low percentage wise. Even on the high-end stuff, thew markups are a tad higher but RARELY do you sell the bikes for their list price anyways. Those ALWAYS are negotiable.

Not what I have heard/experienced. The high end bikes often have a 50% mark-up. The low end bikes are less profitable individually, but a store will move more of them.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
meanwhile I watch the ITT in the Tour de France and they are riding aerodynamic wonders.

Edit: you don know the main reason why they shave their legs right? Hint: its not for "aerodynamics"

Yes, and I watch the Olympics and see them using super aerodynamic nasa designed suits. Your point being? Of course someone who cares about speed is going to get the best bike available. Does that mean that the more aerodynamic bike helped them? Nope, at most it shaved off 1-2 seconds from their journey.

As for the shaved legs comment, I actually didn't know they shaved their legs, I was trying to use that as an example of what track runners will do for speed.