Nike Free 3.0

[PricklyPete]

Just a short review...

I tried "minimalist" running last summer using some Vibram FiveFingers. I ended up with top-of-foot-pain after about 6 weeks or so. It is likely that I tried to do to much too soon as I was running 6+ miles on them pretty quickly (I "blogged" this on this forum). After a month off, I started running again in my old shoes (which already had a marathon and associated training on them). I continued to run on those shoes until a about 2 weeks ago putting on an additional 900+ miles on them (probably something like 1300 in total). Essentially they had been worn down to almost nothing and didn't have much longer before a crucial seam would burst. I would have thought myself crazy for having done this years ago, but the shoes themselves were very flexible and if I had learned anything from the "minimalist" running I did, it was that keeping a consistent form was very important. With all of that running, I had zero injuries even with a couple fast-for-me marathons (~3:10).

So with this backstory in mind, I decided that a relatively minimalist shoe would be best for me, but I wanted a little more protection than the Vibram FF's that I already owned. After trying on several pairs and running a bit in them, the Nike Free 3.0 seemed to work with my feet the best. I've been running on them for 2 weeks now and I didn't skip a beat with my normal running schedule (6-8 miles 3-4 days a week with a 10+ mile run on the weekends). I'm really enjoying them so far. Light and very flexible, but enough protection to make you feel confident. I am most interested in whether i will stay injury free as that is most important to me. If so, I may have found my perfect balance between shod and barefoot running.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I like Saucony Kinvara's personally. Similar concept, and so far (on shorter runs of 6 miles or so) they are great. I do notice that my feet are more sore from runs in them compared to thicker soled shoes.

 

[darkxshade]

I like Saucony Kinvara's personally. Similar concept, and so far (on shorter runs of 6 miles or so) they are great. I do notice that my feet are more sore from runs in them compared to thicker soled shoes.

I love the Kinvaras... I bought another pair recently when they were on sale for $60 @ footlocker + 30% coupon... Came out to about $40 a pair. They are so light and cushiony. :thumbsup:

 

[PricklyPete]

I like Saucony Kinvara's personally. Similar concept, and so far (on shorter runs of 6 miles or so) they are great. I do notice that my feet are more sore from runs in them compared to thicker soled shoes.

They didn't have these in stock for my foot size, so I didn't get a chance to try them. In the past I have not had luck with Saucony and my feet...but I would certainly give them another look. I'll have to actively seek them out next time around.

 

[silverpig]

I was thinking of getting some free 3.0s as well, but am leaning a different way now.

I've had a pair of VFFs for a few years now and I generally like them. I love the groundfeel and lightness, but they don't fit perfectly to me. The length is fine, I'm mainly talking about how the top doesn't seem tight enough, the bottoms flex away from my foot sometimes, and my toes don't all fit in the slots perfectly.

So several months ago I got some free run+ 5.0s (all they had at the local nike store). They're nice for walking in, but I can't midfoot strike in them comfortably. There's just waaay too much padding in the heel.

Right now I alternate between VFFs and some diesel casual runners I have (yes, diesel). They're light, they fit great, and the soles are just a thin strip of foam with a bit of rubber on the bottom. They're not perfect, but they do well.

I was considering the free 3.0s this morning, but came across the vivobarefoot evo IIs and came here to see if anyone has tried them when I saw this thread. They generally get great reviews but I'm worried about buying something online like this without being able to pick it up and feel it first.

 

[kamper]

I was considering the free 3.0s this morning, but came across the vivobarefoot evo IIs and came here to see if anyone has tried them when I saw this thread. They generally get great reviews but I'm worried about buying something online like this without being able to pick it up and feel it first.

I have a pair. I basically got them for winter running when my KSOs just couldn't keep the snow/slush out. They're thin, but not nearly as much so as KSOs. The uppers are also less flexy so they don't hug your foot the way a vff does.

They are zero drop, have wide forefeet and are pretty comfy in general.

I've had two issues with them. One is that I had to order them online, and if you're in Vancouver, I'm assuming you will too. I think I may have gotten them a bit too large, but without being able to try on a size smaller, it's hard to tell. The second problem is that I ended up with some ToFP from running in them. I'm not sure if it's the shoes' fault or if I was doing something wrong. But my feet seem to not like minimalism all that much while it looks like you are fully adjusted so I doubt you'd have any issues.

 

[silverpig]

I have a pair. I basically got them for winter running when my KSOs just couldn't keep the snow/slush out. They're thin, but not nearly as much so as KSOs. The uppers are also less flexy so they don't hug your foot the way a vff does.

They are zero drop, have wide forefeet and are pretty comfy in general.

I've had two issues with them. One is that I had to order them online, and if you're in Vancouver, I'm assuming you will too. I think I may have gotten them a bit too large, but without being able to try on a size smaller, it's hard to tell. The second problem is that I ended up with some ToFP from running in them. I'm not sure if it's the shoes' fault or if I was doing something wrong. But my feet seem to not like minimalism all that much while it looks like you are fully adjusted so I doubt you'd have any issues.

Yeah I am in Vancouver and have to order online. I just hope I get the right size right off the bat. I just don't know if I'm willing to pull the trigger on $160 shoes without trying them on first.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I run with VFFs for shorter runs but will run in Nike Free Run + for longer distances. I believe that the additional cushioning reduces the impact and any injuries that may occur compared to VFFs.

 

[kalrith]

I thought about getting VFFs for a long time, but now I'm really considering the Merrell Trail Glove. They've gotten excellent reviews so far.

I recently read a very interesting recommendation when researching minimalist running shoes: start running barefoot and add MR shoes later. The premise is that running barefoot will force you to not overdo it and to run with proper form, whereas MR shoes might allow you to do a bit of both. Starting barefoot would also allow me to see if I like it without spending any money on it.

Pete, I'm wondering if starting totally barefoot instead of with VFFs would've decreased your likelihood for injury.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this concept?

 

[Capt Caveman]

I thought about getting VFFs for a long time, but now I'm really considering the Merrell Trail Glove. They've gotten excellent reviews so far.

I recently read a very interesting recommendation when researching minimalist running shoes: start running barefoot and add MR shoes later. The premise is that running barefoot will force you to not overdo it and to run with proper form, whereas MR shoes might allow you to do a bit of both. Starting barefoot would also allow me to see if I like it without spending any money on it.

Pete, I'm wondering if starting totally barefoot instead of with VFFs would've decreased your likelihood for injury.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this concept?

Another option is the New Balance Minimus Trail

Unless you're running completely barefoot on grass, it's not fun on pavement/trail and thats where VFFs come in...

 

[silverpig]

I thought about getting VFFs for a long time, but now I'm really considering the Merrell Trail Glove. They've gotten excellent reviews so far.

I recently read a very interesting recommendation when researching minimalist running shoes: start running barefoot and add MR shoes later. The premise is that running barefoot will force you to not overdo it and to run with proper form, whereas MR shoes might allow you to do a bit of both. Starting barefoot would also allow me to see if I like it without spending any money on it.

Pete, I'm wondering if starting totally barefoot instead of with VFFs would've decreased your likelihood for injury.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this concept?

I'd have loved to have done that but it hurt even walking on the sidewalks barefoot for me (bottoms of my feet are pansy ass bitches I guess), and the gym won't let me do barefoot, and the tracks around here require shoes too.

When I started in VFFs, I could do 10km in shoes no problem. I did a little over 1km on the treadmill in the VFFs and my calves were so sore I had trouble walking for 3 days. I never had a chance to start barefoot, but slowly got up to where I could do a half marathon on the road in the VFFs no problem.

 

[kamper]

Yeah I am in Vancouver and have to order online. I just hope I get the right size right off the bat. I just don't know if I'm willing to pull the trigger on $160 shoes without trying them on first.

They seem to have coupon codes out fairly frequently. I think I got 30% off my pair or something like that. You can usually find the current codes at http://www.retailmenot.com/view/terraplana.com

What size do you wear in vffs? A 43 KSO fits me quite snugly. At 44, I wouldn't risk going down a size in my evos without trying them on in store. With insoles in they are just good, with them out they're a tad large. Hope that helps for comparison.

 

[PricklyPete]

Pete, I'm wondering if starting totally barefoot instead of with VFFs would've decreased your likelihood for injury.

Does anyone else have thoughts on this concept?

I definitely don't blame the VFF's for my injuries, but myself. I definitely overdid it. I just have a hard time (like many) scaling back my running to accomodate barefoot/VFF running. I will certainly say that my form improved while running in VFF's.

The Free 3.0's are still proving to be an excellent compromise for me (combined with my improved form from last years VFF attempt). I ran another 10 miler yesterday and 7 miles this morning with no issues.

 

[kalrith]

I definitely don't blame the VFF's for my injuries, but myself. I definitely overdid it. I just have a hard time (like many) scaling back my running to accomodate barefoot/VFF running. I will certainly say that my form improved while running in VFF's.

The Free 3.0's are still proving to be an excellent compromise for me (combined with my improved form from last years VFF attempt). I ran another 10 miler yesterday and 7 miles this morning with no issues.

The bolded statement was kind of my point. Also, silverpig saying he did 10km in VFFs right off the bat seems to contribute as well.

All the research points to easing into barefoot/minimalist running much more than these two examples. I'm not saying that VFFs are to blame. However, if you guys had run barefoot right off the bat, I seriously doubt you would've run 10k the first time out or run several miles a week right off the bat. It would've been a much slower process, and your feet would've told you that you MUST back off. Whereas in VFFs you might be able to run through some of the pain (or maybe not feel the pain until the next day or even several weeks into it when you have an injury), I doubt that's the case with completely barefoot running.

I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything like that. If anything, I was taken aback by the recommendation to start barefoot and add MR shoes later and was wondering how the barefoot/MR community of AT felt about that.

Anyways, Pete, I'm glad you found some shoes that work for you. Hopefully these provide a good balance between minimalist running and injury prevention. I still haven't decided which way I want to go. I've tried the cheap method (running in water shoes), but they don't fare too well going down hills, and there are hills all around my house where I usually run. I have a hard time using proper form in my regular running shoes without the heel getting in the way. I might try straight up barefoot running, but bare feet and asphalt don't sound like a good combination. Maybe I'll pick up a pair of Merrel Trail Gloves and just try my best to ease into it.

BTW, I looked at the New Balance Minimus Trail, and decided against them since they're not zero drop like the Trail Gloves. I think the padding is about twice as thick as the Trail Gloves and is less flexible as well. The Trail Gloves sound like a one-finger KSO, with the sole being very similar to the KSO.

 

[PricklyPete]

The bolded statement was kind of my point. Also, silverpig saying he did 10km in VFFs right off the bat seems to contribute as well.

All the research points to easing into barefoot/minimalist running much more than these two examples. I'm not saying that VFFs are to blame. However, if you guys had run barefoot right off the bat, I seriously doubt you would've run 10k the first time out or run several miles a week right off the bat. It would've been a much slower process, and your feet would've told you that you MUST back off. Whereas in VFFs you might be able to run through some of the pain (or maybe not feel the pain until the next day or even several weeks into it when you have an injury), I doubt that's the case with completely barefoot running.

I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything like that. If anything, I was taken aback by the recommendation to start barefoot and add MR shoes later and was wondering how the barefoot/MR community of AT felt about that.

Sorry if it came off like I was disagreeing with you. You are likely right that if I had gone 100% barefoot, I probably would have been more timid. That being said, I also think I would have given up on it quickly as I have a hard time cutting my running that much. So it more comes down to a self discipline issue with myself where I have a hard time easing into things.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sorry if it came off like I was disagreeing with you. You are likely right that if I had gone 100% barefoot, I probably would have been more timid. That being said, I also think I would have given up on it quickly as I have a hard time cutting my running that much. So it more comes down to a self discipline issue with myself where I have a hard time easing into things.

My suggestion which I believe has made my transition to minimal running easy has been transitioning to lighter/more flexible running footwear and changing to a fore-mid foot strike. I had been running on my mid foot for years, slowly moving to lighter/less cushioned footwear.

Switching to Nike Free Run + became a zero issue where many have suggested a gradual change. The only issue switching to the VFFs has been the harder impact but no issue with mechanics/stride/etc.

 

[kalrith]

I'll have to check out the Nike Free sometime. Pete, is this the pair of Nike Free that you bought: http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/?l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-1/pid-382318/pgid-246670. Those look like the most minimal of the Nike Frees.

My main concern with MR/BR is consistency. When the weather's nice, I'm good about putting on some miles every week. However, I don't do too much when it's cold out, and I'm concerned that taking a few months off every winter would require me to ease into MR every spring. The Nike Free might be a good solution for that.

 

[kamper]

My suggestion which I believe has made my transition to minimal running easy has been transitioning to lighter/more flexible running footwear and changing to a fore-mid foot strike. I had been running on my mid foot for years, slowly moving to lighter/less cushioned footwear.

Switching to Nike Free Run + became a zero issue where many have suggested a gradual change. The only issue switching to the VFFs has been the harder impact but no issue with mechanics/stride/etc.

Are you suggesting that Free Runs are minimal shoes? I have a pair of Free Run 2s and they have about as much eva as a regular trainer and almost as big a drop. The only real noticeable difference between them and a regular trainer, as far as I can tell, is that they're a fair bit flexier. I have a hard time not heel striking in them.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Are you suggesting that Free Runs are minimal shoes? I have a pair of Free Run 2s and they have about as much eva as a regular trainer and almost as big a drop. The only real noticeable difference between them and a regular trainer, as far as I can tell, is that they're a fair bit flexier. I have a hard time not heel striking in them.

I'm suggesting that people are using minimalist running shoes/barefoot running as a means to improving their running form and foot strike. From my experience, I was able to do this without minimal running shoes using regular trainers. This allowed me to transition to minimal shoes without the issues as many people have developed.

Weight wise and due to their flexibility/lack of support, yes I consider the Free Runs a minimalist shoe. The Free 3.0's are more minimal(lighter with a slimmer sole). People consider the Free 5.0 and 7.0 minimalist shoes and they are more beefed up than the Runs.

fwiw - Screwing around I've heel striked with my VFFs for parts of my runs

 

[kalrith]

Are the Free 3.0's the most minimal of their lineup: http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/?l=sh...18/pgid-246670?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Are the Free 3.0's the most minimal of their lineup: http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/?l=sh...18/pgid-246670?

Most minimal for the Free Series.

Interestingly, most people seem to ignore racing shoes for minimalist shoes. I used to do quite a bit of running in Nike Waffle Racers when I was in HS before marketing made me come to the conclusion I should be running in trainers.

 

[silverpig]

They seem to have coupon codes out fairly frequently. I think I got 30% off my pair or something like that. You can usually find the current codes at http://www.retailmenot.com/view/terraplana.com

What size do you wear in vffs? A 43 KSO fits me quite snugly. At 44, I wouldn't risk going down a size in my evos without trying them on in store. With insoles in they are just good, with them out they're a tad large. Hope that helps for comparison.

Thanks for that. I saw they had coupon codes on review sites and was hoping to get one somewhere. This is great.

I'm a 44 in KSOs. They're a tiny bit big. Most of the time I wear a size 11, with my runners and some other shoes being a snug (yet very comfortable) 10.5. Do you think I should be in a 43 or 44 for the EVOs?

 

[silverpig]

The bolded statement was kind of my point. Also, silverpig saying he did 10km in VFFs right off the bat seems to contribute as well.

All the research points to easing into barefoot/minimalist running much more than these two examples. I'm not saying that VFFs are to blame. However, if you guys had run barefoot right off the bat, I seriously doubt you would've run 10k the first time out or run several miles a week right off the bat. It would've been a much slower process, and your feet would've told you that you MUST back off. Whereas in VFFs you might be able to run through some of the pain (or maybe not feel the pain until the next day or even several weeks into it when you have an injury), I doubt that's the case with completely barefoot running.

I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or anything like that. If anything, I was taken aback by the recommendation to start barefoot and add MR shoes later and was wondering how the barefoot/MR community of AT felt about that.

Anyways, Pete, I'm glad you found some shoes that work for you. Hopefully these provide a good balance between minimalist running and injury prevention. I still haven't decided which way I want to go. I've tried the cheap method (running in water shoes), but they don't fare too well going down hills, and there are hills all around my house where I usually run. I have a hard time using proper form in my regular running shoes without the heel getting in the way. I might try straight up barefoot running, but bare feet and asphalt don't sound like a good combination. Maybe I'll pick up a pair of Merrel Trail Gloves and just try my best to ease into it.

BTW, I looked at the New Balance Minimus Trail, and decided against them since they're not zero drop like the Trail Gloves. I think the padding is about twice as thick as the Trail Gloves and is less flexible as well. The Trail Gloves sound like a one-finger KSO, with the sole being very similar to the KSO.

Oh no no. I wasn't able to do 10km in VFFs off the bat. I was doing 10km in normal runners no problem when I made the switch to VFFs (for context).

My first VFF run was about 1.5 km on the treadmill and my calves were burning for 3 days. My second VFF run was about 2 km, also on the treadmill, about 5 days after my first one. I was very sore for the next day, but then it loosened up. After that I went up to 3 km, then several runs at 5 km, then back down to 3 km but outside. It took me a good month to get up to 10 km on the roads in them.

 

[silverpig]

Are you suggesting that Free Runs are minimal shoes? I have a pair of Free Run 2s and they have about as much eva as a regular trainer and almost as big a drop. The only real noticeable difference between them and a regular trainer, as far as I can tell, is that they're a fair bit flexier. I have a hard time not heel striking in them.

I struggle to not heel strike in my free runs. When I run in VFFs, my heel is off the ground, but only by a few mm. The drop in the free runs is more than that, so I heel strike when my mechanics are still the same. In order to ensure the shoe hits midfoot, I have to change my mechanics to where it would be the equivalent of toe striking in VFFs.

 

[kamper]

Thanks for that. I saw they had coupon codes on review sites and was hoping to get one somewhere. This is great.

I'm a 44 in KSOs. They're a tiny bit big. Most of the time I wear a size 11, with my runners and some other shoes being a snug (yet very comfortable) 10.5. Do you think I should be in a 43 or 44 for the EVOs?

My guess would be you probably want a 44. If your feet are slightly larger than mine, going down a whole size seems a bit too risky. But I wish they had a 43.5