Nintendo Switch is powered by NVIDIA

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antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
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what do you mean by this? i saw a video of it demoed on stage, and these


Its the N switch graphics I am not sure about, but doesn't look definitely better. If its touched up it should be looking better in that video than it will once released on switch though right?

Those demos should also be taken with a grain of salt (although they are probably more trustworthy than what we saw in the Switch video).

Basically it's extremely common for publishers to show of their console titles at resolutions/settings that are higher than what the game will actually ship with. Since all of the gameplay we saw in the Switch trailer was undoubtably added in post and not captured running live on the consoles in the video, the ones who made the video would likely have selected said gameplay in a manner that makes the games look as good as possible.

So as far as the Wii U vs. Switch comparison goes, I would say that based on the videos we have seen so far we have no reason to suspect that they will differ significantly (since the Switch videos are unreliable). This doesn't mean that it's not possible for the Switch to look better, it simply means that we can't conclusively say so at this point in time.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
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So as far as the Wii U vs. Switch comparison goes, I would say that based on the videos we have seen so far we have no reason to suspect that they will differ significantly (since the Switch videos are unreliable). This doesn't mean that it's not possible for the Switch to look better, it simply means that we can't conclusively say so at this point in time.

Latte is pretty slow... The Tegra X2 as it is has 2.1x the FP32 and the fill and texture rates seem like it's ~2x too. It does have edram though (70 GB/sec) so that could be a problem if the Switch doesn't. Of course there's no guarantee that the Switch is using the X2 or something similar.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
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And Latte is based on a very outdated architecture. Parker has not only the theoretical 2x advantage the architecture is at least 50% better and much more when using the superior featureset of the chip.
And dont forget Pascal's memory compression which can result in 2x more throughput over the theoretical bandwidth.

We can expect a 3x+ performance increase over the Wiiu.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
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Latte is pretty slow... The Tegra X2 as it is has 2.1x the FP32 and the fill and texture rates seem like it's ~2x too. It does have edram though (70 GB/sec) so that could be a problem if the Switch doesn't. Of course there's no guarantee that the Switch is using the X2 or something similar.

It's worth noting that Tegra X2 only has 2 times the FP32 throughput when running at about 1.5 GHz. The numbers we have gotten from Nvidia does indicate that it is capable of running this fast, but those numbers were generally also centered around a version of Tegra X2 targeted at the automotive market where TDP isn't really a major issue. In the Swift it is perfectly possible that it is running at a significantly lower clock to save battery and prevent throttling.

As such it may only be marginally faster than Latte in FP32 (if for instance it runs at 850 MHz like the Tegra X1 does in the Pixel C tablet), and when you combine this with the potential bandwidth limitations, I don't think we can conclusively say anything at this point.

So all in all, we really need some more in depth spec numbers before we can say anything informed in this regard.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
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So all in all, we really need some more in depth spec numbers before we can say anything informed in this regard.

I agree. I'm not even convinced it is Pascal at this point. The TDP of it in tablet mode is for sure going to be very high though and much higher than the Pixel C. I do wish it had at least 512 cores though although that seems unlikely.
 

lolipopman

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
9
1
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I agree. I'm not even convinced it is Pascal at this point. The TDP of it in tablet mode is for sure going to be very high though and much higher than the Pixel C. I do wish it had at least 512 cores though although that seems unlikely.
I don't think so. It's either going to be using Pascal or Maxwell architecture. Doesn't seem very vague when we know where both stand in terms of real world performance.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,558
1,181
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And Latte is based on a very outdated architecture. Parker has not only the theoretical 2x advantage the architecture is at least 50% better and much more when using the superior featureset of the chip.
And dont forget Pascal's memory compression which can result in 2x more throughput over the theoretical bandwidth.

We can expect a 3x+ performance increase over the Wiiu.

As these posters have said, we are looking at a vastly improved architecture. Latte is based on VLIW4 which is extremely outdated. Comparing fp32 and fill rates to something this old is very hard. Yes, we can't conclusively say that this will be much faster than the Wii U, but we can surmise that it should be so, especially in docked mode at home.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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If looking at the Switch (I like the NX name more) as a 3DS/New 3DS replacement, it looks like a far superior mobile gaming platform. Strictly from a mobile gaming point of view, even at $299, due to the large screen, likely more comfortable controls than on the 3DS and flexibility to play on the TV, this would seem like a good deal compared to the $199 3DS. From a performance perspective, compared to the 3DS/New 3DS, this is also a huge leap forward. The major downside for 3DS/mobile owners is that it likely means Nintendo will raise the price of games by $10-20 because they are positioning the Switch as a home console too.

My personal gripe with this console is that as a home console, it is not what I wanted. I am never going to be playing games on the train, in a taxi, on an airplane. That means for home console consumers, we will have the console plugged in at home almost the entire time and will end up paying a premium for the portable features we'd never use. In turn, we also get extremely weak performance for a 2017 home console. Here are are my major gripes (all conjecture at this point) for the Switch as a home console:

1) Starting price probably doesn't have the traditional controller -- Chances are the rumoured $299 starting console will not have the Pro controller. I guess that's pretty obvious. Once we add the cost of the Pro controller for traditional gaming, the price of the console will go up to at least $349. Hopefully Nintendo ships the Joy-con cradle in the $299 price. If not, that's yet another added cost to push us into the $399 bundle.

2) Lack of sufficient built-in storage / room for 2.5" HDD expansion in the dock -- Due to the portable nature of the Switch, it seems highly unlikely that it will have storage beyond 128GB. Fingers crossed Nintendo at least left room in the thicker version of the dock for a 2.5" HDD. On one hand, having options for 1-2TB of storage built into the dock would allow Nintendo to sell games online, but otoh, I can imagine how Nintendo would be paranoid that a physical and removable HDD would open them up for piracy. For that reason, I fear there is no HDD storage inside the dock, and there is no space built into the dock for 2.5" HDD expansion. If we add the cost of an external USB 3.0 1-2TB HDD, the cost will go up even more from $349 (with the Pro controller). Suddenly the $299 console would turn into a $425-450 console if one desires the traditional controller and a 1-2TB external drive (assuming storage of games on the external HDD is supported in the first place).

3) High(er) prices of games due to cartridges -- Extrapolating from the point above, if NX does not have large built-in storage, and since games are approaching 40-60GB in size this generation, it's going to be very hard to have a lot of leeway on discounting games built on cartridges. This is actually what hurt N64 a lot. Even though we already have 1TB SD cards, even 64-128GB SD cards aren't that cheap yet. It will make games more expensive to produce than on PS4/XB1 consoles. As a result, I am expecting Switch games to stay priced closer to MSRP much longer than they are on PS4/XB1 consoles.

4) Battery life could be a deal-breaker -- Honestly if the Switch's battery life is less than 4 hours, that would be a big deal. If would necessitate buying the Pro controller for home gaming and severely limit the appeal of the console on the go. Nintendo will have to contend with having a large and possibly heavy battery inside the "brains of the Switch" (aka the display section) or not having enough battery life but having a light Switch console. This is a big engineering challenge.

5) Not even 2013 Home Console Performance in 2017 -- As I said, when looking at the Switch as a portable gaming device, it's looking great. When looking at it as a home console, it's exactly what I feared - not even as powerful as Xbox One. Forget Xbox One because in 2017, after adding the cost of the Pro Controller, it's most likely going to be $349 NX vs. $399 PS4 Pro. When comparing home vs. home console experience (for those who don't care about the Switch's mobile aspects), this suddenly makes the NX seem way too expensive for the hardware we are getting. Since we know from various technical write-ups on Pascal that Maxwell and Pascal's CUDA cores, TMUs, ROPs, etc. have more or less identical IPC, if the SoC inside the Switch even had 384 CUDA cores, it's only going to be as fast as 60% of GTX750Ti (60%*640 CUDA cores = 384 CUDA cores where 1058mhz Maxwell = 1058mhz Pascal).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/4

We cannot even use the argument of 50GB/sec Pascal having superior delta colour compression to Maxwell because 750Ti has 86.4GB/sec memory bandwidth, easily offsetting any DCC advantages Pascal has.

This is a big deal because the biggest issue of 3rd party ports being easy to port from XB/PS4/PC would still be a challenge due to weak GPU horsepower, and lack of memory bandwidth. To exacerbate the matters, recent XB1 games such as Forza Horizon 3 or Gears of War 4 or Rise of the Tomb Raider show performance well above HD7790 level because developers are now optimizing and have learned the ins and outs of GCN. While in the past an i3 and 750Ti was providing similar or better performance than XB1, now an i5 and GTX950/960 is needed. Even if developers start optimizing games for the Tegra Pascal SoC, it's highly unlikely they can magically go from 256-384 CUDA core Pascal to roughly GTX950/960 level of GPU performance. The other thing is, even if they do, it'll take 2-3 years and by then this PS4/XB1 console generation is all but over. The first 1-2 year of Switch games, are NOT going to be specifically optimized to take full advantage of the hardware of the Switch because almost all the cross-platform console games are made for GCN/PC level hardware, not ARM and custom Pascal Tegra SoC.

6) No indication that 3rd party support will be strong over the 4-5 year life-span of the Switch -- Originally, we did get some 3rd party games ported to the Wii U. Even though the Switch is going to be way more powerful than the Wii U, the storage on cartridges, memory bandwidth, completely different ARM SoC, and rather weak Pascal GPU compared to modern 2017 consoles could seriously make it very expensive to port 2017-2019 3rd party games to the console. Since the console is not x86 and doesn't even have GCN, it's never going to be as simple as cross-porting games between PC/XB1 and PS4. Automatically it means that making games for the Switch will cost extra and the install base during the 1st or 2nd year is unlikely to reach 40 million.

7) Launch timing is sub-optimal -- If next generation PS5/XB2 launch in 2019-2020, the Switch only has 2-3 years of time to be relevant. By 2020, PS4/XB1 will be 7 years old and it's unimaginable that Sony/MS will not do a clean-slate PS5/XB2. This means exactly by the time developers will start learning all the ins and outs of the Switch's hardware is when they could shift their game development focus on XB2 and PS5. Even if the Switch has some 3rd party support during the first 2-3 years, it's not hard to imagine that the Switch will be exactly like the Wii U was once PS4/XB1 launched. Because of the timing of the Switch's launch, there is a high likely-hood the console will not only compete with existing consoles, but also with 9th gen Sony/MS consoles. Honestly, that's a very risky move and limits the Switch's life-cycle.

8) Future backwards compatibility -- By going with ARM/custom Tegra SoC/Pascal eco-system, Nintendo put themselves in a corner. It's highly likely that next gen PS5/XB2 are still going to be x86 consoles. It means the Switch 2 or whatever will once again have to decide to go with x86 and break BC with the Switch OR stick to under-performing mobile SoC / ARM eco-system of 2020. Once Sony say moves to x86 6-8 core Zen in 2020, it's going to take a heck of a mobile SoC to match that in the next Nintendo console.

9) Reliability of the moving parts -- How long will the parts last if a gamer switches them daily in and out. It's going to be take time to test this out and early adopters will be the ones doing it. That's a risk that's simply not there with the other consoles.

I think if we look at the Switch as the most powerful Nintendo console to enjoy Nintendo games, then it's likely going to be way more successful than the Wii U. In fact, Nintendo should try and port every single Wii or at least the Wii U exclusives to the Switch since so many Nintendo gamers outright skipped both the Wii and the Wii U. If we look at Nintendo's Switch as fixing all the things we didn't like about the Wii and Wii U, imho, they have not done any of that.

I still do not understand why Nintendo did not position the Switch as the 3DS successor and given us a proper traditional home console. It's not as if the 3DS didn't successfully co-exist with the Wii/Wii U. Nintendo has enough $ to have created a 2nd next gen $450-500 powerful console with 4K and VR capability for the home, but they didn't...
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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8) Future backwards compatibility -- By going with ARM/custom Tegra SoC/Pascal eco-system, Nintendo put themselves in a corner. It's highly likely that next gen PS5/XB2 are still going to be x86 consoles. It means the Switch 2 or whatever will once again have to decide to go with x86 and break BC with the Switch OR stick to under-performing mobile SoC / ARM eco-system of 2020. Once Sony say moves to x86 6-8 core Zen in 2020, it's going to take a heck of a mobile SoC to match that in the next Nintendo console.

You are totally underselling ARM. If anything, the Denver 2 core(s) should be far more powerful than the console Jaguar ones. That might actually be a strong suit for this. Of course if it only has 2+4 that will be an issue...

I still do not understand why Nintendo did not position the Switch as the 3DS successor and given us a proper traditional home console. It's not as if the 3DS didn't successfully co-exist with the Wii/Wii U. Nintendo has enough $ to have created a 2nd next gen $450-500 powerful console with 4K and VR capability for the home, but they didn't...

There's a rumor now that Nintendo is working on a "true" 3DS successor, although that might be hedging their bets. I still think if Switch is a flop then Nintendo will just release smartphone games and completely abandon the 'hardcore' market.
 
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raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
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You are totally underselling ARM. If anything, the Denver 2 core(s) should be far more powerful than the console Jaguar ones. That might actually be a strong suit for this. Of course if it only has 2+4 that will be an issue...

RS is talking about the upcoming Sony and Microsoft consoles in 2019 or 2020. They will be based on a successor of Zen (probably Zen+) and they are going to be extremely powerful cpu cores. AMD's entire product line up from CPU to APUs to semi-custom will be driven by Zen and it successors from 2017. Other than Apple's custom ARM cores nobody has a ARM CPU core which can come close to what AMD is building with Zen and its successors..
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
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If looking at the Switch (I like the NX name more) as a 3DS/New 3DS replacement, it looks like a far superior mobile gaming platform. Strictly from a mobile gaming point of view, even at $299, due to the large screen, likely more comfortable controls than on the 3DS and flexibility to play on the TV, this would seem like a good deal compared to the $199 3DS. From a performance perspective, compared to the 3DS/New 3DS, this is also a huge leap forward. The major downside for 3DS/mobile owners is that it likely means Nintendo will raise the price of games by $10-20 because they are positioning the Switch as a home console too.

My personal gripe with this console is that as a home console, it is not what I wanted. I am never going to be playing games on the train, in a taxi, on an airplane. That means for home console consumers, we will have the console plugged in at home almost the entire time and will end up paying a premium for the portable features we'd never use. In turn, we also get extremely weak performance for a 2017 home console. Here are are my major gripes (all conjecture at this point) for the Switch as a home console:

In relation to this it's worth noting that Nintendo themselves have essentially said that they see the Switch as a home console first and portable second. Which is a bit worrisome for all the reasons you mention.

1) Starting price probably doesn't have the traditional controller -- Chances are the rumoured $299 starting console will not have the Pro controller. I guess that's pretty obvious. Once we add the cost of the Pro controller for traditional gaming, the price of the console will go up to at least $349. Hopefully Nintendo ships the Joy-con cradle in the $299 price. If not, that's yet another added cost to push us into the $399 bundle.

I'm not sure I would add the price of both the pro controller and the cradle (this getting a total cost of $399), since I doubt people would want to buy both, it would either be one or the other.

2) Lack of sufficient built-in storage / room for 2.5" HDD expansion in the dock -- Due to the portable nature of the Switch, it seems highly unlikely that it will have storage beyond 128GB. Fingers crossed Nintendo at least left room in the thicker version of the dock for a 2.5" HDD. On one hand, having options for 1-2TB of storage built into the dock would allow Nintendo to sell games online, but otoh, I can imagine how Nintendo would be paranoid that a physical and removable HDD would open them up for piracy. For that reason, I fear there is no HDD storage inside the dock, and there is no space built into the dock for 2.5" HDD expansion. If we add the cost of an external USB 3.0 1-2TB HDD, the cost will go up even more from $349 (with the Pro controller). Suddenly the $299 console would turn into a $425-450 console if one desires the traditional controller and a 1-2TB external drive (assuming storage of games on the external HDD is supported in the first place).

I don't know if it's true, but there are rumors that the Switch has an SD card slot.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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You are totally underselling ARM. If anything, the Denver 2 core(s) should be far more powerful than the console Jaguar ones. That might actually be a strong suit for this. Of course if it only has 2+4 that will be an issue...

Aren't Arm's SIMD and VFP vector instructions incompatible with Intel's x86 SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4, AVX and AVX2? I don't see how Nintendo will manage to have an ARM competitor SoC to compare with next generation PS5/XB2 once those consoles adopt faster 6-8 x86 cores.

Look at Rise of the Tomb Raider, DE:MD, Forza Horizon 3, GoW4, etc. You cannot achieve the same level of console quality on an i3-6100 and GTX750Ti anymore. We are no longer comparing 2013 8-core Jaguar 7790/7850 level consoles. Games such as Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn are on another level entirely. On the PC we'd probably need an FX8350/i5-6500 and GTX970/R9 390 to play them well at 1080p. Right now, developers are starting to tap into the full potential of current gen, but in 2017 MS/Sony will have even more powerful consoles. It's almost misleading to try and compare the Switch to the original 2013 consoles because for $399 there is PS4 Pro available next month. For the home console experience, $299 XB1S brings 4K Blu-Ray and a traditional controller included, while PS4 Pro brings premium console experience for only $100 more. Between those 2 offerings, for the home console environment, the Switch doesn't bring anything to the table besides Nintendo games. Given the anemic hardware, you are still going to get the best 3rd party sports game, racing game and 3rd person adventure/action game experience on either of the other 2 consoles. If the PS4 Pro is $399 and 2017 Scorpio is $449 and the Switch with the Pro Controller is $349-399, Nintendo is not going to convert many gamers to their console. That's why I think it's best to view this as the best Nintendo console for Nintendo games and a great 2nd console. Obviously for those who wanted the most premium portable console, this system is top grade.

By the time the ARM SoC and Pascal GPU are fully taken advantage of, this console generation will be over. Think about how underwhelming the hardware on the Switch already looks if it has 256-384 Pascal cores with 50GB/sec memory bandwidth compared to PS4 Pro and Scorpio and think how insanely outdated that hardware will look in just 3 years from now by 2020. [again speaking only from a home console experience]

Another thing is by the time the Switch launches, XB1+PS4 install base could approach 75-80 million users. What makes you think 3rd party developers will go out of their way in 2017 to start optimizing their games to run on the Switch as good as the other 2 consoles? You are likely going to need a dedicated team specifically for the Switch. Instead of trying to reach graphical parity with XB1/PS4 that may take several extra months and more programmers, will be just easier to lower settings, resolution, or fps on the Switch and move on. Without 40-60 million Switch users, it doesn't make that much sense in the context of how modern AAA games are already rushed to try to extra maximum performance out of the Switch to try and match superior hardware because as a developer you don't even know if your game will sell that well on what 10-15 million installed Switch console by March 2018?

Nintendo Switch is basically an 8th gen console, what the Wii U should have been in the first place. Now Nintendo has a chance to bring all the best Wii and Wii U games as remasters to this console + all the new Nintendo Switch exclusive titles. Normally people hate remasters because a lot of gamers played them on their old console. In Nintendo's case, a lot of gamers skipped the Wii and esp. Wii U. That means someone might actually spend $350 to play the entire library of 2006-2016 Nintendo games + the next 5 years of future Nintendo games. That's why I think looking at it as a Nintendo console to catch up on missed Nintendo games is not going to leave the consumer disappointed. Also, 3DS users will love this as an upgrade path. As far as moving the needle for XB1/PS4 consoles, maybe as a 2nd console towards the end of the life-cycle it will make sense as more games are released. Still, for the premium home console market, Nintendo is unlikely to move the market perception with this console.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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In relation to this it's worth noting that Nintendo themselves have essentially said that they see the Switch as a home console first and portable second. Which is a bit worrisome for all the reasons you mention.

Ya, I read that. It's concerning too because this would have been perfect as a portable console, allowing Nintendo 2-3 more years to release a 9th gen home console in 2019-2020. I would have been perfectly OK with that. As soon as I think of the Switch as a portable 3DS successor with home console functionality, any negative perceptions about it fade. As soon as I think of the Switch as a home console with portable functionality, I start judging it against PS4 Pro/XB Scorpio. Nintendo still has 5+ months to hone in on the message. In 3 years from now, they can include the Switch ARM SoC inside their home console if they want and let us play the entire Switch library at home on their true home console. But of course that's my wishful thinking.

I'm not sure I would add the price of both the pro controller and the cradle (this getting a total cost of $399), since I doubt people would want to buy both, it would either be one or the other.

I see what you mean. That's a good point. With the aspect of mobility though I have a feeling the Joy-grip will be a part of the bundle and the Pro controller will be a standalone.

I don't know if it's true, but there are rumors that the Switch has an SD card slot.

SD cards beyond 128GB start to get pretty expensive, $70-80. That's not going to work well at all as a solution to store games purchased online. Right now a 4TB external HDD costs $110.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
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RS is talking about the upcoming Sony and Microsoft consoles in 2019 or 2020. They will be based on a successor of Zen (probably Zen+) and they are going to be extremely powerful cpu cores. AMD's entire product line up from CPU to APUs to semi-custom will be driven by Zen and it successors from 2017. Other than Apple's custom ARM cores nobody has a ARM CPU core which can come close to what AMD is building with Zen and its successors..

You'd be surprised, or maybe you are being too optimistic about Zen. Remember a theoretical console using Zen isn't going to be running at 4+ Ghz. I looked at the Geekbench 4 scores and while I can't decide on what tests would be relevant to a game console, it sure looks like that even the generic ARM cores are far faster in perf/clock than something like Bristol Ridge.

Nintendo could have easily had nVidia build an SoC that was faster than the PS4 while still keeping the hybrid design. After all, nVidia's willing to put 180W GPUs into a laptop. I don't know what a chip would have cost though.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
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You'd be surprised, or maybe you are being too optimistic about Zen. Remember a theoretical console using Zen isn't going to be running at 4+ Ghz. I looked at the Geekbench 4 scores and while I can't decide on what tests would be relevant to a game console, it sure looks like that even the generic ARM cores are far faster in perf/clock than something like Bristol Ridge.

Nintendo could have easily had nVidia build an SoC that was faster than the PS4 while still keeping the hybrid design. After all, nVidia's willing to put 180W GPUs into a laptop. I don't know what a chip would have cost though.
Remember TDP... the TDP from the AMD consoles are 2X to 4X higher than the nVIDIA ones.... also... the GPU from the switch are on the league of Apple instead of the big consoles.
 

ReignQuake

Member
Dec 8, 2015
86
5
11
Clearly this console is to satisfy the shareholders, this is about money rather than a good idea. Nintendo clearly needs to have a secondary GPU sitting in that dock.
 

SunnyNW

Junior Member
Jul 11, 2016
13
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I personally believe that depending on the reception to the Switch, Nintendo could/might offer a dedicated "home" version later on down the line (late 2017 or later). What do you guys/gals think? They could just include the same SoC and not need the screen. Reasons driving this decision could include:
  • Poor sales of the Switch
  • Maybe a lot bigger percentage of people (than what Nintendo projected) keep it docked at home, due to Nintendo over estimating what people consider "portable" (I personally believe its too big)
  • Expanding on that last point... To appeal to those consumers that are only interested in a WiiU home successor (without the tablet controller of course)
  • Could offer higher performance due to higher TDP with active cooling
  • Offer more storage (2.5" hdd, etc.) - Dont believe the current dock allows expanded storage
  • The Switch being considered over-priced for what it is
  • Offer a WAY more attractive value (no screen needed, battery, side joy-cons, etc.)
  • The final product could also be more aesthetically appealing, fitting in better with traditional A/V gear.
Nintendo could basically offer what could be considered their own version of the Nvidia Shield TV. They could offer their own entertainment as well, make a custom Android TV version and include all Google Play apps, games, music/movies (They are already using ARM so should be minimal effort). And to differentiate they should add their own exclusive kid-friendly programming such as offer Mario shows/movies, Pokemon shows/movies, anime shows (Dragonball and others), other popular kid shows airing today, popular shows of the past not easily found elsewhere, and maybe Disney entertainment.

I'm not saying this will happen and realistically speaking I'm sure the probability is slim but does seem like a viable direction that Nintendo could take.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,847
5,457
136
A home console only version is definitely a possibility but it would be strictly for lowering the BOM. I don't know if there is enough there you could cut that would make enough of a difference though.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Famitsu.com:

"Q this time announced body, dock, Joy-Con, Will be shipped with all Joy-Con grip package?
A concerning product mix you will be published in again around to before the launch, but two is Joy-Con, ie Joy-Con (L) and Joy-Con (R) is a bundled plan."


It sounds like the base console will not have the portable Joy-Con controllers, which should mean the Joy-Con Grip isn't included either.
 

DamZe

Member
May 18, 2016
187
80
101
Famitsu.com:

"Q this time announced body, dock, Joy-Con, Will be shipped with all Joy-Con grip package?
A concerning product mix you will be published in again around to before the launch, but two is Joy-Con, ie Joy-Con (L) and Joy-Con (R) is a bundled plan."


It sounds like the base console will not have the portable Joy-Con controllers, which should mean the Joy-Con Grip isn't included either.

Does that mean the base console is sold without a controller?
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
No this is just speculation. Nintendo will certainly release the console with the two side controllers.

What kind of a question was that? Haha. Nintendo be dead in the water if they tried to pull that off. That be even worse than the "new HD PS3, $600!!! (HDMI cable sold separately)" gaffe.

EDIT: From what I'm seeing there are only two controllers available.
Joy-Con (the two boxy controllers that slide onto the device, and slide into the grip-adapter) and the Pro. No word if prior accessories will be compatible, but those are the only two new controllers I've seen/read about.

The Grip is just an adapter with wings that the Joy-Cons slide into, it isn't an actual controller.

EDIT #2:


You can see the three items there, where as the joy-cons just slide into the grip. I'm also going to assume these things have internal batteries, some and the Grip itself possibly houses its own battery-pak for prolonged gaming sessions.
 

swilli89

Golden Member
Mar 23, 2010
1,558
1,181
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What kind of a question was that? Haha. Nintendo be dead in the water if they tried to pull that off. That be even worse than the "new HD PS3, $600!!! (HDMI cable sold separately)" gaffe.

EDIT: From what I'm seeing there are only two controllers available.
Joy-Con (the two boxy controllers that slide onto the device, and slide into the grip-adapter) and the Pro. No word if prior accessories will be compatible, but those are the only two new controllers I've seen/read about.

The Grip is just an adapter with wings that the Joy-Cons slide into, it isn't an actual controller.

EDIT #2:


You can see the three items there, where as the joy-cons just slide into the grip. I'm also going to assume these things have internal batteries, some and the Grip itself possibly houses its own battery-pak for prolonged gaming sessions.

Exactly. Nintendo would never shoot the self in the foot like this.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
As these posters have said, we are looking at a vastly improved architecture. Latte is based on VLIW4 which is extremely outdated. Comparing fp32 and fill rates to something this old is very hard. Yes, we can't conclusively say that this will be much faster than the Wii U, but we can surmise that it should be so, especially in docked mode at home.
Actually, Latte wasn't even VLIW4. Nintendo never confirmed just what it was, but the most credible rumors were that the Wii U was using the R700 architecture, aka the Radeon HD 4000 series, and the chip itself was something close to a Radeon HD 4650. Yeah. It wasn't just pre-GCN, it wasn't just pre-VLIW4, it was pre-DirectX 11 features altogether. On a dinky little chip. So if the Switch's SOC is Pascal or even just Maxwell, it's already going to be light years ahead of the Wii U.

I still do not understand why Nintendo did not position the Switch as the 3DS successor and given us a proper traditional home console. It's not as if the 3DS didn't successfully co-exist with the Wii/Wii U. Nintendo has enough $ to have created a 2nd next gen $450-500 powerful console with 4K and VR capability for the home, but they didn't...

Actually no, the 3DS and Wii U didn't successfully coexist, in that both had good sales. The Wii U was a colossal flop. That's why Nintendo is trying this instead of just releasing a new, traditional home console.

Clearly this console is to satisfy the shareholders, this is about money rather than a good idea. Nintendo clearly needs to have a secondary GPU sitting in that dock.

And you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...
 
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