Nintendo DX GPU?

[Mondozei]

So Nintendo NX is coming out next year and I wonder which GPU you think the console has? Some more info on the NX.

An admin on a large nintendo forum has been in touch with software devs who got their SDK kits and the feedback they got in return was:

Specifically, one software demo included with the kit crunches so many polygons that it's currently impossible to run at 60fps using a current-generation Intel (we're assuming a Core i7 Skylake) CPU and a nearly top-of-the-line graphics card (no specifics provided, but they probably used a single graphics card).

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

I bet it's going to be something weaker than PS4, hell maybe even X1 ...

 

[Silverforce11]

Zen APU debuts 2016 in NX? One can only dream but Nintendo isn't the type to put beefy hardware into their consoles. Would be a complete reversal of their console approach.

 

[Red Hawk]

I'm betting something AMD based, if only because AMD seems to have cornered the market on semicustom console chips.

 

[happy medium]

I'm betting something custom on the cpu side faster than both the ps4 and xbox 1.
And a power vr graphics that are better than the ps4.

 

[Silverforce11]

I'm betting something custom on the cpu side faster than both the ps4 and xbox 1.
And a power vr graphics that are better than the ps4.

Lisa Su at the conference call already said they've won the next major console SOC design for 2016.

"AMD powering all the major consoles".

 

[NTMBK]

I bet it's going to be something weaker than PS4, hell maybe even X1 ...

You're such a buzzkill.

My guess is that

a) The new handheld and home console have the same basic architecture, but with the handheld having slower CPU cores, fewer GPU shaders and less memory bandwidth. (Nintendo have been porting more and more of their games between 3DS and Wii U, despite the completely different architectures- having a common basis and toolset will make this much easier.)

b) AMD have got the contract, judging by what they have said

c) ARM cores- something like an A53 or the 64-bit A17 successor in the handheld, and A72 in the home console

d) Some sort of on-chip ESRAM/EDRAM scratchpad for the GPU, instead of a super expensive memory bus- more like the XBox One than the PS4. (Nintendo have used systems like this since the Gamecube days.)

 

[BigDaveX]

Zen APU debuts 2016 in NX? One can only dream but Nintendo isn't the type to put beefy hardware into their consoles. Would be a complete reversal of their console approach.

Going with noticeably weaker hardware has only been their approach for the last two consoles, and it sort of made sense with the Wii since if they'd poured the huge sums into the Wii that Sony did into the PS3, and it flopped (bearing in mind that they didn't know the DS was going to be such a huge hit back then), it'd probably have killed the company.

Their real mistake with the Wii U was more poor component choice than anything else, as the CPU design they went with was complete sh*t. They'd probably have been better-served just grabbing an off-the-shelf Trinity APU, slapping it in there and calling it a day.

 

[Techhog]

If you believe that quote, I feel sorry for you. The absolute best case is that it's between PS4 and XBO, but since we're talking about Nintendo even an overclocked Wii U or even something weaker than Wii U is possible. Speculating is, frankly, pointless.

 

[railven]

Lisa Su at the conference call already said they've won the next major console SOC design for 2016.

"AMD powering all the major consoles".

That doesn't confirm much.

Current major consoles:
Wii U - AMD (ATI)
PS4 - AMD
XBone - AMD

However, if AMD is in the next console, I expect an ARM processor too. Nintendo has been vocal about integrating their mobile and console business.

 

[therealnickdanger]

Specifically, one software demo included with the kit crunches so many polygons that it's currently impossible to run at 60fps using a current-generation Intel (we're assuming a Core i7 Skylake) CPU and a nearly top-of-the-line graphics card (no specifics provided, but they probably used a single graphics card).

With an emulator? Yeah, I'll believe that.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I bet it's going to be something weaker than PS4, hell maybe even X1 ...

I thought three days ago they said it would be "Industry Leading Chips"?

 

[ShintaiDK]

I thought three days ago they said it would be "Industry Leading Chips"?

Even if they did, it can mean anything.

 

[CakeMonster]

Wouldn't it be quite cheap for them to go with something at least equal to XB1/PS4 at this point? If they do that I'd have gone slightly above it just because. It would make it really easy to get all sorts of games ported (not that they'd even need any kind of "porting" with equal or better hardware).

 

[Techhog]

Wouldn't it be quite cheap for them to go with something at least equal to XB1/PS4 at this point? If they do that I'd have gone slightly above it just because. It would make it really easy to get all sorts of games ported (not that they'd even need any kind of "porting" with equal or better hardware).

If they released a console with a Titan X and a 5960X in it, they still wouldn't get any ports. Third parties don't support Nintendo now, and they never will again. The games just don't sell.

Frankly, it makes more sense for them to release a handheld and a $50 micro-console. Any actual console they release is a guaranteed failure unless Apple buys them or something.

So that some people here will will understand, feel free to think of Nintendo as the AMD of the console market (other than the fact that they're profitable again now).

 

[AtenRa]

20nm FDSOI with 4GB HBM 1.0 and faster/equal vs PS4 performance.
It would be smaller than the PS4 chip and cheaper (smaller size, lower power, smaller heat-sink, smaller console size, less complex PCB and platform, no GDDR5 etc etc)

Anyone betting on 14/16nm FF ??

 

[jpiniero]

20nm FDSOI with 4GB HBM 1.0 and faster/equal vs PS4 performance.
It would be smaller than the PS4 chip and cheaper (smaller size, lower power, smaller heat-sink, smaller console size, less complex PCB and platform, no GDDR5 etc etc)

Anyone betting on 14/16nm FF ??

I'd have to say 28 tbh. Maybe 4xA72 plus 640 GCN cores?

 

[poofyhairguy]

So that some people here will will understand, feel free to think of Nintendo as the AMD of the console market (other than the fact that they're profitable again now).

Nintendo has a brand value AMD could never hope to have. Mario is probably as recognizable as Mickey Mouse, even to young children born decades after his biggest games.

Nintendo just doesn't want to take a huge financial risk on subsidizing hardware, but honestly the whole industry has moved away from that.

 

[railven]

Nintendo has a brand value AMD could never hope to have. Mario is probably as recognizable as Mickey Mouse, even to young children born decades after his biggest games.

Nintendo just doesn't want to take a huge financial risk on subsidizing hardware, but honestly the whole industry has moved away from that.

As a tech nerd, I know Ruby. Oddly today for the first time I saw this chick, who I'll just name Sapphire as a pun:

When Did Intel create their own "characters?" haha.

 

[Snafuh]

If they released a console with a Titan X and a 5960X in it, they still wouldn't get any ports. Third parties don't support Nintendo now, and they never will again. The games just don't sell.

Frankly, it makes more sense for them to release a handheld and a $50 micro-console. Any actual console they release is a guaranteed failure unless Apple buys them or something.

There were plenty third party games on the Wii and third party support for the 3ds is very good.
Third party doesn't mean cross platform. Nintendo doesn't need ports of assassin's creed, battlefield or call of duty.
The Wii was the best selling console of last generation and the (3)ds is the only really successful handheld on the market.
But yeah, any console they release is a failure.

 

[Techhog]

There were plenty third party games on the Wii and third party support for the 3ds is very good.
Third party doesn't mean cross platform. Nintendo doesn't need ports of assassin's creed, battlefield or call of duty.
The Wii was the best selling console of last generation and the (3)ds is the only really successful handheld on the market.
But yeah, any console they release is a failure.

Wii caught lightning in a bottle.The audience that Wii captured is gone for good, so they would need those ports to have enough value for a full-priced console. That's not going to happen, so they should target $150 or (preferably) less for both the console and the handheld. As much as i hate the idea, a console as weak or weaker than Wii U makes the most sense business-wise unless they heavily invest in attracting third parties.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

So Nintendo NX is coming out next year and I wonder which GPU you think the console has?

Specifically, one software demo included with the kit crunches so many polygons that it's currently impossible to run at 60fps using a current-generation Intel (we're assuming a Core i7 Skylake) CPU and a nearly top-of-the-line graphics card (no specifics provided, but they probably used a single graphics card).

Pay close attention to the wording. Crunching many polygons isn't the same as generally very fast GPU these days, it means that you can set up a lot of polygons. This is typically not limited by shader power, but by something else. A special-purpose APU might be able to have very efficient triangle setup and absolutely humble a fast CPU+GPU combo at the task, while having modest shading resources, and being less powerful in typical modern GPU tasks.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Or may be it is not that Nvidia is way behind on OpenCL but rather is not using OpenCL to its full potential and wants is proprietary CUDA to flourish?
Let's not forget what happened to AMD cards in Blender OpenCL path.For years they were lagging behind(wasn't even workable then),still are.While CUDA path was faster but the other important thing was while Blender OpenCL path worked on Nvidia and Intel cards it wasn't with AMD for years.
With Vray-RT as well AMD opencl didn't work while others' cards were working.
Nvidia is likely not willing to support OpenCL as hard as it supports CUDA.
Check ppbm7.com for results as well for premiere pro results,there too Nvidia came out on top.
When it comes to open source support and especially OpenCL,Intel is probably as good or better than AMD.Of course AMD's integrated graphics shaders are more powerful and the applications they work well,they are a lot faster than Intel's in many such situations.They have formed new team and may get things going very well in future but we haven't seen much yet.
AMD's card do shine in Musemage,Vegas Pro and some others but overall they need to sort out more.


As far as AMD getting inside Macbook,if such thing can happen it would be great source of revenue for AMD but let's see if it would happen actually in 2017(?)

AMD's priority for APUs seems lower than their Zen CPUs for Server and Desktops,it's likely that there won't be any Zen based APUs for laptop before 2017 H2,by that time Cannonlake would be around the corner may be.
Even going by "40%" improvement over excavator,it would still be considerably behind Intel on CPU side at least. Intel would be on better node and better perf/watt likely.Important thing that many don't consider is Intel's biggest gains are noticeable only in laptop processors.They have steadily increased clocks wrt to power segments. That's the reason why even though Broadwell is hardly 2-3% improvement per clock over Haswell in CPU side the broadwell SKUs for laptop were easily 15-20% better than previous mainstream laptop chips because of higher clocks and better sustained turbos.
With EDram SKUs and even without ones Intel probably would be able to cater to Mac line up likely better especially when battery life is such a priority at Apple and also the as slim as possible form-factor which all will favour intel's better thermals and performance/watt.

But if AMD is able to pull out some magic it would be great because even 1 or 2 design wins with Macbook line up alone can significantly alter the AMD balance sheet.

Uhhh, Blender is now usable on AMD GPUs and Intel GPUs most certainly does not work with Blender or many other ray tracers out there ...

The only reason why AMD got so much flak in the not realtime rendering community was because developers kept grumbling at AMD's OpenCL compiler for been notoriously bad at big kernels but that stopped sometime ago ...

Both Intel hardware and compilers for OpenCL sucks no matter where in the rendering community ...

 

[sxr7171]

If they released a console with a Titan X and a 5960X in it, they still wouldn't get any ports. Third parties don't support Nintendo now, and they never will again. The games just don't sell.

Frankly, it makes more sense for them to release a handheld and a $50 micro-console. Any actual console they release is a guaranteed failure unless Apple buys them or something.

So that some people here will will understand, feel free to think of Nintendo as the AMD of the console market (other than the fact that they're profitable again now).

They've burned so many 3rd parties that it's over for them. Their first party work of late has been almost non existent. Just a bunch of fluff like mario maker.

 

[ShintaiDK]

c) ARM cores- something like an A53 or the 64-bit A17 successor in the handheld, and A72 in the home console

That's a good guess. The Wii U gamepad uses an ARM CPU as well.