No 700 series till 2013 Q4 ? ;/

[blackened23]

Speaking as a Mac fan, this will delay the next generation of iMacs and 15" retina MacBook Pros. The Mac mini (assuming it keeps all integrated graphics) will most likely be quietly updated.

Why would it? The projected graphics performance of haswell should be good enough to go without a discrete mobile graphics chip.

I believe the iMac is done. The sales of it has been particularly bad - and apple has expressed doubt on whether a 2012 model would exist. They skirted around the question during 2012 financial announcements, but obviously they decided to go ahead with a 2012 model which has sold pretty abysmally. Mobile is destroying desktop right now so I highly doubt an imac all in one will be updated in 2013; desktops don't get shelf-space in any retail store any longer, and barely exist on websites such as amazon.com. I hate it to say it but desktops are done except for the high end enthusiast or corporate sector - and apple desktop/AIOs are a joke since they're all closed/locked up systems.

Also, screw apple. I like their mobile products but despise their legal tactics and closed/locked nature of all of their software/hardware - hopefully the tides will change where open systems gain momentum once again. Apple has had this same practice for 3 decades, even during the 90s when they teetered on bankruptcy. It really is too bad it didn't happen (Apple going under in the 90s, it almost happened); Hopefully open systems will put apple in their place once again. Intel should just drop them and allow apple to forge ahead with their plans of designing their own custom chip, which i'm sure would perform terribly in a windows or OSX environment.

 

[ShintaiDK]

We can probably thank AMD and the Mobile market for this.

Just Apple/Qualcomm/TSMC. Not sure why you want to put AMD in there.

 

[Wreckem]

Why would it? The projected graphics performance of haswell should be good enough to go without a discrete mobile graphics chip.

I believe the iMac is done. The sales of it has been particularly bad - and apple has expressed doubt on whether a 2012 model would exist. They skirted around the question during 2012 financial announcements, but obviously they decided to go ahead with a 2012 model which has sold pretty abysmally. Mobile is destroying desktop right now so I highly doubt an imac all in one will be updated in 2013; desktops don't get shelf-space in any retail store any longer, and barely exist on websites such as amazon.com. I hate it to say it but desktops are done except for the high end enthusiast or corporate sector - and apple desktop/AIOs are a joke since they're all closed/locked up systems.

Also, screw apple. I like their mobile products but despise their legal tactics and closed/locked nature of all of their software/hardware - hopefully the tides will change where open systems gain momentum once again. Apple has had this same practice for 3 decades, even during the 90s when they teetered on bankruptcy. It really is too bad it didn't happen (Apple going under in the 90s, it almost happened); Hopefully open systems will put apple in their place once again. Intel should just drop them and allow apple to forge ahead with their plans of designing their own custom chip, which i'm sure would perform terribly in a windows or OSX environment.

The 2012 iMacs sold poorly because of major supply issues and they launched late(Nov 30 and mid Dec).

There will be a 2013 iMac. There is also going to be a complete Mac Pro refresh this year.

 

[blackened23]

The 2012 iMacs sold poorly because of major supply issues and they launched late(Nov 30 and mid Dec).

There will be a 2013 iMac. There is also going to be a complete Mac Pro refresh this year.

Sales of the imac has decreased by double digits year over year for the past 2 years. Now this is a fact: Apple had considered discontinuing the imac in 2012, they were hesitant to do a refresh. See their financial reports.

Another fact: desktops don't sell well...sorry. When the 2012 imac has, once again, a 15-25% year over year decrease in sales again due to large macbook and ipad shipments, I think it will be discontinued. Furthermore, apple did consider not releasing an imac in 2012, although they obviously had a change of heart. As much as it pains me (since I enjoy desktops), there is no light at the end of the tunnel for desktops - it will only be used by power hungry enthusiasts andenterprise users.

 

[3DVagabond]

Considering AMD rebranded its entire HD7xxx line to HD8xxx I wouldnt be surprised.

Yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_300_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_100_Series

please stop trolling.

what are you upset about? you can't even buy these cards if you wanted to. they'd go into pre-built computers only. and those fools get what they deserve.

What does Nvidia have to do with the extent of AMDs rebranding? Right, nothing.

...and away we go!

 

[Ice_Dragon]

They are going to cancel the iMac after a redesign? Okay. :whiste:

 

[blackened23]

They are going to cancel the iMac after a redesign? Okay. :whiste:

You think it's completely out of the question apparently. Apple did discuss not creating a 2012 iMac because their sales have been dipping by nearly 20% every year, while macbooks, ipads and iphone sales have skyrocketed with growth.

Since Apple nearly decided to not release a 2012 model, I don't believe they will release a 2013 model. Mobile is destroying desktop in the general consumer market.

 

[Ice_Dragon]

You think it's completely out of the question apparently. Apple did discuss not creating a 2012 iMac because their sales have been dipping by nearly 20% every year, while macbooks, ipads and iphone sales have skyrocketed with growth.

Since Apple nearly decided to not release a 2012 model, I don't believe they will release a 2013 model. Mobile is destroying desktop in the general consumer market.

So how do you feel about the Mac mini? Is that going to be killed off too? Is it just going to get to the point of iPad, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro?

Also where did Apple discuss this? Source?

Anyway, I don't want to get too off-topic since that is more for the "All things Apple" forum, though nVidia will have better cards available that can only go into say the 27" iMac. I think by not allowing users to upgrade the RAM in the 21.5" they are putting a nail in its coffin. Can we agree halfway?

Whatever the successors are to the GTX 660M, GTX 675MX, and GTX 680MX they will go in the new 27" iMacs.

I don't see Apple being an all mobile company.

The Mac Pro though remains questionable.

Haswell's integrated graphics will not be good enough for the 15" rMBP although I sense Apple will want make one model like that anyway as they did in 2009 with the nVidia GeForce 9400M.

 

[Acanthus]

There are a lot of possible reasons, assuming this is accurate.

It could be financially driven. It costs a lot of money to develop new processors. 12mos., or less, isn't a lot of time to recoup the investment. Especially when the market is soft. Look at how long Intel manufactures a CPU model before it's EOL'd. GPU's don't have that luxury.

It could be the new cards simply aren't ready yet. nVidia rarely rushes their cards to market and I think AMD would rather stand pat with their current lineup against nVidia's as long as they can rather than release something that's 15%-20% slower than it's potential, like Tahiti was, for example.

It could be TSMC, as has been mentioned. Although if they just couldn't manufacture the chips and they were ready, I think AMD and/or nVidia would be complaining.

Apple using up all, or a lot of, the available 28nm wafers would also effect the current models availability. I don't think that's the issue.

TSMC could also be swamped with the CPU and GPU ramp up for Playstation and Xbox consoles as well? I'm sure that is going to be a massive amount of volume for them.

 

[3DVagabond]

TSMC could also be swamped with the CPU and GPU ramp up for Playstation and Xbox consoles as well? I'm sure that is going to be a massive amount of volume for them.

If that's the case we will see a shortage of whatever cards they're making. Whether it be next gen or the current gen. they would be supply constrained. The only variable that could make a new gen shorter supplied would be yields.

 

[chibimike]

Do note that for Nvidia Q4 Fiscal Year 2013 runs from Feb - April, so this may be just a matter of someone confusing FY with calender year.

 

[blackened23]

Do note that for Nvidia Q4 Fiscal Year 2013 runs from Feb - April, so this may be just a matter of someone confusing FY with calender year.

That's what I was thinking as well. I can't see these parts taking longer than May-June to be released, otherwise both companies would miss a large window of opportunity with Haswell being released in May.

Then there's obviously titan which is being (supposedly) released very soon.

 

[RussianSensation]

Whatever the successors are to the GTX 660M, GTX 675MX, and GTX 680MX they will go in the new 27" iMacs.

Actually as Anand mentioned in his podcasts Apple likes changing GPU makers every generation. Since last round was NV, there is a very high possibility the next round of Apple GPUs will be from AMD.

Titan ? no thnx ...i expected gTx 760 with 670 level performance or a bit better ... for 100$ cheaper ^_^

That's not worth waiting for anyway. GTX670 was a $399 card. For $299, you can often find GTX670s, although it appears their prices have crawled back up to $350-360 levels. Newegg had a PNY GTX670 for $300 not long ago. For $280 you can get an HD7950 and OC past GTX680/HD7970 Ghz speed. The longer AMD and NV take to refresh 28nm GPUs, the more it will make sense for many of us to skip that generation and go straight for 20nm in 2014. Looking at a list of 2013 PC games, most of them are console ports. That means minor DX11 effects, higher resolution textures, some tessellation, but nothing revolutionary. Once next gen consoles launch, we should see next gen games with much more demanding GPU graphics. That means we'd want GPUs 2-3x faster than GTX680 for those titles. In the context of 2014-2015 games, I have my doubts that GTX700 series will bring enough performance to make it last much longer than GTX600 cards. Fingers crossed that 20nm GPUs are still on schedule for 2014.

 

[AdamK47]

I wouldn't mind waiting for dual GK114 cards. I'm really liking the low heat, power, and noise from my two GTX 690s.

 

[brandon888]

I wouldn't mind waiting for dual GK114 cards. I'm really liking the low heat, power, and noise from my two GTX 690s.

sadly GTX 690 has only 2GB vram



seems like i have to buy GTX 670 .... 700 series are too far .... and then just jump to 800 series ....

 

[piesquared]

Will the next nv card to be released be full DX11_1 or will it still be missing DirectX features like Kepler? If so, why is nv always behind AMD on DirectX? Do they not work as closely/well with MS and game devs or are they just not able to get those features working? They were way behind on getting DX10 working for Vista and now they are behind on DX11 as well. I'm wondering if the reason is just defiance and/or if there is a fundamental management problem within nv. Any ideas??

 

[imaheadcase]

Honestly i don't care about video cards currently. Nothing out that is exciting that requires a new card.

I think more people, well at least me, are more interested in monitors now-a-days that push our cards.

 

[5150Joker]

I'm surprised there are still people that think desktops will continue to receive all the attention they did in previous years. Desktops are a dying breed and have been the least 3-4 years (or longer). Even I moved on long ago (I used to be very active here) and now own an Alienware M18x with 680M SLI. The M18x is as fast as a lot of enthusiast desktops but its also mobile. A lot of other people have switched over as well.

 

[SirPauly]

I don't think desktop discrete is a dying breed but more-so the growth potential may not be as impressive as SOC designs or mobile sectors.

 

[Elfear]

I'm surprised there are still people that think desktops will continue to receive all the attention they did in previous years. Desktops are a dying breed and have been the least 3-4 years (or longer). Even I moved on long ago (I used to be very active here) and now own an Alienware M18x with 680M SLI. The M18x is as fast as a lot of enthusiast desktops but its also mobile. A lot of other people have switched over as well.

Problem is you're stuck with a small monitor, merely adequate keyboard, slow CPU (when you consider the easy overclocking on a desktop), fewer storage device options, and mediocre speakers. You can use a docking station to get around some of those issues when you're at home but still an issue when you're out and about. I had a nice gaming laptop for awhile for business trips but I can't imagine using it as my day to day device.

 

[brandon888]

Laptop for gaming is ... idk ... strange ??? for me Laptop is only for work and needs cpu like I3 and 4 Gb ram with low end graphic card to play facebook games lol DD



if this rumor is true .... then maxwell in end of 2014 ? ;/

 

[chibimike]

I'm surprised there are still people that think desktops will continue to receive all the attention they did in previous years. Desktops are a dying breed and have been the least 3-4 years (or longer). Even I moved on long ago (I used to be very active here) and now own an Alienware M18x with 680M SLI. The M18x is as fast as a lot of enthusiast desktops but its also mobile. A lot of other people have switched over as well.

Desktop graphic cards will continue to receive the most attention from makers because they are high value/high markup products, that users can buy more frequently.

Mobile devices are not the same beast. To go to the newest mobile graphics, a user needs to buy a new laptop, transfer over all their data and games, clear off the old system and sell it. Whereas a desktop user just needs to pop in a new card.

 

[Tweak155]

Desktop graphic cards will continue to receive the most attention from makers because they are high value/high markup products, that users can buy more frequently.

Mobile devices are not the same beast. To go to the newest mobile graphics, a user needs to buy a new laptop, transfer over all their data and games, clear off the old system and sell it. Whereas a desktop user just needs to pop in a new card.

Additionally most consumers want the cheapest thing they can get, bypassing the high end mobile AND high end desktop parts. It would seem to be in their better interest to generate products for both segments.

However most laptops with a high end 680 or 7970 have interchangeable parts just like a desktop. I still think both will remain popular, as you just CANNOT get the same performance in a laptop that you can a desktop.

 

[5150Joker]

Problem is you're stuck with a small monitor, merely adequate keyboard, slow CPU (when you consider the easy overclocking on a desktop), fewer storage device options, and mediocre speakers. You can use a docking station to get around some of those issues when you're at home but still an issue when you're out and about. I had a nice gaming laptop for awhile for business trips but I can't imagine using it as my day to day device.

I'll correct you on a few things:

1. M18x specifically has a fully unlocked bios for overclocking. The XM CPUs are matching desktop CPU's in performance in many cases.
2. M18x-R2 can hold 3 HDDs
3. External speakers can be hooked up and the keyboard is as good as any external kb. Or if one desires, you can hook one up as well.
4. 18" display but can also hook up external displays (hdmi/display port/vga, take your pick).


That's why the desktop market is shrinking, there is very little need for them anymore. Best part of all this is I can pack up my notebook (and I do) and take it with me anywhere.

Here's a dry run I did of the new 3DMark: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8434

Desktop graphic cards will continue to receive the most attention from makers because they are high value/high markup products, that users can buy more frequently.

Mobile devices are not the same beast. To go to the newest mobile graphics, a user needs to buy a new laptop, transfer over all their data and games, clear off the old system and sell it. Whereas a desktop user just needs to pop in a new card.

This is only true of lower end notebooks. MSI/Alienware/Clevo employ MXM 3.0b standards with interchangeable graphics cards. For example, my M18x originally shipped with 6970M Crossfire which I upgraded to 580M SLI and now again to 680M SLI. On the CPU front, it shipped with a 2720qm processor and I since upgraded to a fully unlocked 2920XM.

Additionally most consumers want the cheapest thing they can get, bypassing the high end mobile AND high end desktop parts. It would seem to be in their better interest to generate products for both segments.

However most laptops with a high end 680 or 7970 have interchangeable parts just like a desktop. I still think both will remain popular, as you just CANNOT get the same performance in a laptop that you can a desktop.

True, a desktop will always outrun a notebook for a cheaper price but it can't be denied that gaming notebooks have come a long way and are eating into the desktop enthusiast share of the market.

 

[3DVagabond]

Will the next nv card to be released be full DX11_1 or will it still be missing DirectX features like Kepler? If so, why is nv always behind AMD on DirectX? Do they not work as closely/well with MS and game devs or are they just not able to get those features working? They were way behind on getting DX10 working for Vista and now they are behind on DX11 as well. I'm wondering if the reason is just defiance and/or if there is a fundamental management problem within nv. Any ideas??

I doubt that it's because the hardware just isn't capable. Although I suppose that's a possibility. More likely it's a performance issue. Either in absolute terms, or stability, that holds them back from implementing certain features.