Nintendo Switch is powered by NVIDIA

[Snarf Snarf]

Nope, sorry. It's three times slower than an Xbox One. The memory bandwidth is extremely weak compared to the standard desktop consoles. Most titles will render 504p which is the minimum requirement from Nintendo.

So this is not a Tegra X2 like everyone is hoping? Or is it some sort of custom chip that uses Pascal arch with mobile level TDP?

 

[ZipSpeed]

I know I'm being cynical, but I hope this thing is even less successful than the Wii U. That way they can finally be a software-only company that we all want them to be.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

This thing is going to be the nail in the coffin for Nintendo...it's too gimmiky...many people have already lost faith in Nintendo after the Wii and then the Wii U..they needed a solid Xbox One/PS4 competitor and this simply won't be it.

I seriously doubt they could ever do that. They are just not as connected enough.

Honestly, this seems like a good package for me. I am not a gamer. I just play Civ4 (switching next year to VI).
A simple console with Nintendo IP is just the thing I would want. Now I'm not target market, but still. Looks good. Looks like something I'd buy to my kids if I had some, and play myself.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Guess our idea of gimmiky is different...

Having the possibility to take the console with you.. I don't think that qualified as a gimmick. It does sound like something useful.

 

[antihelten]

Nope, sorry. It's three times slower than an Xbox One. The memory bandwidth is extremely weak compared to the standard desktop consoles. Most titles will render 504p which is the minimum requirement from Nintendo.

Three times slower than Xbox One sounds Tegra X1'ish, not X2'ish (although I suppose a downclocked X2 is also possible). Or maybe I'm overestimating the memory bandwidth of the X2 (Parker) relative to Xbox One.

Nope. It has a processing unit, but only for upscaling. Otherwise 504p would be really ugly on a 4K tv.

It doesn't clock higher in the dock either?

I understand if you can't say too much at this stage, NDA and all that, just fishing a bit here.

 

[crisium]

Yeah, higher clocks in the dock makes the most sense financially (buy a replacement dock with a GPU?) as well as for programming purposes (no 'SLI').

PS4 Pro already is setting the standard for 2 modes for games, regular vs pro, so Switch can also do this if mobile has lower clocks and/or disabled cores.

Just curious if there was any concrete info yet, but it's only been a few hours so we shall learn more.

 

[zlatan]

And to be honest - i'd prefer that they shoot for Xbox One / PS4 level effects and per-pixel quality and reduce resolution rather than reduce effects and engine design.

That's impossible with a mobile product. You may achive 1.3 TFLOPS with a mobile GPU in a mobile SoC, but you can't implement the same kind of data share, bitwise and program control features what GCN have. Some very important algorithm is just one instruction on GCN, and this is super good for a console, where we can directly access the ISA. TFLOPS is a very misleading comparison for the consoles.

 

[Sweepr]

I understand if you can't say too much at this stage, NDA and all that, just fishing a bit here.

Looks like someone is just parroting what was posted on Neogaf - leaked specs from a devkit based on what looks like Tegra X1 Jetson. We do know for a fact that NVIDIA claims it's a custom SoC using same architecture as the ''world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards''. This implies Pascal and something different from current Tegra products inside the final console.

 

[Headfoot]

Nope, sorry. It's three times slower than an Xbox One. The memory bandwidth is extremely weak compared to the standard desktop consoles. Most titles will render 504p which is the minimum requirement from Nintendo.

Ouch. 504 is really pushing it. That's only marginally better than the Wii U tablet resolution.

 

[crisium]

One of the more credible leaks said 720p.

 

[zlatan]

So this is not a Tegra X2 like everyone is hoping? Or is it some sort of custom chip that uses Pascal arch with mobile level TDP?

I don't familiar with NV planed product line. I can say that this is an SoC with a Pascal GPU. It's fast compared to other mobile products, but nowhere near as good as the Xbox One SoC. But hey, it consumes a lot less power. It is a very good product for the mobile market.

 

[antihelten]

Looks like someone is just parroting what was posted on Neogaf - leaked specs from a devkit based on what looks like Tegra X1 Jetson. We do know for a fact that NVIDIA claims it's a custom SoC using same architecture as the ''world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards''. This implies Pascal and something different from current Tegra products inside the final console.

To my knowledge Zlatan is a console developer, although that obviously doesn't guarantee that he has access to a Switch devkit. He did however post info on it earlier in the thread as well, and those comments appear to have been accurate.

Do you have a link to the Neogaf thread btw?

 

[zlatan]

Three times slower than Xbox One sounds Tegra X1'ish, not X2'ish (although I suppose a downclocked X2 is also possible). Or maybe I'm overestimating the memory bandwidth of the X2 (Parker) relative to Xbox One.

Tegra X1 is eight-ten times slower.

It doesn't clock higher in the dock either?

No. But the function is easy enough to implement it before the start. So never say never.

 

[Sweepr]

Do you have a link to the Neogaf thread btw?

Site is down, but you can find here: https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1948882

 

[zlatan]

One of the more credible leaks said 720p.

That's the screen resolution. Like on any desktop console the game may render in a lower resolution. 504p is the minimum target for Switch. And this can be upscaled to 720p, 1080p, or 4K.

 

[antihelten]

Tegra X1 is eight-ten times slower.

I'm guessing this is mainly due to bandwidth limitations (25GB/s for X1 and ~180-190GB/s for Xbox One across system memory and eSRAM), more than GFLOPS limitations (400-500 for X1 depending on clockrate and 1300 for Xbox One)

So if the SoC uses Pascal then we are likely looking at some sort of X2 derivative (customized in whatever way Nintendo required/could afford), which would have ~50GB/s.

No. But the function is easy enough to implement it before the start. So never say never.

Fingers crossed

Site is down, but you can find here: https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1948882

That doesn't match up with what Zlatan is saying though, so he's obviously not parroting things from there

 

[zlatan]

I'm guessing this is mainly based on bandwidth (25GB/s for X1 and ~180-190GB/s for Xbox One), and not GFLOPS (400-500 for X1 and 1300 for Xbox One)

Yes. The bandwidth is important, especially when most engines use a more classical form of deferred shading. Tiled Resources is another bandwidth killer feature, and the engines starting to use it. But VR and Switch might force a change, and the users will get more modern renderers. Forward+ would be very good for Switch, and for VR, and it works for PC/consoles.
I'm currently researching a forward texture space shading implementation. That would be good for all of these machines.

 

[antihelten]

Yes. The bandwidth is important, especially when most engines use a more classical form of deferred shading. Tiled Resources is another bandwidth killer feature, and the engines starting to use it. But VR and Switch might force a change, and the users will get more modern renderers. Forward+ would be very good for Switch, and for VR, and it works for PC/consoles.
I'm currently researching a forward texture space shading implementation. That would be good for all of these machines.

A bit off topic, but it's quite interesting to see the move back towards forward renderers that seems to have been given a push by VR (Oculus writing a forward renderer for UE4 being one of the more notable things).

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Tegra X1 is eight-ten times slower.

That much? Honestly it seems like it would be only about 3-4 times slower, at least considering the GPU only. What is the GPU clock speed on Tegra X1? ~1000MHz (plugged in)? That should make it about 1/3 of a 750 Ti. Wouldn't Tegra X2 be about 50% faster? That's getting close to Xbox One, considerably slower, but more than half as fast.

It has one advantage on the bandwidth side and that's Pascal's delta color compression, with that I'd guess that it would be similarly close to Xbox One in effective bandwidth. Xbox One is somewhat bandwidth starved though and DCC isn't a magic bullet, obviously.

I could be totally wrong, but the Tegra X2 seems like it should be at least half as fast as Xbox One when docked.

 

[SunnyNW]

I agree with a previous post about it being Very ODD that there were no young kids in the inital video or any type of family dynamic/setting.

This unit just seems very odd to me, for example:
On one hand I feel like the unit itself is pretty big for a kid to carry but on the other hand the removable controllers on the sides seem to be made for very young/small hands, not so much adult hands especially bigger male hands.
Also I myself wouldn't call it very portable and feel like it isn't very durable either. With the DS being a clamshell design it was more portable and pretty durable as well, to me that was a big advantage over the PSP and Vita.

I personally think the controllers (the detachable ones) are going to be a big disadvantage for this "hybrid system." They might work fine when attached but too many problems come to mind.

• Too small for many adults
• One more thing for a kid to lose (what happens if my nephew loses just the right controller? I go buy a new set?)
  
• With their size, I wouldn't be surprised if they did not offer a "rumble" feedback feature or it might be very weak.
• If you're playing multiplayer with them (with one controller per person, two people) obviously you are going to be limited to very basic input controls only, it might work ok with some games but there are very few buttons. They definitely do not compare to a full fledged game controller.
• How are they going to hold up over time for those that are repeatedly attaching and detaching?

Another thing that bothers me is the rumored price point. If the unit itself is really $299.99 I feel that's too much, especially if that is only for the basic unit itself. I feel like if you want the complete setup it will be very costly and I dont believe the "bundle" will include more than just the unit and the base station.
So for extra costs you are looking at:

• The base station, if you do not purchase the bundle (I personally do not think the base station is included with the basic package only in the bundle)
• The extra controller cradle (The piece in the video that is shown to join the two detachable controllers together into one singular controller)
• Extra "pro" controller. I feel like this is going to be essential especially if you want to do any "serious" gaming. The "controller cradle" looks very uncomfortable to me.
  
• Probably a screen protector
• I would argue you need some kind of carrying case if you dont carry a backpack.
• Maybe extra battery or two
• I wouldn't be surprised if the base station lacked a built-in ethernet port and Nintendo made you buy a usb attached network port (like with the original Wii). Yes I'm sure it will have wi-fi capability.

I need to add that the name is probably one of the worst game system names I have heard, actually I think it is a terrible name for any consumer electronic. The Switch is not very marketable in my opinion. Like I said elsewhere the Nintendo N-E-S, Super Nes, N64, Wii, WiiU, DS, 3DS, to the Switch...Really?
Like in one of the leaked shots, I think the name Duo would have been way better and been more "traditional" Nintendo. Even if they had stuck with NX, maybe for Nintendo Next or whatever, that would have been perfectly fine but Nintendo Switch is just plain bad. "Hey Mom/Dad do you know where I put my Switch? For my birthday I want a Switch game. Hey you wanna play Nintendo ugh no I mean Hey you wanna play Switch? Hey it's game-time let's Switch. Can you twitch on the Switch?"

 

[Headfoot]

I wouldn't be surprised if they sell a different dedicated mobile device a-la 3DS that is compatible with the dock in its own right, while being smaller and 100% mobile focused.

 

[CuriousMike]

I have a hard time believing third-party AAA developers are going to take this seriously.
They might initially throw a bone to the system and back-port an existing product... but serious new development with similar resource parity as XBOX/Sony/PC/Mobile resources?
I don't see it.

Because the system is different ( CPU/GPU/Libraries/power), it'll require a moderate amount of work to down-sample any AAA title to fit.
Essentially, porting Battlefield or Assassins Creed to this device will take too much time; no studio wants to spend an additional 25-50% of time in porting/scaling/culling a project to meet the needs of an outlier.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

I have a hard time believing third-party AAA developers are going to take this seriously.
They might initially throw a bone to the system and back-port an existing product... but serious new development with similar resource parity as XBOX/Sony/PC/Mobile resources?
I don't see it.

Because the system is different ( CPU/GPU/Libraries/power), it'll require a moderate amount of work to down-sample any AAA title to fit.
Essentially, porting Battlefield or Assassins Creed to this device will take too much time; no studio wants to spend an additional 25-50% of time in porting/scaling/culling a project to meet the needs of an outlier.

I was wondering this, based on what Nvidia is saying they came up with the API for the switch as well. Does this mean that we can expect a Gameworks type program for the switch AAA games that come out? Maybe the only games that will be released will be games with Nvidia partnership to begin with.

Nvidia does not enjoy putting their tech in bad products, we also know they have a huge influence with regards to optimizations in game development. The best case scenario is that Nvidia will have software guys with every AAA team to help with porting to Switch using their libraries and API

 

[thepath]

I thought that nvidia GPU would much more powerful than xbox one at same Gflops, because nvidia is competing with AMD GPU that have higher Gflops if you look at PC GPU's

 

[Maverick177]

Nope, sorry. It's three times slower than an Xbox One. The memory bandwidth is extremely weak compared to the standard desktop consoles. Most titles will render 504p which is the minimum requirement from Nintendo.

This is pathetic if true.