Nice bicycles are stupid expensive.

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Cogman
Dude, Cross sectional area. It ain't that big. with rounded tubes the bike is already achieving a high level of aerodynamics, and those have been around forever. Saying that the designs are night and day in aerodynamics is dumb, they aren't. The level of change is small enough to be a statistical anomaly. If bicyclists want speed, then the bike rider is where they need to focus their aerodynamic research.

No, they focus on all areas to shave time, even a second. No different than the special swimsuits worn in this year's Olympics.

Kind of my point there. Pointing out the biggest professionals out there and saying "They do it, it must be big" is retarded. To the average bike user, aerodynamics means squat. Until they get to the level of dawning skintight spandex, having a super aerodynamic bike will make no difference to them.

Again, you don't get the point. Like NASA and many other industries, the research and development placed in the high-end trickles down to the masses. ie. Full-suspension, disc-brakes, lighter frames, carbon fiber frames, etc....

A $500 dollar bike today is a whole better than a $500 bike 20 years ago.

Shens.

A Chevy Nova>any currently produced car obviously.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Safeway
The super tight LYCRA is more for being comfortable on the saddle, less about aerodynamics.

And to the average biker, aerodynamics of the bike itself are negligible.

I don't bike nearly as much as I used to bike, but at higher speeds or for longer rides, the difference in drag between a decent bike outfit vs. a baggy t-shirt is incredibly noticeable. I *hate* wearing t-shirts while biking more than 10 miles. However, out of consideration for my fellow citizens - I no longer have the physique that makes girls swarm around me - I will no longer wear a skin tight top. The pants help prevent chafing, especially on rides > 25 miles.

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Homerboy
meanwhile I watch the ITT in the Tour de France and they are riding aerodynamic wonders.

Edit: you don know the main reason why they shave their legs right? Hint: its not for "aerodynamics"

As for the shaved legs comment, I actually didn't know they shaved their legs, I was trying to use that as an example of what track runners will do for speed.

Legs aren't shaved for speed. They're shaved in anticipation of the occasional road rash injury.

As far as track runners, there's no way in hell that shaving their legs makes a noticeable difference in a 100 meter dash.

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Safeway
And cogman, hiding the front and rear brakes in the frame shaved off multiple seconds. That is just one change. Add in the aero tubing, the modified riding position, the aero wheels ... can make up a minute with the right bike.

Show me the stats to back up the claim. Was it multiple seconds for the same rider? did the rider put in EXACTALLY the same amount of energy. And could the multiple seconds be explained by the fact that human athletes tend to get better over time. (For the brakes and aero tubing).

A modified riding position WILL result in a big change, there is no doubt about that, but thats about it. Aero wheels would be in the second place, the rest of the stuff you listed will make imperceptible differences in air resistance.

If you doubt the numbers, look them up.

You possed the claim, prove it. You said it shaved off seconds, where's your numbers? I can't look up numbers that don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record

look at the records and equipment. Wonder why riders now have added close to 10km to Eddy Merckx (greatest cyclist ever) original record time? arethey better/stronger riders now?

 

[NaOH]

Wow, how can you argue that the design has not changed? Saying carbon fiber is just a material change is ignorant. Why would they use different materials if they couldn't accomplish more with it?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Safeway

"At 30 mph, aero bikes have almost 1lb less drag than standard road bicycles, giving them an enormous advantage in time trial."

p.33 High-Tech cycling second edition Edmund R. Burke, Phd. Editor

*very true!

However, for 90% of the people purchasing bikes, they're not going to be riding at 30mph for longer distances. Let's go with an assumed speed of 20mph, which is a decent pace to maintain for several miles on level ground with no wind, and we'll use the general assumption that the drag is related to velocity squared. 30mph is 1.5 times faster than 20, so it'll have 2.25 times as much drag. Thus, at 20mph, there would be about 7 ounces more drag on the regular frame. Pretty negligible to the vast majority of riders.

Oh wait, "almost 1 pound", meaning not quite 1 pound. Suppose it's 13 ounces. Then at 20mph, it's less than 6 ounces.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Safeway
And cogman, hiding the front and rear brakes in the frame shaved off multiple seconds. That is just one change. Add in the aero tubing, the modified riding position, the aero wheels ... can make up a minute with the right bike.

Show me the stats to back up the claim. Was it multiple seconds for the same rider? did the rider put in EXACTALLY the same amount of energy. And could the multiple seconds be explained by the fact that human athletes tend to get better over time. (For the brakes and aero tubing).

A modified riding position WILL result in a big change, there is no doubt about that, but thats about it. Aero wheels would be in the second place, the rest of the stuff you listed will make imperceptible differences in air resistance.

If you doubt the numbers, look them up.

You possed the claim, prove it. You said it shaved off seconds, where's your numbers? I can't look up numbers that don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record

look at the records and equipment. Wonder why riders now have added close to 10km to Eddy Merckx (greatest cyclist ever) original record time? arethey better/stronger riders now?

Cogman is just dead wrong. The change in the design of the clothing (adding dimples) saved 3 to 4 minutes over 190 km. The change from standard to time trial bicycles saved 10+ minutes.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Safeway

"At 30 mph, aero bikes have almost 1lb less drag than standard road bicycles, giving them an enormous advantage in time trial."

p.33 High-Tech cycling second edition Edmund R. Burke, Phd. Editor

*very true!

However, for 90% of the people purchasing bikes, they're not going to be riding at 30mph for longer distances. Let's go with an assumed speed of 20mph, which is a decent pace to maintain for several miles on level ground with no wind, and we'll use the general assumption that the drag is related to velocity squared. 30mph is 1.5 times faster than 20, so it'll have 2.25 times as much drag. Thus, at 20mph, there would be about 7 ounces more drag on the regular frame. Pretty negligible to the vast majority of riders.

Oh wait, "almost 1 pound", meaning not quite 1 pound. Suppose it's 13 ounces. Then at 20mph, it's less than 6 ounces.

We stopped talking about regular riders and got into an argument on bicycle design changes.

Again, for a leisure rider, none of this matters. They get a 40 pound Cruiser and call it good.

 

[glenn beck]

i found the best bang for the buck if you buy a $1000/$2000 bike is Jamis, they really seem to put really good parts on their bike for fraction of the cost

 

[lxskllr]

People get retarded over bike components. I was on the C&O trail once, and some kid(about 17) was almost in tears because he broke his ultralight crank, and didn't have the money to replace it. I suggested a used crank, or something cheap from the bike shop. He rejected it outright, due to the added weight :^S

Get a grip douche. A crank isn't gonna make that much of a difference in what /you're/ doing. Riding the C&O canal, isn't competing. A heavy crank, on a rideable bike is better than a garage ornament.

 

[Scouzer]

I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much? If you have an expensive house, you get a ton of sqft and amenities for it. If you have an expensive car, you get a finely crafted driving machine that took many thousands of engineer hours to design. With a bicycle you get.. not much.

Anyway, for people suggesting I get my front wheel fixed, it's not too bad. I just got my back wheel fixed a few weeks ago because it was so bent I couldn't ride the bike. I'm not worried about the front.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: Scouzer
I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much? If you have an expensive house, you get a ton of sqft and amenities for it. If you have an expensive car, you get a finely crafted driving machine that took many thousands of engineer hours to design. With a bicycle you get.. not much.

Anyway, for people suggesting I get my front wheel fixed, it's not too bad. I just got my back wheel fixed a few weeks ago because it was so bent I couldn't ride the bike. I'm not worried about the front.

You missed our point. Higher end bikes aren't as simple as you think. Yeah, they aren't as complicated as cars. But they certainly don't cost as much as a new one either. If you're fine riding a bike that has a bent front wheel, then it'll probably be harder for you to see. The higher end bikes are for people who race/push themselves really hard and having a bike tuned for maximum efficiency, which is key in helping them with their goals.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Why is that idiot still arguing? lol. This thread is hilarious.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Scouzer
I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much?

A lot of engineering time goes into making a bike, especially at the high end of the spectrum. I'd never spend that kind of money, as I'm not into it. For the people that are, all the small differences that get engineered in, make a more enjoyable ride, or a won race for the competitors.

 

[Scouzer]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: Scouzer
I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much?

A lot of engineering time goes into making a bike, especially at the high end of the spectrum. I'd never spend that kind of money, as I'm not into it. For the people that are, all the small differences that get engineered in, make a more enjoyable ride, or a won race for the competitors.

Oh sure, competition bikes make sense. If that's your passion and you race, then by all means you do need the best!

But 95% of people who buy even $1500+ bikes don't do any real competitive racing. They just wanted a bike, and decided to go expensive.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Scouzer

Oh sure, competition bikes make sense. If that's your passion and you race, then by all means you do need the best!

But 95% of people who buy even $1500+ bikes don't do any real competitive racing. They just wanted a bike, and decided to go expensive.

I can agree with that. I think a lot of people that buy high end bikes aren't qualified to know the difference. In addition to that, many buy them for exercise, and the better bikes reduce work :^D If you want exercise, the $150 WalMart special is as good as it gets.

Serious amateurs can appreciate a well engineered bike, but many buy into them without knowing why.

 

[Circlenaut]

I spent $700 on a Fuji Absolute 2 Back in HS. I still use it everyday to this day.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: Scouzer

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: Scouzer
I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much?

A lot of engineering time goes into making a bike, especially at the high end of the spectrum. I'd never spend that kind of money, as I'm not into it. For the people that are, all the small differences that get engineered in, make a more enjoyable ride, or a won race for the competitors.

Oh sure, competition bikes make sense. If that's your passion and you race, then by all means you do need the best!

But 95% of people who buy even $1500+ bikes don't do any real competitive racing. They just wanted a bike, and decided to go expensive.

You mean the same as most people with expensive anything?
how many people you think tax/use their computer 100% to its ability? Or that $2000 receiver/amp they bought?

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: Scouzer
I think people missed most of what I was trying to say in my OP. I'm not so much saying I don't get $3000 bicycles as a hobby (although I don't!), more that how does a simple bicycle cost that much?

A lot of engineering time goes into making a bike, especially at the high end of the spectrum. I'd never spend that kind of money, as I'm not into it. For the people that are, all the small differences that get engineered in, make a more enjoyable ride, or a won race for the competitors.

Not only that, but its not like they make 50,000 of the $3000 bikes. A lot of those parts are very low #s in production, thus raising their costs.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: Scouzer

Oh sure, competition bikes make sense. If that's your passion and you race, then by all means you do need the best!

But 95% of people who buy even $1500+ bikes don't do any real competitive racing. They just wanted a bike, and decided to go expensive.

I can agree with that. I think a lot of people that buy high end bikes aren't qualified to know the difference. In addition to that, many buy them for exercise, and the better bikes reduce work :^D If you want exercise, the $150 WalMart special is as good as it gets.

Serious amateurs can appreciate a well engineered bike, but many buy into them without knowing why.

I would never buy a Wal-Mart bike. I'd be scared to ride the crap.

What I would like is a road geometry bicycle made out of solid steel. That would be a hills workout.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I think the super high end bikes are over priced the same way I think golf clubs and sports cars are. But at the end of the day, it's their money and that's what they chose to do with it. Though many people get the mentality that they must spend the money to keep up with the joneses or that they can't spend only $1000 on a bicycle because it's garbage. Just like there are people that won't consider anything below a BMW or Lexus.

Personally, I wouldn't be any happier with a $10,000 bike than I am with my $200 Costco Schwinn. My money is going towards something a bit more stationary.

 

[lxskllr]

My favorite bike is still the BMX style. I don't ride one because I'd look silly, but I find them much more comfortable, and easy to get around on. My old Schwinn Scrambler was built like a tank. It's still in my mother's basement, and I could get it going again for just a little bit of money.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I think the super high end bikes are over priced the same way I think golf clubs and sports cars are. But at the end of the day, it's their money and that's what they chose to do with it. Though many people get the mentality that they must spend the money to keep up with the joneses or that they can't spend only $1000 on a bicycle because it's garbage. Just like there are people that won't consider anything below a BMW or Lexus.

Personally, I wouldn't be any happier with a $10,000 bike than I am with my $200 Costco Schwinn. My money is going towards something a bit more stationary.

You didn't see my Costco Schwinn post, did you?

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...v179/Safeway/rotor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...79/Safeway/caliper.jpg

Makes me wonder how well the rest of the bike was assembled. :S

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Safeway

You didn't see my Costco Schwinn post, did you?

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...v179/Safeway/rotor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...79/Safeway/caliper.jpg

Makes me wonder how well the rest of the bike was assembled. :S

They have flunkies put them together. I'd never trust a store assembled bike. Best case scenario they require serious adjustment, worst case, they're missing parts, or are unsafely assembled.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Safeway

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I think the super high end bikes are over priced the same way I think golf clubs and sports cars are. But at the end of the day, it's their money and that's what they chose to do with it. Though many people get the mentality that they must spend the money to keep up with the joneses or that they can't spend only $1000 on a bicycle because it's garbage. Just like there are people that won't consider anything below a BMW or Lexus.

Personally, I wouldn't be any happier with a $10,000 bike than I am with my $200 Costco Schwinn. My money is going towards something a bit more stationary.

You didn't see my Costco Schwinn post, did you?

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...v179/Safeway/rotor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...79/Safeway/caliper.jpg

Makes me wonder how well the rest of the bike was assembled. :S

I checked the bike over and tweaked things before riding

My point was "it's worth it to someone who has the cash to blow".

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: lxskllr

Originally posted by: Safeway

You didn't see my Costco Schwinn post, did you?

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...v179/Safeway/rotor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/alb...79/Safeway/caliper.jpg

Makes me wonder how well the rest of the bike was assembled. :S

They have flunkies put them together. I'd never trust a store assembled bike. Best case scenario they require serious adjustment, worst case, they're missing parts, or are unsafely assembled.

So, brake pads aren't actually contacting with anything? wtf?