[NintendoLife]AMD in new Nintendo console?

[Despoiler]

DUDE go read the freaking articles. Just because you haven't read that the earth is round, doesn't mean its flat!

Whatever the technical issue is it means we won't be seeing 8GB HMB until 2017 for consumption!

Whether its because its more complex, whether its because of the implementation, whether its the stability, whatever, there is a limit and current HBM1 is limited to 4GB, get over it. The earth is not flat, just because you haven't read that its round, doesn't mean its flat!

No. It isn't. You're 100% wrong.

There is a 4 GiB PER STACK limit.

Unless you can point me to a source which says: "You can't use more than 4 Stacks" you're wrong.

Someone could make an ASIC with 6 stacks, 8, 12, however many they could fit on an interposer.

Whether they do or not is dependent on economics. Whether it's technically possible is what I'm talking about. And in that regard, there is absolutely no indication I've yet seen that it can't be done.

Headfoot is 100% correct. Go download the JEDEC 235 spec. There is no limitation on how many stacks you can put on to the interposer.

Registration is free.

http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/results/jesd235

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Launching in 2016, should have more powerful hardware than PS4, esp if its 14nm ff.

And yes, I do have a Wii, its a gimmick. I'm not buying an NX if it end up with weaker specs.

I own both a Wii and a Wii U..... I do enjoy them for what they are..... Yes, both of them are definitely gimmicks. The gimmick of motion control was sales gold for the Wii. But the Wii U touchscreen just flat bombed.

 

[swilli89]

I own both a Wii and a Wii U..... I do enjoy them for what they are..... Yes, both of them are definitely gimmicks. The gimmick of motion control was sales gold for the Wii. But the Wii U touchscreen just flat bombed.

I think you and other people are misusing the word "gimmick". I believe a better word to use in its stead is "novelty". Wii was an extremely novel idea but it worked well.

I would say that yes, the Wii U controller-screen was a bit gimmicky, but I really saw its value one day when I went to a friends house. Some of his younger cousins were there that he was forced to entertain. They have a 1 TV household and after a while us adults were ready to watch some good ole HBO, with the Wii u it wasn't a problem as they could continue playing Mario Kart on the handheld screen while we watched TV.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I wouldn't be surprised either way if Nintendo went with HBM or GDDR5. If the only consideration was performance, then I'd say HBM is unlikely. However, form factor is pretty important to Nintendo and HBM would give them more flexibility in that area as well.

Isn't the NX due next year? HBM2 won't be ready in time, leaving HBM1....will yields be good enough?

 

[Madpacket]

The Wii-U is not a gimmick. It's actually a great console. People just misunderstood the console due to the poor marketing Nintendo launched it with. It arguably has the best games out right now but is ignored by the masses due poor perception of it.

I have both a PS4 and Wii-U, guess which one get's used a lot more?

If you have a high end PC and and Wii-U you pretty much have 95% of all good games covered. There very few exclusives for the PS4 and XBOX One (at this point in their life cycles anyway).

I would say that yes, the Wii U controller-screen was a bit gimmicky, but I really saw its value one day when I went to a friends house. Some of his younger cousins were there that he was forced to entertain. They have a 1 TV household and after a while us adults were ready to watch some good ole HBO, with the Wii u it wasn't a problem as they could continue playing Mario Kart on the handheld screen while we watched TV.

This can't be overstated. My daughter is always watching youtube videos (toy unwrapping videos, WTF is with kids and these videos lol) on the Wii - U gamepad while I enjoy playing steam games from the couch or watching UFC etc. Many games on the Wii-U don't require a television at all. You just need to be within range of the unit (30 feet or so in my case).

Anyways, this is off topic but please don't call the Wii-U a gimmick. Wii-U Donkey Kong, Mario Kart and the exclusive Bayonetta 2 are amazing games and worth buying the console for alone.

 

[swilli89]

The Wii-U is not a gimmick. It's actually a great console. People just misunderstood the console due to the poor marketing Nintendo launched it with. It arguably has the best games out right now but is ignored by the masses due poor perception of it.

I have both a PS4 and Wii-U, guess which one get's used a lot more?

If you have a high end PC and and Wii-U you pretty much have 95% of all good games covered. There very few exclusives for the PS4 and XBOX One (at this point in their life cycles anyway).




This can't be overstated. My daughter is always watching youtube videos (toy unwrapping videos, WTF is with kids and these videos lol) on the Wii - U gamepad while I enjoy playing steam games from the couch or watching UFC etc. Many games on the Wii-U don't require a television at all. You just need to be within range of the unit (30 feet or so in my case).

Anyways, this is off topic but please don't call the Wii-U a gimmick. Wii-U Donkey Kong, Mario Kart and the exclusive Bayonetta 2 are amazing games and worth buying the console for alone.

Take it easy my friend. No one called the wii u a gimmick. I simply said the controller itself is a bit gimmicky in the fact that it added a large amount of cost to the console when it's not always used as anything but a simple controller.

 

[monstercameron]

The Wii-U is not a gimmick. It's actually a great console. People just misunderstood the console due to the poor marketing Nintendo launched it with. It arguably has the best games out right now but is ignored by the masses due poor perception of it.

I have both a PS4 and Wii-U, guess which one get's used a lot more?

If you have a high end PC and and Wii-U you pretty much have 95% of all good games covered. There very few exclusives for the PS4 and XBOX One (at this point in their life cycles anyway).




This can't be overstated. My daughter is always watching youtube videos (toy unwrapping videos, WTF is with kids and these videos lol) on the Wii - U gamepad while I enjoy playing steam games from the couch or watching UFC etc. Many games on the Wii-U don't require a television at all. You just need to be within range of the unit (30 feet or so in my case).

Anyways, this is off topic but please don't call the Wii-U a gimmick. Wii-U Donkey Kong, Mario Kart and the exclusive Bayonetta 2 are amazing games and worth buying the console for alone.

If by best games you mean Nintendo first party games then no thank you.
As an aside I went to GameStop to pick up a 3ds and I ended up returning it...lets just say super Mario 3d world is kinda boring...*runs for cover* point is I'm tired of f@#king Mario.

 

[RampantAndroid]

If by best games you mean Nintendo first party games then no thank you.
As an aside I went to GameStop to pick up a 3ds and I ended up returning it...lets just say super Mario 3d world is kinda boring...*runs for cover* point is I'm tired of f@#king Mario.

I'm with you on this - I'm honestly a bit surprised people keep buying the same stuff over and over. Mario doesn't hold my interest anymore, and hasn't for a long time.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I'm with you on this - I'm honestly a bit surprised people keep buying the same stuff over and over.

I have bought Final Fantasy 4 (the USA FF2):

On the SNES
On the GBA
On the DS
On iOS
On Steam

AND I have bought its sequel (The After Years) TWICE without blinking.

Why? Because I can't get a decent JRPG experience in modern games.

That is how Mario is with platformers. Some genres that used to dominate the industry are niches now.

 

[JDG1980]

I think the NX hardware is going to be pretty straightforward and simple. Best guess? 2M/4C Excavator cores with 1024 GCN 1.2 shaders and 8GB of shared GDDR5. Basically Carrizo except with double the graphics, a better memory interface, and higher allowable TDP.

On the CPU side, while it's possible that Nintendo might choose to go for ARM (or cat cores like the other consoles), Excavator would provide very solid performance by console standards at a low die size. Better single-thread performance compared to PS4 and XB1 would simplify game development.

Regarding the memory interface, Nintendo wants to keep the bill of materials low, and doesn't care about absolute cutting-edge performance. Therefore, we can rule out HBM right off the bat. That won't become mainstream until 2017, at least. On the other hand, I don't think we are going to see them cut corners to the extent of using DDR3/DDR4 with an ESRAM cache. Keep in mind that the ESRAM cache takes up die space, which is much more precious than PCB real estate. The Xbox One APU has only 14 CUs on die (12 enabled), while the Playstation 4 APU has 20 CUs on die (18 enabled). Despite that, the XB1 APU is bigger (363 mm^2 versus 348 mm^2). And the XB1 has far worse performance, and is much more difficult to develop for. Development ease is one of the things Nintendo wants to fix, and an ESRAM cache would be moving in the wrong direction here. GDDR5 is cheap enough that just using it as shared RAM would be a much better choice. I am confident that if Microsoft had it to do over again, they would have chosen the same path as Sony in this regard.

As for the process node, it will probably be 28nm. At this time, FinFET is more expensive to design, and more expensive to manufacture on a per-transistor basis. Unlike the pessimists on this board, I do think these things will eventually change, but again we're looking at 2017 and beyond. For a 2016 product that is cost-optimized and doesn't need to worry about battery life, 28nm is the obvious choice.

 

[DustinBrowder]

No. It isn't. You're 100% wrong.

There is a 4 GiB PER STACK limit.

Unless you can point me to a source which says: "You can't use more than 4 Stacks" you're wrong.

Someone could make an ASIC with 6 stacks, 8, 12, however many they could fit on an interposer.

Whether they do or not is dependent on economics. Whether it's technically possible is what I'm talking about. And in that regard, there is absolutely no indication I've yet seen that it can't be done.

Dude, there is 4GB limit right now. Theoretically it could have 50GB, theoretically it could have 100GB.

Practically for all intense and purposes its limited to 4GB until 2017. Again whether the issue is complexity, implementation, stability, power, whatever, isn't important, what is important is they can't have 8GB HBM as of right now.

Sure there are probably already 8GB HBM in labs being developed, but in terms of consumption we are limited to 4GB. Since you said Nintendo can use HBM with 8GB or 12GB memory I corrected you that right now its not possible to do it more than 4GB and they would have to wait at least until 2017 to start implementing such design!

Headfoot is 100% correct. Go download the JEDEC 235 spec. There is no limitation on how many stacks you can put on to the interposer.

Registration is free.

http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/results/jesd235

You need to read my replies from start! Its possible to have 64 cores processors, theoretically its possible to have 50GB HBM or other memory, we are not talking what is theoretically possible!

He said that Nintendo should put 6 to 8 cores at 2.5ghz, 8GB or 12GB HBM, etc... I corrected him that that isn't possible. For practical reasons 8GB HBM is not yet possible. Theoretically again you can have 50GB, we can have processors that are 64 cores, theoretically we can have everything, but its not reality!

Realistically whether its complexity, implementation, stability, power, consumption, cost, etc... its not possible!

Do you really think AMD wouldn't put 8GB HBM if it was practically possible?

HBM1 is limited to 4GB, HBM2 can have more than 4GB memory. Again theoretically its possible, but practically its not right now regardless of the reasons!

 

[raghu78]

I think the NX hardware is going to be pretty straightforward and simple. Best guess? 2M/4C Excavator cores with 1024 GCN 1.2 shaders and 8GB of shared GDDR5. Basically Carrizo except with double the graphics, a better memory interface, and higher allowable TDP.

On the CPU side, while it's possible that Nintendo might choose to go for ARM (or cat cores like the other consoles), Excavator would provide very solid performance by console standards at a low die size. Better single-thread performance compared to PS4 and XB1 would simplify game development.

Regarding the memory interface, Nintendo wants to keep the bill of materials low, and doesn't care about absolute cutting-edge performance. Therefore, we can rule out HBM right off the bat. That won't become mainstream until 2017, at least. On the other hand, I don't think we are going to see them cut corners to the extent of using DDR3/DDR4 with an ESRAM cache. Keep in mind that the ESRAM cache takes up die space, which is much more precious than PCB real estate. The Xbox One APU has only 14 CUs on die (12 enabled), while the Playstation 4 APU has 20 CUs on die (18 enabled). Despite that, the XB1 APU is bigger (363 mm^2 versus 348 mm^2). And the XB1 has far worse performance, and is much more difficult to develop for. Development ease is one of the things Nintendo wants to fix, and an ESRAM cache would be moving in the wrong direction here. GDDR5 is cheap enough that just using it as shared RAM would be a much better choice. I am confident that if Microsoft had it to do over again, they would have chosen the same path as Sony in this regard.

As for the process node, it will probably be 28nm. At this time, FinFET is more expensive to design, and more expensive to manufacture on a per-transistor basis. Unlike the pessimists on this board, I do think these things will eventually change, but again we're looking at 2017 and beyond. For a 2016 product that is cost-optimized and doesn't need to worry about battery life, 28nm is the obvious choice.

Bulldozer or any other derivative like Excavator will never make it to any semi-custom product. The perf/watt, perf/sqmm is really bad compared to Jaguar and its derivatives like the Puma.

So for Nintendo NX its easy to see a slightly higher clocked 8 core Puma with improved GCN 1.2 architecture and 1280-1536 stream processors and 8 GB GDDR5. Due to better 28nm process maturity we will see higher CPU clocks and a slightly faster GPU than PS4. Die size should still be around 350 sq mm. 16/14nm FINFET will not be possible due to high cost, low yields especially and more importantly wafer allocation shortage / issues.

 

[Snafuh]

AMD expects a lifetime revenue of one billion dollars. It's either a low volume chip or a very small chip. If the announced semi-custom win is Nintendo NX it's obviously a mobile chip. A Xbox/PS like chip costs 50$+ and I bet Nintendo wants to sell more than 20 million consoles.
Mobile and stationary will probably be on the same architecture but scaled up. So I doubt a 2017 home console will be stronger than the PS4 and that's fine. Nintendo doesn't need ports of major games.

 

[DustinBrowder]

Ultimate Nintendo can go the ARM route and basically try and bring in smaller publishers to publish on their platform!

But that means that they pretty much end all relationship with 3rd party console/pc developers and rely on their own games and small mobile developers!

 

[Snafuh]

Why do you think 3rd party devs won't develop for ARM? They made games for the Wii (Power) and there are plenty 3rd party DS games (ARM). The WiiU is abandoned because of the bad sale figures, not because of hardware. The Wii was underpowered compared to ps360, too. Yet many (Japanese) devs made exclusive games for it because there were tens of millions consoles in living rooms of consumers.
If there is a market devs will make games despite the hardware architecture or performance.

 

[Pwndenburg]

I just don't get nintendo, but I do love some of their exclusives. Fewer than many folks. Space heater or not, it would seem to me with these joke offerings from the other two major players they could risk a little higher spec and get third party back on board. But, yea, that's just not Nintendo.

 

[Sabrewings]

Do you really think AMD wouldn't put 8GB HBM if it was practically possible?

If it were based on a 16nm SoC setup with unified memory, it would make sense and be technically feasible to offer eight stacks as the SoC would offer more real estate for memory landings than the huge Fiji die.

Although, I'm not entirely convinced it's a space issue. If you look at photos it looks feasible to squeeze another pair of HBM stacks on the interposer. I suspect it could be a logistical issue with the traces on the interposer while trying to keep interposer costs down. They're using 65nm for the interposer, if memory serves. Each stack requires (in Fiji's implementation) 1024 traces for data as well as a few for overhead signalling. They could lower this requirement by going to once channel per die and effectively have more room to play with.

So, from an area perspective I don't see why more than four stacks wouldn't be possible with a smaller SoC style chip minus integral memory. They could also solve the trace density issue by reducing the channels used (and halving the bandwidth per stack, but it could be a worthwhile trade off.

This picture (from WCCFtech, admittedly) seems to indicate it's a trace density issue as the connection routing takes up the extra interposer space. If you reduce your traces, you could fit at least another pair (one on each side) for 6GB total memory with HBM1 technology next to a Fiji GPU. It seems to me AMD wasn't willing to make the bandwidth trade off, but Nintendo might be.

 

[swilli89]

We do this every generation not just for Nintendo but all of the big 3. We look at what's out there in PC tech and we talk about what's feasible. Thing is though, we get disappointed every. Single. Time.

There will be no HBM, and Nintendo would be wise to just use a refined cat core in an 8 core configuration and as many sp's as the dollar and power budget allows.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

I think you and other people are misusing the word "gimmick". I believe a better word to use in its stead is "novelty". Wii was an extremely novel idea but it worked well.

I think even that is a stretch. I don't think even the Wii worked particularly well -- an insanely high percentage of its library is unplayable shovelware because even the original Wii's motion control was difficult to properly develop. While the Xbox 360 and PS3 continue to sell games / software in retail..... Both the Wii and Wii U have totally collapsed in sales and sit collecting dust in the few store that carry their respective software.

Gimmick is a great word for both systems, or fad if you prefer.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

I think even that is a stretch. I don't think even the Wii worked particularly well -- an insanely high percentage of its library is unplayable shovelware because even the original Wii's motion control was difficult to properly develop. While the Xbox 360 and PS3 continue to sell games / software in retail..... Both the Wii and Wii U have totally collapsed in sales and sit collecting dust in the few store that carry their respective software.

Wii has now completely collapsed, but while it lasted, Nintendo made very well out of it. IIRC Nintendo recouped all their R&D expenses by the third month, and made solid profits after that. In contrast, the "major" consoles took years upon years to make good their R&D and the initial subsidy of console prices.

 

[Headfoot]

snip

So you finally admitted that we're right that it's theoretically possible, which is literally the only point we were making, because we agree that in all likelihood it wont happen in practicality.

Nobody has ever denied its unlikely dude. Nobody has been saying its practical.

But TECHNICAL POSSIBILITY and PRACTICAL REALITY are distinct and you can't act like because its not practical, its not possible. Saying it's not technically possible is verifiably wrong and it needs to stop being repeated. That's all we've ever been getting at here.

 

[RussianSensation]

So you finally admitted that we're right that it's theoretically possible, which is literally the only point we were making, because we agree that in all likelihood it wont happen in practicality.

Nobody has ever denied its unlikely dude. Nobody has been saying its practical.

But TECHNICAL POSSIBILITY and PRACTICAL REALITY are distinct and you can't act like because its not practical, its not possible. Saying it's not technically possible is verifiably wrong and it needs to stop being repeated. That's all we've ever been getting at here.

Ya but in the context of this thread, his point of view is far more relevant than yours. It doesn't matter if it's theoretically possible for a human to fly to Mars next year but if it's not planned for another 10 years, arguing theories is akin to making a point in a vacuum without understanding the economic or engineering viability. If you want to argue what's theoretically possible for the sake of arguing, that's fine but it's not relevant unless it's practical in its application to the NX.

In the context of reality for Nintendo's 2016 console (assuming it launches in 2016), HBM for the NX is highly unlikely and actually would hurt the console more than a traditional GDDR5 setup. Reduction in PCB size is basically a useless 'feature' for consoles. If it was useful, Wii U would have outsold both of XB1 and PS4. In this case, HBM would just add costs and reduce yields with no particular advantage to speak of because most modern consoles are not memory bandwidth constrained on the GPU side with traditional GDDR5. In real terms, GDDR5 got GPUs as far as R9 295X2 and GTX980TI which means in no way shape or form would GDDR5 bottleneck NX.

Also, it seems so many people in this thread ignored this critical point I made:

Even if NX is 50%, 2X faster than PS4, it really doesn't matter because 3rd party developers will not suddenly allocate most of their resources to NX's small/unproven to buy 3rd party titles userbase when it comes to making next generation graphics at the sacrifice of XB1/PS4 games. We already see this happening on the PC space where 99% of AAA PC games are straight up console ports with just better textures and GW features thrown in. The main benefits for PC gaming is that we can have > 30 fps and > 1080P resolution + input options. If developers are hardly taking advantage of PC hardware which is miles faster than PS4's, what are the chances they would care to take advantage of NX even if NX was 50%, 100%, 150% faster? It would just be a repeat of Dreamcast failure.

Furthermore, Nintendo isn't going to throw millions to secure early COD DLC or 3rd party games like Rise of the Tomb Raider. That means the extra horsepower of NX won't be taken advantage of by almost anyone except for Nintendo and Nintendo can only make so many games in 5 years.

Therefore, in the overall context of Nintendo's next gen console strategy, Nintendo will fail miserably if they make a console way more powerful than PS4 and sell it for $449-499 because by that time XB1 will be $299 and PS4 likely $349 and both will have a huge install userbase and a large library of new and used games. I highly doubt that they'll be able to make a 1TB console for $349 that's tangibly more powerful than XB1/PS4 either. 30-50% more powerful than PS4 alone won't get them too many sales either since without strong online gaming community and 3rd party titles, it's just theoretical performance advantage.

Imo, Nintendo's best bet is either to try to innovate with something unique or make a traditional affordable console that's just enough to keep up with XB1 to last them until 2020-2021. At that point technology will have become a lot cheaper and faster and they would be able to introduce a console that's truly 5-6X more powerful than PS4.

 

[Timorous]

Ya but in the context of this thread, his point of view is far more relevant than yours. It doesn't matter if it's theoretically possible for a human to fly to Mars next year but if it's not planned for another 10 years, arguing theories in this instance is just a waste of time and space. If you want to argue what's theoretical possible for the sake of arguing, that's fine but it's not relevant unless it's practical in its application to the NX.

In the context of reality for Nintendo's 2016 console (assuming it launches in 2016), HBM for the NX is highly unlikely and actually would hurt the console more than a traditional GDDR5 setup.

Also, it seems so many people in this thread ignored this critical point I made:

Even if NX is 50%, 2X faster than PS4, it really doesn't matter because 3rd party developers will not suddenly allocated most of their resources to its small userbase to make next generation graphics at the sacrifice of XB1/PS4 games. We already see this happening on the PC space where 99% of AAA PC games are straight up console ports with just better textures and GW features thrown in. The main benefits for PC gaming is we can have > 30 fps and > 1080P resolution + input options. If developers are hardly taking advantage of PC hardware which is miles faster than PS4, what are the chances they would care to take advantage of NX even if NX was 50%, 100%, 150% faster? It would just be a repeat of Dreamcast failure.

Therefore, in the overall context of console strategy, Nintendo will fail miserably if they make a console more powerful than PS4 and sell it for $399 because by that time XB1 will be $299 and PS4 likely $349 and both will have a huge install userbase and a large library of new and used games. Nintendo's best bet is either to try to innovate with something unique or make an affordable console that's just enough to keep up with XB1 to last them until 2020-2021 when they can introduce a console that's truly 5-6X more powerful than PS4.

PS4 is likely to be $299 this holiday, or perhaps $349 with a game bundle.

By holiday 2016 there is no reason at all why Nintendo cannot make a roughly PS4 level piece of hardware, sell it for around $249 and make a small profit on each unit sold, or break even.

If I was Nintendo I would be thinking 8 core x86 CPU based on the Puma core, 2TF GPU based on GCN 1.2, or perhaps 1.3 and 8GB of GDDR5. Launch it for $249 which should be very close to break even.

With specs like that it can get all the PS4/Xbox One ports as it is a PS4 clone with fractionally more powerful hardware so it won't lose out on 3rd party support and will obviously get the great 1st party stuff.

 

[Red Hawk]

If by best games you mean Nintendo first party games then no thank you.
As an aside I went to GameStop to pick up a 3ds and I ended up returning it...lets just say super Mario 3d world is kinda boring...*runs for cover* point is I'm tired of f@#king Mario.

I'm with you on this - I'm honestly a bit surprised people keep buying the same stuff over and over. Mario doesn't hold my interest anymore, and hasn't for a long time.

Did you actually bother to look at the games you can buy for current Nintendo systems? It goes way beyond just Mario.

On the 3DS, there's:

• Fire Emblem Awakening. One of the best strategy RPGs in recent memory.
• Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds. 2D style Zelda at its finest.
• Bravely Default. A return to the classic style of JRPGs by Square Enix.
• Resident Evil Revelation
• Monster Hunter 4.
• Super Smash Bros. On a handheld. It's just crazy when I think about it.
• Pokemon X & Y and OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire. Yes, Pokemon games are formulaic. That doesn't change the fact that it's still an incredibly addictive and fun formula.
• Kid Icarus Uprising
• Shin Megami Tensei IV
• Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon
• Animal Crossing: New Leaf
• Xenoblade Chronicles 3D
• Tomodachi Life
• Mario Kart 7
• And finally, yes, Super Mario 3D Land. It is a new game style for Mario, relatively -- the level layout and camera control makes for a different gameplay style than stuff like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Galaxy.

And of course, there's several remakes of classic Nintendo games, like Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, and StarFox 64. There's upcoming games, like Fire Emblem Fates.

On the Wii U, there's:

• Bayonetta 2. Some of the finest action gaming out there, courtesy of Platinum Games.
• Splatoon, an inventive take on the shooter genre (and a completely new IP from Nintendo)
• Super Smash Bros. I mean, it's Smash Bros. In what other game can you have Pac-Man gobble up Ryu from Street Fighter?
• Mario Kart 8
• Hyrule Warriors
• The Wonderful 101
• Pikmin 3
• Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
• ZombiU
• Again, Super Mario 3D World. And again, it's an inventive new approach to Mario, same gameplay style as 3D Land, but bigger and better, with a Super Mario Bros 3-style overworld and more playable characters.
• Also, New Super Mario Bros U.

There's remakes, like Legend of Zelda Windwaker HD, and there's some games to look forward to, like the upcoming new Zelda and Xenoblade Chronicles X.

When it comes to exclusive games, Nintendo is the best in town, over both Sony and Microsoft. There honestly isn't a single exclusive currently available on PS4 or Xbox One that isn't a remake that really interests me. Every other good game they have can be bought on PC. But I own a 3DS and play the heck out of it, and I want a Wii U, because they have games I can't get on PC. That's why I want the next Nintendo console to succeed -- I want it to be the perfect trifecta of having great exclusives, having third party support, and having great technical specs.

 

[Headfoot]

Ya but in the context of this thread, his point of view is far more relevant than yours.

If you read more than a few posts back you'd see I have a number of points of view specifically addressing practical reality. It is, in fact, quite possible that I can have an opinion on both theoretical and practical. And condescending walls of text aren't any more relevant than what I posted.