Nintendo Switch is powered by NVIDIA

[Headfoot]

Changing workloads to accomodate an assymetrical 4+4 CPU configuration will absolutely require a change to the game design and work distribution. So would the lack of reliable always on internet connectivity. Lower power GPUs may necessitate renderer changes.

And there's no way to debate the fact that an entirely new graphics API will require redesigning all of the graphics function calls. DX12 transition hasnt exactly been smooth, and we're likely talking an even larger difference in API design here than DX12 presented.

So yes, it will absolutely require changing the game design for a port.

 

[dogen1]

Changing workloads to accomodate an assymetrical 4+4 CPU configuration will absolutely require a change to the game design and work distribution. So would the lack of reliable always on internet connectivity. Lower power GPUs may necessitate renderer changes.

Maybe the lower power cores would be reserved for background tasks. So, maybe it'll be 4-6 A72/73s with 2-4 A53s dedicated to running the os. Since it's a console, devs are gonna expect reliable performance, so I don't think it's necessarily gonna behave like a normal bigLITTLE setup. But I'm just making semi educated guesses.

 

[xpea]

Changing workloads to accomodate an assymetrical 4+4 CPU configuration will absolutely require a change to the game design and work distribution. So would the lack of reliable always on internet connectivity. Lower power GPUs may necessitate renderer changes.

And there's no way to debate the fact that an entirely new graphics API will require redesigning all of the graphics function calls. DX12 transition hasnt exactly been smooth, and we're likely talking an even larger difference in API design here than DX12 presented.

So yes, it will absolutely require changing the game design for a port.

In case of you don't know, ARM big.little arch is the number one gaming platform by far with billions of phones sold every year...
and looking at the first Seasons of Heaven teaser below, I'm not worry at all for the Switch performance

edit: Dev says video is in game footage https://twitter.com/AnyArtsProd/status/809033546157457410

 

[DeathReborn]

As far as cartridge storage goes I would have liked to have seen 16GB, 32GB & 64GB options with added cost for each higher tier which the developer/publisher pays. Although I think it will just be a patch to support higher capacities and they will have 32/64GB within 18 months of launch.

 

[antihelten]

Changing workloads to accomodate an assymetrical 4+4 CPU configuration will absolutely require a change to the game design and work distribution. So would the lack of reliable always on internet connectivity. Lower power GPUs may necessitate renderer changes.

And there's no way to debate the fact that an entirely new graphics API will require redesigning all of the graphics function calls. DX12 transition hasnt exactly been smooth, and we're likely talking an even larger difference in API design here than DX12 presented.

So yes, it will absolutely require changing the game design for a port.

I think we have a different definition of what game design means. To me none of the things you describe (renderer changes, graphics function, accommodating new CPU and API etc.) are game design, those things are game engine design (which I absolutely agree would need to change).

Game design on the other hand would be stuff like a first person shooter have regenerating health versus having health packs, or a MOBA game like DOTA2 having an item mechanic, where Heroes of the storm doesn't. None of these things would need to change on the Switch (only exception, being the possible differences in online capabilities, I suppose the smaller screen might also force some changes to game interface design).

In case of you don't know, ARM big.little arch is the number one gaming platform by far with billions of phones sold every year...
and looking at the first Seasons of Heaven teaser below, I'm not worry at all for the Switch performance

edit: Dev says video is in game footage https://twitter.com/AnyArtsProd/status/809033546157457410

ARM may be the biggest gaming platform, but that is only for mobile games, which are obviously not the kind of ports we're talking about here.

Seasons of Heaven is an interesting point though, since it runs on Unreal Engine, so it indicates that any of the console games out there running on Unreal engine wouldn't necessarily be that difficult to port (at least not anymore difficult than your average console port).

 

[tviceman]

In case of you don't know, ARM big.little arch is the number one gaming platform by far with billions of phones sold every year...
and looking at the first Seasons of Heaven teaser below, I'm not worry at all for the Switch performance

edit: Dev says video is in game footage https://twitter.com/AnyArtsProd/status/809033546157457410

I have no interest for a portable console, perhaps my kids will when they get a little older, but I must say if games on the switch can actually match that fidelity and maintain great frame rates, Nintendo is going to sell these as fast as they can make them for years to come. I'm personally most interested in what the final Tegra specs will end up being and how much clock speed difference it'll have when docked vs. portable.

 

[antihelten]

I'm personally most interested in what the final Tegra specs will end up being and how much clock speed difference it'll have when docked vs. portable.

For what it's worth Tegra X1 in the Pixel C tablet runs at about 650 MHz versus 1 GHz in the Shield TV console (which has a built in fan, and runs off mains using about 20W total). I imagine we might see a similar relative gap for the Switch undocked vs. docked.

 

[Red Hawk]

Game design on the other hand would be stuff like a first person shooter have regenerating health versus having health packs, or a MOBA game like DOTA2 having an item mechanic, where Heroes of the storm doesn't. None of these things would need to change on the Switch (only exception, being the possible differences in online capabilities, I suppose the smaller screen might also force some changes to game interface design).

Game design can be affected by system specs. One recent example is Dragon Age Inquisition. At E3 before the game's release, the devs showed out impressive features like destructible terrain, and a more dynamic, persistent world with active events. You could burn enemy ships on a beach to keep their army from being able to retreat, or make a choice between holding a fortress or diverting your forces to save a village at the cost of losing the fortress to enemy forces. When the actual game was released, these features were conspicuously absent. When asked about it in an interview later, the game's director basically said that they couldn't get those features to run on Xbox 360 or PS3, so they were cut across the board. Last gen consoles were later dropped from support with DLC.

In case of you don't know, ARM big.little arch is the number one gaming platform by far with billions of phones sold every year...
and looking at the first Seasons of Heaven teaser below, I'm not worry at all for the Switch performance

edit: Dev says video is in game footage https://twitter.com/AnyArtsProd/status/809033546157457410

Now this...this is interesting. Definitely a spiffy looking exclusive for the Switch to have.

 

[tential]

In Game Cutscene footage then....
Why don't you wait for GAMEPLAY footage.

 

[swilli89]

I have no interest for a portable console, perhaps my kids will when they get a little older, but I must say if games on the switch can actually match that fidelity and maintain great frame rates, Nintendo is going to sell these as fast as they can make them for years to come. I'm personally most interested in what the final Tegra specs will end up being and how much clock speed difference it'll have when docked vs. portable.

I agree, if the games that require it can maintain these levels of graphics this thing will be more than fine. I'm very eager to see how Skyrim ends up playing on the Switch. I fly maybe about 10 hours a month and this thing will be invaluable it can deliver that kind of experience on the go.

 

[antihelten]

Game design can be affected by system specs. One recent example is Dragon Age Inquisition. At E3 before the game's release, the devs showed out impressive features like destructible terrain, and a more dynamic, persistent world with active events. You could burn enemy ships on a beach to keep their army from being able to retreat, or make a choice between holding a fortress or diverting your forces to save a village at the cost of losing the fortress to enemy forces. When the actual game was released, these features were conspicuously absent. When asked about it in an interview later, the game's director basically said that they couldn't get those features to run on Xbox 360 or PS3, so they were cut across the board. Last gen consoles were later dropped from support with DLC.

This is a good point. Game features that are particularly physics heavy (and thus CPU heavy) could certainly end up being cut on a lesser console.

But that then opens up a related question. Is the Switch really inferior to the PS4/Xbone CPU wise, or in other words are the 2 Denver cores plus 4 A57 cores (assuming the Switch has the same CPU as Tegra Parker) inferior to 8 Jaguar cores?

 

[dacostafilipe]

Seems like Nintendo is using a Maxwell Tegra (German) : http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/14/nintendo-switch-specs-less-powerful-than-playstation-4/

 

[Face2Face]

I hope it's not Maxwell. I mean, the X1 is great and everything, but it's going to have a two year old GPU design by the time this thing comes out, as Volta is expected to come out next year as well... I find it hard to believe the game trailer above is using an X1 or some derivative of it.

 

[caswow]

I hope it's not Maxwell. I mean, the X1 is great and everything, but it's going to have a two year old GPU design by the time this thing comes out, as Volta is expected to come out next year as well... I find it hard to believe the game trailer above is using an X1 or some derivative of it.

iam sorry but you really thought this will be ingame? it looks like a tech demo this is never ingame graphics

 

[crisium]

Nintendo's November 2012 WiiU used essentially a 40nm Radeon 4000 series. The first 40nm Radeon 4000 released was April 2009.

A March 2017 Nintendo Switch using this same time table would be using Kepler. So we should count ourselves lucky to have Maxwell. Of course I'd vastly prefer Pascal - who wouldn't?

 

[antihelten]

iam sorry but you really thought this will be ingame? it looks like a tech demo this is never ingame graphics

Unless you believe the developer is lying, that trailer was in fact in-game.

 

[Hitman928]

In game can actually mean a few things. It looks great but I'll wait for the actual game, for sure running on actual switch hardware before being impressed.

 

[SPBHM]

Nintendo's November 2012 WiiU used essentially a 40nm Radeon 4000 series. The first 40nm Radeon 4000 released was April 2009.

A March 2017 Nintendo Switch using this same time table would be using Kepler. So we should count ourselves lucky to have Maxwell. Of course I'd vastly prefer Pascal - who wouldn't?

the Wii U is not on the same process as the old Radeons, so I think it's fair to say it's based on the 2008 architecture (which is not vastly different than the 2007 stuff) but with some modifications perhaps, also on 64bit DDR3 (even the Xbox 360 from 2005 had higher memory bandwidth)

if the Switch is nothing more than a Tegra X1, I would be worried about performance just 256 Cuda Cores and 64bit memory would make it clearly a lot slower than an Xbox 1 (still, a lot nicer than the Wii U), even if it's Maxwell, hopefully it's a lot better than Tegra X1.

Maxwell is fine, the Tegra X1 one is not, I mean for a console, for a full portable sounds good.

 

[crisium]

If it is a Maxwell Tegra, is it realistic to see a switch to a Pascal Tegra in a revision? I'm not even envisioning a PS4 Pro equivalent, but just sort of like a die shrink (360 had several of these) to get better portable battery life at the same performance.

But I'm still hoping for Pascal, even if Maxwell is relatively more modern than the WiiU used.

Would Nvidia really say "the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards." and mean Maxwell when Pascal had been out for months? Is it said with the same straight face as when holding up the wood screws?

There's no "aha! gotchya!" by saying the Titan XP is the "Nvidia Titan X" and not a "GeForce" because clearly the GTX 1080 is faster than any Maxwell ever. But I'll never underestimate PR/spin... well, the GTX Titan X and 980 Ti are still among the "top performing cards". Vulkan logic "it's an exaggeration, not a lie".

 

[antihelten]

the Wii U is not on the same process as the old Radeons, so I think it's fair to say it's based on the 2008 architecture (which is not vastly different than the 2007 stuff) but with some modifications perhaps, also on 64bit DDR3 (even the Xbox 360 from 2005 had higher memory bandwidth)

if the Switch is nothing more than a Tegra X1, I would be worried about performance just 256 Cuda Cores and 64bit memory would make it clearly a lot slower than an Xbox 1 (still, a lot nicer than the Wii U), even if it's Maxwell, hopefully it's a lot better than Tegra X1.

Maxwell is fine, the Tegra X1 one is not, I mean for a console, for a full portable sounds good.

If the venturebeat article is to be believed, then the reason Nintendo went with Maxwell is one of timing (Tegra X2 not being ready). If this is indeed the case then it doesn't really make sense for Nvidia to have made anything significantly different from Tegra X1, since such a design would probably have been just as late as Tegra X2.

 

[happy medium]

At least they have room to upgrade the Switch if its successful. The Xbox and PS4 did it.

Switch 2 with a custom Denver pascal would be good for backwards compatibility

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

If it is a Maxwell Tegra, is it realistic to see a switch to a Pascal Tegra in a revision? I'm not even envisioning a PS4 Pro equivalent, but just sort of like a die shrink (360 had several of these) to get better portable battery life at the same performance.

API design will be the determining factor for that ...

 

[tviceman]

If it's Maxwell then it will be a big disappointment from my point of view. It should be a Pascal based SoC without Denver cores. Tegra X1 with Pascal instead of Maxwell cores, manufactured on 16nm FF+ with faster DRAM than X1. Anything less than this will be a huge bummer.

 

[happy medium]

If it's Maxwell then it will be a big disappointment from my point of view. It should be a Pascal based SoC without Denver cores. Tegra X1 with Pascal instead of Maxwell cores, manufactured on 16nm FF+ with faster DRAM than X1. Anything less than this will be a huge bummer.

What the difference ? Tegra Maxwell 20nm vs Tegra Pascal 16nm.
Does anyone really know? I bet the clockspeeds for the CUSTOM Tegra Switch chip are much higher than whats in the shield.
Its a portable device! It will perform very close to a Xbox one.

 

[dogen1]

What the difference ? Tegra Maxwell 20nm vs Tegra Pascal 16nm.
Does anyone really know? I bet the clockspeeds for the CUSTOM Tegra Switch chip are much higher than whats in the shield.
Its a portable device! It will perform very close to a Xbox one.

Well, pascal would be a lot more powerful at the same power consumption. For a mobile device it could make a very big difference. If it is maxwell based hopefully it'll at least have a more efficient CPU this time.