Nissan to sell multiple affordable self-driving cars by 2020

[Midwayman]

We're at level 2 SDC now with mercedes and infinity. Supercruise looks like level 2 as well. 2020 doesn't seem unreasonable for limited level 3 (highway navigation.)

 

[Kaido]

Audi scores first CA autonomous car permit:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/17/audi-california-autonomous-car-permit/

 

[Kaido]

Tesla just announced an updated Model S sedan with the most advanced self-driving technologies available yet. It's not autonomous, but they are calling the suite "Autopilot":

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/10/09/tesla-d-awd-model-s-new-autopilot-surprise/

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-auto-pilot-does-lane-changes-for-you-1644644652

Autopilot demo video via Slashgear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quu551ehc0

Per Road & Track:

Musk says "there’s an expectation of a driver in the loop" with the new autopilot tech, but we can expect a fully autonomous car in the next five or six years.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/yW/Tesla-Autopilot-sm.jpg

* Autopilot features have been in every production car manufactured in the last 2 weeks & will be available via software update in a few months
* Cannot be retrofitted into older models
* Long-range forward looking radar
* 12 sensors that see 16 feet in every direction
* Camera with image recognition that can read stuff like signs (ex. read the speed limit sign) & know where pedestrians are
* 360-degree long-range sonar
* Everything is integrated with the existing GPS, navigation, and real-time traffic features
* Musk called it an advanced active safety system
* Car can autopark
* On private property, car can drive up to you while you are waiting for it
* With the calendar, it can come & meet you on time
* Will do a lane change for you just by pressing the turn signal stalk
* Video above demonstrates car driving itself with user's hands off the steering wheel & feet off the gas/acceleration pedals

Wow!

 

[Midwayman]

That's really cool. Still what they are demoing isn't a huge advancement on what's out there. Just wonder how much Tesla will enable via software updates as time goes on. It seems like they've taken the stance of "put in the hardware, we'll figure out what we can add as time goes on."

 

[tweakmonkey]

Another video from the same Tesla self driving event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTDQGGigjc

Also here's their article on it showing some graphics:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/10/6955919/my-lap-of-terror-in-the-tesla-d

I read on reddit that some people notice the speed limit change isn't quick enough/natural and that the course being pre-determined means it could've been pre-programmed in. Still, Tesla's advertising that they'll deliver these cars and you can option a mid-December delivery car to have this.

 

[Kaido]

Another video from the same Tesla self driving event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTDQGGigjc

Also here's their article on it showing some graphics:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/10/6955919/my-lap-of-terror-in-the-tesla-d

I read on reddit that some people notice the speed limit change isn't quick enough/natural and that the course being pre-determined means it could've been pre-programmed in. Still, Tesla's advertising that they'll deliver these cars and you can option a mid-December delivery car to have this.

I'm curious about that, especially in regards to speeding. In the mornings around here, it's unsafe to drive at (or below) the speed limit that are say 55 or 65 when everyone is going at least 10 over & you have to merge into a ton of traffic at that speed. Will a car's autonomous driving systems speed for you in situations where your safety warrants it?

 

[dguy6789]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the D's automated systems cause traffic jams and accidents because it refuses to go above the posted speed limit or conversely when it lands the driver a speeding ticket for ignoring the speed limit sign to drive in a safe manner with the flow of traffic.

 

[Kaido]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the D's automated systems cause traffic jams and accidents because it refuses to go above the posted speed limit or conversely when it lands the driver a speeding ticket for ignoring the speed limit sign to drive in a safe manner with the flow of traffic.

Yeah, which is why I think they're pushing it as autopilot rather than autonomous - very little legal ground to go on right now.

 

[Midwayman]

I'm curious about that, especially in regards to speeding. In the mornings around here, it's unsafe to drive at (or below) the speed limit that are say 55 or 65 when everyone is going at least 10 over & you have to merge into a ton of traffic at that speed. Will a car's autonomous driving systems speed for you in situations where your safety warrants it?

From what I understand googles system will do some of this. Same thing at 4 ways stops. behaving perfectly legally means you never get to go.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

From what I understand googles system will do some of this. Same thing at 4 ways stops. behaving perfectly legally means you never get to go.

I'm sure if all four cars had it, they would communicate with each other and decide an order far quicker than any humans sitting at a 4 way stop would manage to all get through it. And if they don't all have it, just wait until the human drivers go because you cannot predict them. Though some kind of visual cue on the car to let the human drivers know certain cars are auto and will not go at the 4 way stop until they have proceeded would be helpful. So some rules would have to get bent or changed for this to work. But I'm sure some 70 year old dinosaur politicians will say, "no because it can't work without following the current set of rules".

Cruising on the highway is also simple. Play it safe by staying in the right lane and cruising a max of 10% above the speed limit when attempting to go the flow of traffic. I think it would actually become easier for human drivers because if had the visual cue of what cars were automatic, you could easily maneuver around them or merge because you can predict them. Would kind of suck for those in the automatic cars though!

And for those people who want to take fun in fucking with automatics that could cause some problem (as in severe brake checking, or swerving in front of them continuously, i.e. doing anything to try to make them mess up), make the penalties severe. It's an easy conviction when you've got the car recording what is happening around it.

 

[A5]

And for those people who want to take fun in fucking with automatics that could cause some problem (as in severe brake checking, or swerving in front of them continuously, i.e. doing anything to try to make them mess up), make the penalties severe. It's an easy conviction when you've got the car recording what is happening around it.

I'd think that behavior would be covered by existing reckless driving laws.

 

[Midwayman]

Well the 4 way stop is just one of many situations where legal and defacto standards don't line up.

I'm sure we'll have to develop laws for people who abuse automated cars. Easy enough to record anyone who make them avoid them and report the numbers in bulk. It you're a constant offender, you get tickets in the mail.

 

[SparkyJJO]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the D's automated systems cause traffic jams and accidents because it refuses to go above the posted speed limit or conversely when it lands the driver a speeding ticket for ignoring the speed limit sign to drive in a safe manner with the flow of traffic.

What? :|

If driving the posted legal speed limit "causes" an accident the fault is not of the person obeying the law but rather the person breaking the law. And I would hope the autopilot wouldn't break the law for you.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Seriously. I've never driven somewhere that had (for example) a 50 MPH speed limit, and driving that posted 50 was dangerous. Sure you might inconvenience a couple people that want to speed, but c'mon...

Also I think these cars will have some level of "I want to speed" programmed in. I'm not sure what the laws will be regarding this yet but there will be overrides and non-auto driving modes for many years still.

 

[Zorba]

Seriously. I've never driven somewhere that had (for example) a 50 MPH speed limit, and driving that posted 50 was dangerous. Sure you might inconvenience a couple people that want to speed, but c'mon...

Also I think these cars will have some level of "I want to speed" programmed in. I'm not sure what the laws will be regarding this yet but there will be overrides and non-auto driving modes for many years still.

I have driven in a few places were the posted speed limits were just stupid low and the flow over traffic was doing 20 to 25 over. If you are going 25 under the flow of traffic, it is dangerous. The loop around Indy comes to mind, with a speed limit of 55, and people typically drive 75. I don't like to speed that much, but at 70 I start getting worried about getting rear ended.

I have also been in basically bumper to bumper traffic in Dallas going 15 over the speed limit, not really a good time to be driving 15 under the flow of traffic.

 

[Zorba]

What? :|

If driving the posted legal speed limit "causes" an accident the fault is not of the person obeying the law but rather the person breaking the law. And I would hope the autopilot wouldn't break the law for you.

How about the city officials that created an artificially low speed limit in order to increase ticket revenue?

 

[cabri]

How about the city officials that created an artificially low speed limit in order to increase ticket revenue?

Many times the speed limit is based on max safe volume of traffic for the road during a set time frame.

A road that is jammed at 45 mph during rush hours may be traversed at 70 mph in off hours.

However, setting the speed limit at 70 will cause accidents by people attempting to do it (because it is posted)when the congestion will not safely allow such.

 

[smackababy]

I have driven in a few places were the posted speed limits were just stupid low and the flow over traffic was doing 20 to 25 over. If you are going 25 under the flow of traffic, it is dangerous. The loop around Indy comes to mind, with a speed limit of 55, and people typically drive 75. I don't like to speed that much, but at 70 I start getting worried about getting rear ended.

I have also been in basically bumper to bumper traffic in Dallas going 15 over the speed limit, not really a good time to be driving 15 under the flow of traffic.

Please, let me know exactly how you've come to the conclusion that the speed limit was "stupid low". I'd like to know what research you did besides "I prefer to drive like an idiot and this is what I think."

 

[OverVolt]

I love Nissan. So easy to fix.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh self-driving cars are a steaming pile of crap.

 

[dguy6789]

What? :|

If driving the posted legal speed limit "causes" an accident the fault is not of the person obeying the law but rather the person breaking the law. And I would hope the autopilot wouldn't break the law for you.

If you are merging onto a highway with a speed limit of 65mph but the flow of traffic is 75-80 and you just squeeze in and stay at 65 and force others to slam on the brakes because you aren't paying attention then that is your fault. It doesn't matter if it's the speed limit or some arbitrary number everyone is driving at, if you merge into a highway going too slow you're endangering yourself and others.

You can also get(and deserve) a ticket for traveling exactly the speed limit in the left lane which obstructs traffic.

Sticking to the speed limit at all times regardless of conditions = bad and unsafe driving.

 

[dguy6789]

Please, let me know exactly how you've come to the conclusion that the speed limit was "stupid low". I'd like to know what research you did besides "I prefer to drive like an idiot and this is what I think."

A lot of speed limits are set arbitrarily low on purpose to ensure a constant stream of revenue from speeding tickets. If it wasn't safe to drive at that speed then people would not drive at that speed. People don't buy radar detectors because they want to get into a car accident.

The German Autobahn has far, far less traffic accidents than American highways and their average travel speed is quite a good deal higher. People have no speed limit there and they do not drive too fast for them to control the car even though there is no sign with a meaningless number telling them not to go faster than.

Speeding in itself is not reckless driving. This is the hardest concept for a lot of people to grasp

Reckless driving is things like changing lanes without signaling, driving without being aware of what is around you, merging into traffic too slowly, randomly hitting the brakes even if there is nothing in front of you when going down a hill because you went 2mph over the speed limit, and general highly unpredictable behavior.

 

[smackababy]

A lot of speed limits are set arbitrarily low on purpose to ensure a constant stream of revenue from speeding tickets. If it wasn't safe to drive at that speed then people would not drive at that speed. People don't buy radar detectors because they want to get into a car accident.

So, you've got nothing but speculation which is nonsense.

The German Autobahn has far, far less traffic accidents than American highways and their average travel speed is quite a good deal higher. People have no speed limit there and they do not drive too fast for them to control the car even though there is no sign with a meaningless number telling them not to go faster than.

You are comparing roads designed for that, and every road in the US. Yeah...

Speeding in itself is not reckless driving. This is the hardest concept for a lot of people to grasp

Reckless driving is things like changing lanes without signaling, driving without being aware of what is around you, merging into traffic too slowly, randomly hitting the brakes even if there is nothing in front of you when going down a hill because you went 2mph over the speed limit, and general highly unpredictable behavior.

Speeding is reckless driving. I know you think you're an F1 class driver in your Mustang, but you're not and neither is everyone else. Especially, in urban areas (where traffic does all kinds of things). If you would argue speed limits on interstates, outside of urban areas are fairly arbitrary, I might agree, depending on the interstate itself. I-10 from like the Texas boarder to Tuscan could easily have a much higher speed limit than 75 and the amount of deaths wouldn't increase at any meaningful rate.

 

[Zorba]

Please, let me know exactly how you've come to the conclusion that the speed limit was "stupid low". I'd like to know what research you did besides "I prefer to drive like an idiot and this is what I think."

I've driven the loops around a lot of cities and none have been 55 all the way around, except Indy. Oh, and I know the guy that designed a lot of bridges on that loop, he drove 80 on it everyday.

Or in the city I grew up on where the speed limit would go from 55 to 40 to 50 to 35 to 45, when the road conditions never changed, with about the same number of driveways, etc. Funny the police were always sitting where the road went from 50 to 35 in the middle of a section for no reason.

I also remember when all the roads in Oklahoma we 55, then 65, now 70 and 75, guess what the changed on those roads when they increased the speed limits. Just the speed limit sign and well the roads are much busier now than 20 years ago. I've also driven on roads in Texas that used to be 65 and are now 80, no changes.

Also when pulling a trailer in OK or MO I can drive 70 or 75 same as car, but in IL I can only drive 55, 10 mph slower than traffic. It does nothing but cause traffic problems, reduce road capacity and increase ticket revenue.

Edit: To clarify, there are a lot of times lower speed limits are warranted. Roads are designed with a certain speed specification, which determined banks in turns, etc. You also have traffic considerations, driveways, visibility, etc. Which is why speed limits generally drop as you approach downtown (more traffic, usually more junctions, less room to put in nice banked turns). Some cities even have variable speed limits based on conditions.

I've never lived in Texas, but I've heard they have a law that says if a certain percentage of traffic on a road drives above the speed limit, it must be evaluated for an increase. I wish this approach was national.

 

[Zorba]

Many times the speed limit is based on max safe volume of traffic for the road during a set time frame.

A road that is jammed at 45 mph during rush hours may be traversed at 70 mph in off hours.

However, setting the speed limit at 70 will cause accidents by people attempting to do it (because it is posted)when the congestion will not safely allow such.

Yeah, I agree, which is why more cities should move to variable speed limits.

 

[sontakke]

A road that is jammed at 45 mph during rush hours may be traversed at 70 mph in off hours.

However, setting the speed limit at 70 will cause accidents by people attempting to do it (because it is posted)when the congestion will not safely allow such.

This is false as can be seen by empirical evidence. If the traffic and road needs to move at 75 mph to avoid clogged conditions, it will invariably lead to traffic jams if the actual speed on that road is dropped to 40 mph. This is seen everyday when you see any police activity during commuting hour traffic. There would be miles of traffic jam and the road clears up as soon as you pass the cop who has somebody pulled over. If the speed limit were to be actually observed by people, the traffic will not be able to move in most metro are during the commuting hours. This is obvious in NorthEast area and I believe it is true everywhere else too.