Nintendo Switch is powered by NVIDIA

[antihelten]

now wondering if the Wii U version of zelda looks better than the video from switch. Possibly weaker than Wii U?

You should be careful about using the trailer as a basis for any theories on how games will look. All of the on-screen gameplay we saw was undoubtedly added in post.

 

[sxr7171]

Sure it can do that, but without a dedicated integrated scaler, it would cost some non-zero amount of processing power to do so, potentially a significant amount when talking about some of the fancier upscaling algorithms.

That makes sense. They might have learned from the WiiU trying to get an underpowered system to drive two screens. We don't want this underpowered system trying to render out a game and also upscale.

It's a good design to put a hardware upscaler into the dock. However no matter how you great this scaler is blurriness is a given. The hallmarks of upscaling are blocking, blurring and halos. You can find a trade off between the 3. But can't get rid of them.

 

[ZipSpeed]

Uh, no. You might want them to be that, but not everyone does. Nintendo did not make its name as a software only company, they are a software AND hardware company. I mean, if they did that, we wouldn't be getting Breath of the Wild on the go. That's something I wouldn't want to miss.

And keep in mind that the software that comes out of a software-only Nintendo will be a shell of the software that comes out of a successful software-and-hardware Nintendo. Is the software that Sega puts out nowadays anything close to their 90s hardware heyday?

Well then, let us all hope the Switch will be a runaway success. Nintendo can't finance new hardware development indefinitely. There will be a point when they'll have to throw in the towel. I've literally owned every Nintendo system since the NES with the exception of the Virutal Boy. The Switch will be the first I won't be buying, but hey, maybe things will be different this time. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

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[sxr7171]

Well then, let us all hope the Switch will be a runaway success. Nintendo can't finance new hardware development indefinitely. There will be a point when they'll have to throw in the towel. I've literally owned every Nintendo system since the NES with the exception of the Virutal Boy. The Switch will be the first I won't be buying, but hey, maybe things will be different this time. But I'm not holding my breath.

I agree. It's time. I know Sega's output went to dogs after they exited hardware and it's sad. But I don't know why it had to be that way. The Dreamcast had an amazing line up.

With Nintendo really the argument is they should make hardware so they can keep making great games. Well they made hardware and not the games for the WiiU. Basically what games?

And really I'm in no mood to keep dropping $500 into hardware every 4 years just to play one developer's output. That defines blind fanboyistic stupidity.

I don't want to hear "oh it's just $300". If any of you has spent only $300 on any Nintendo system speak now. You have to buy all sorts of accessories over the lifetime of the system.

I'm a fan but not that much of a fan.

 

[sxr7171]

now wondering if the Wii U version of zelda looks better than the video from switch. Possibly weaker than Wii U?

That's a great question actually. And it also makes the point that maybe there's no point buying this Switch for Zelda. I'll just get it on WiiU.

 

[Madpacket]

It's nice to see additional 3rd party support. Hopefully the Switch sells well and the 3rd party support stays this time. The Wii U lost support pretty fast due to abysmal sales.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

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[sxr7171]

Print this post, wallpaper your home with it: judging graphical quality from clips that were added to a teaser trailer in post-production is the height of idiocy. Don't do that.

I don't see what my post has to do with the trailer. It's entirely plausible that the WiiU being a home console could be as powerful or even more powerful than this Switch portable. Let's not call this a hybrid. It's a portable with an upscaling dock.

Again I have no idea what the trailer has to do with anything. Even if the Switch is more powerful it won't be much if at all.

Besides this thing has been in development for WiiU since development started. It would be ported to ARM from PowerPC.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

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[sxr7171]

Ok so he mentions the video. I'm looking at it from a hardware perspective purely.

 

[Red Hawk]

I agree. It's time. I know Sega's output went to dogs after they exited hardware and it's sad. But I don't know why it had to be that way. The Dreamcast had an amazing line up.

With Nintendo really the argument is they should make hardware so they can keep making great games. Well they made hardware and not the games for the WiiU. Basically what games?

And really I'm in no mood to keep dropping $500 into hardware every 4 years just to play one developer's output. That defines blind fanboyistic stupidity.

I don't want to hear "oh it's just $300". If any of you has spent only $300 on any Nintendo system speak now. You have to buy all sorts of accessories over the lifetime of the system.

I'm a fan but not that much of a fan.

What games? Well...

Super Smash Bros 4
Splatoon
Super Mario 3D World
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Super Mario Maker
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart 8
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Yoshi's Wooly World
New Super Mario Bros Wii U

off the top of my head. And Bayonetta 2, though technically that was made by a third party developer exclusively for the Wii U.

It's not entirely uncommon for people to buy systems for just one or two games. That's why they're called "killer apps".

 

[sxr7171]

Which one of those is new IP?

 

[swilli89]

Which one of those is new IP?

Cool, bro you made your point. You're not interested in Nintendo's lame, reused IP. I think your contributions to this thread are over now as you obviously aren't excited or interested in the console or its underlying hardware.

 

[Red Hawk]

Which one of those is new IP?

Splatoon is, and it's been pretty darn successful, especially in Japan. Xenoblade Chronicles X is a relatively new IP, a spiritual successor (not a direct sequel) to Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii.

 

[sxr7171]

What games? Well...

Super Smash Bros 4
Splatoon
Super Mario 3D World
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Super Mario Maker
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart 8
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Yoshi's Wooly World
New Super Mario Bros Wii U

off the top of my head. And Bayonetta 2, though technically that was made by a third party developer exclusively for the Wii U.

It's not entirely uncommon for people to by systems for just one or two games. That's why they're called "killer apps".

Sure people do that and end up paying $250-300 per game. And some Nintendo fans are exactly that type. I unwittingly did that for the WiiU. The number of people who will do that any more for Nintendo stuff is shrinking. Usually middle age dudes buying for themselves under the guise of buying it for their kids.

Do you really think there are enough super fans to keep a manufacturing line going? Must be a few million WiiUs rotting in warehouses right now.

This may catch on if the price drops quickly enough. This isn't the 90s console market anymore when the game prices approached the console price. There are way too many portable games in the world on devices everybody already owns.

 

[Ranulf]

I don't think this is getting enough attention. For those of us who followed the rumors closely, this video didn't do much more than confirm what we already expected. I've liked the idea of a console/handheld hybrid ever since it was first mentioned months and months ago. It solves the problem of Nintendo development being spread thin across two platforms. Most of my biggest concerns were not addressed by this video, but one of them was: Nintendo's constant need to appeal to children first. The Wii U doesn't feel like an electronic device worth hundreds of dollars, it looks and feels like a toy. The Switch, on the other hand, looks polished and modern. If that mentality extends to the OS level, if it includes modern online capability, (better) support for things like Netflix and Hulu, they might really have hit this one out of the park.

The irony for me here is, I feel mostly the opposite. The Switch looks like a gimmicky toy to me, with goofy controls that are likely easily broken/lost etc.. Hopefully its battery life is far better than the wiiU's controller.

 

[HurleyBird]

This console is going to be a disaster.

The problem isn't even the specs, or the concept itself, but that it has the look of some kind of $50 econo-tablet designed for third world countries and unwitting Walmart shoppers - way too thick, ungodly bezels, generic cheap plastic, heat vents, etc. Even in the promotional material the screen has that same hazy, washed out look. And 720P just reinforces the comparison further.

Don't underestimate the importance of this impression, it's just as significant to the eventual failure of the Switch as anything else.

 

[sxr7171]

Cool, bro you made your point. You're not interested in Nintendo's lame, reused IP. I think your contributions to this thread are over now as you obviously aren't excited or interested in the console or its underlying hardware.

Calm down. Let's not get all hurt about it. I'm still interested in the hardware. But the market proposition this console faces today is insurmountable. That's just my opinion. If you don't like it you are encouraged to make your points as why it will sell 10-20 million or whatever it needs to sell to break even.

The hardware is interesting for a portable. Nice little Shield limited to proprietary software.

Why don't we discuss how comfortable the controllers look like they would be?

IMHO this has a place in the market like the Gameboy Advance did at $129. Good price to keep a kid quiet. At $300-400 this is for superfans. I realize that's many people here but you can create the fanboy thread in the console forums. I promise not to enter that thread.

 

[Grooveriding]

Looks pretty silly to me. An Android gaming tablet, with a mobile SOC, nintendo branded that you can stick in a dock and upscale the output to your HDTV's resolution. I wouldn't be surprised if raw performance of this and the old Wii U are quite similar.

It will be the same story as the last Nintendo console where if you really like mario and want to play the new mario, you'll buy this, otherwise you won't. I'll just play the new Zelda on my Wii U.

I wonder if the OS will be a modified custom version of Android. They'll need to be careful with this unit and it using cartridges and the new platform. The original Wii was plagued by piracy and with games being where they plan to make money, they need to make sure this unit is secure and doesn't end up getting hacked to be able to have pirated games run on it.

 

[Red Hawk]

Sure people do that and end up paying $250-300 per game. And some Nintendo fans are exactly that type. I unwittingly did that for the WiiU. The number of people who will do that any more for Nintendo stuff is shrinking. Usually middle age dudes buying for themselves under the guise of buying it for their kids.

Do you really think there are enough super fans to keep a manufacturing line going? Must be a few million WiiUs rotting in warehouses right now.

This may catch on if the price drops quickly enough. This isn't the 90s console market anymore when the game prices approached the console price. There are way too many portable games in the world on devices everybody already owns.

It's not somehow an exclusive mindset to Nintendo fans. I know a girl who bought a PS4 just for the prospect of being able to play Kingdom Hearts 3. And it doesn't just apply to existing franchises. Many people bought an original Xbox just so they could play Halo: Combat Evolved, and an Xbox 360 just so they could play the original Gears of War. You putting down that attitude as "blind fanboyistic idiocy" seems bit...I don't know. Condescending.

I do agree that Nintendo needs to make the device appealing to more than just the "superfans" if it's going to succeed. But let's not be insulting while we're making such statements, hmm?

IMHO this has a place in the market like the Gameboy Advance did at $129. Good price to keep a kid quiet. At $300-400 this is for superfans. I realize that's many people here but you can create the fanboy thread in the console forums. I promise not to enter that thread.

You're living in Dreamland if you think a handheld system with a Tegra X1/X2 should be $129 when the New 3DS XL is still going for $199 and the 3DS in general has been a success at that price point.

I wonder if the OS will be a modified custom version of Android. They'll need to be careful with this unit and it using cartridges and the new platform. The original Wii was plagued by piracy and with games being where they plan to make money, they need to make sure this unit is secure and doesn't end up getting hacked to be able to have pirated games run on it.

I'm pretty sure for this exact reason that Nintendo won't use an Android operating system, to minimize the risk of piracy. Going Android would also likely blow open the doors for emulation, which Nintendo systems have always been a prime focus of.

 

[Azix]

You should be careful about using the trailer as a basis for any theories on how games will look. All of the on-screen gameplay we saw was undoubtedly added in post.

what do you mean by this? i saw a video of it demoed on stage, and these

Its the N switch graphics I am not sure about, but doesn't look definitely better. If its touched up it should be looking better in that video than it will once released on switch though right?

 

[swilli89]

I think people are failing to realize that the Nintendo Switch will easily be the best ever graphics on a mobile device.

I want to compare to other mobile devices to get a rough idea of the performance we may see Nintendo squeeze out of the Switch. We can assume that when its docked the Switch will have additional power, cooling, and possible hardware up-scaling to assist in 1080p. However, I want to compare to mobile devices available now to try to get a real world idea of what we can reasonably expect.

Lets compare to the Vita. A well known portable gaming system. Keep in mind that the PS Vita, released late in 2011, featured a PowerVR 543MP4 which itself was around since 2009.
The PS Vita uses a PowerVR SGX543MP4+ (which is similar in design and performance to the iPhone 5 GPU), in order to compare to some more modern processors look at the Iphone 5 compared to an Ipad air. The Ipad air is about 2.5x faster than an Iphone 5.

In context below, lets keep in mind that the iPad Air, which is 2.5x faster than PS Vita, to the Kepler based K1 Shield Tablet.

Shield tablet uses a Kepler GPU (with 192 CUDA cores) The shield itself is 2.5x faster than Ipad Air. So the GPU in Shield tablet is more than 6x faster than the Vita GPU (!) in comparison (looking at GFXBench 3.0 Manhattan 1080p Offscreen benchmark data):

Nvidia Shield K1 uses 192 Kepler cores in a tablet-form power envelope. We all know we saw a massive efficiency gain going from Kepler to Maxwell. In addition to that, we have seen Pascal gain further power reductions with the help of the 16nm process and architecture updates.

The X2 is rumored to be 256 Pascal cores. With 25% more cores, vastly improved Pascal cores, and all on a 16nm process; we are looking at an X2 that is atleast as twice as fast as the K1.

Now think about the fact that the Shield Tablet is already 6x more powerful than the Vita, and that the rumored X2-based Switch would probably be at least twice as fast as the Shield, which has a resolution of 1920x1200p. Look at GTA V running on a shield tablet. It looks excellent and runs well.. Now watch this and imagine a system twice as fast with heavy Nintendo optimizations. Edit: Be sure to select 1080p when you watch the below.

A 256-core Pascal GPU with a possible embedded SRAM for free filtering (both Wii U and 3ds have dedicated SRAM), optimized by Nintendo and with custom APIs from nVidia will be plenty of power for 90% of console gamers out there. The only question in my mind is how easy will it be to develop for. If you consider the fact that its using arm cores and nVidia graphics units then you can also probably assume this will be much easier to develop for any past Nintendo system. People can relax, this system will be great.

 

[Red Hawk]

Now think about the fact that the Shield Tablet is already 6x more powerful than the Vita, and that the rumored X2-based Switch would probably be at least twice as fast as the Shield, which has a resolution of 1920x1200p. Look at GTA V running on a shield tablet. It looks excellent and runs well.. Now watch this and imagine a system twice as fast with heavy Nintendo optimizations. Edit: Be sure to select 1080p when you watch the below.

Your other points are good, but GTA V isn't directly running on a Shield tablet here, as it hasn't been released on Android. It's being streamed to the tablet from a gaming PC, meaning the tablet isn't doing any rendering of its own.

 

[swilli89]

Your other points are good, but GTA V isn't directly running on a Shield tablet here, as it hasn't been released on Android. It's being streamed to the tablet from a gaming PC, meaning the tablet isn't doing any rendering of its own.

Very good catch! I have found some locally rendered games played on the Shield TV (Tegra X1 256 Maxwell cores):

Just check out Doom 3 and MGS 5 in the video above.. remember this is a modified android runtime on the Shield TV. I expect with 20nm to 16nm and Maxwell to Pascal improvements + Nintendo's optimizations + Nvidia's custom close to metal API that we will get stunning looking games.