No buzz about GTX 260?

[Magusigne]

Also keep in mind that you can factory overclock isn't any type of hardware mod or anything..you can easily buy a vanilla version and overclock it yourself

 

[bunnyfubbles]

If it would have been promoted as a $299 part from the beginning it'd probably be just about as popular as the 4870. Instead it was supposed to be $449 and then was $399, and it also wasn't really even available (at least in large numbers) before the 4870 could come and spoil the show. Even though it is now $299, the early pricing has undoubtedly left a sour taste.

And realistically the GTX 260's primary advantage over the 4870 is the amount of memory. Once 1GB models of the 4870 are available the 4870 really would become a better card through and through, but the 4870 could potentially lose its price advantage there unless there's a price drop to go along with such an offering. Some might mention Physx, but I don't really consider that a legit reason just as DX10.1 really isn't a legit reason in favor of AMD.

 

[Magusigne]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
If it would have been promoted as a $299 part from the beginning it'd probably be just about as popular as the 4870. Instead it was supposed to be $449 and then was $399, and it also wasn't really even available (at least in large numbers) before the 4870 could come and spoil the show. Even though it is now $299, the early pricing has undoubtedly left a sour taste.

And realistically the GTX 260's primary advantage over the 4870 is the amount of memory. Once 1GB models of the 4870 are available the 4870 really would become a better card through and through, but the 4870 could potentially lose its price advantage there unless there's a price drop to go along with such an offering. Some might mention Physx, but I don't really consider that a legit reason just as DX10.1 really isn't a legit reason in favor of AMD.

\thread

 

[SickBeast]

It's going to be hard for AMD to include 1gb of DDR5 on these cards while keeping costs down. I'm sure that stuff must cost twice as much as DDR3 does per gigabyte.

At the same time, the core of the GTX260 must cost NV alot more to produce than the 4870 core costs AMD.

With the 4870 available at $270, it makes it hard to reccomend the GTX260 at $300. The only thing it has going for it is the additional memory (which only helps it at 2560x1600 in current games).

 

[abubakarm]

Originally posted by: Rhino2
.... but the wider bus doesn't actually translate into higher memory bandwidth, so it's not a "pro", .....

this cant be true is it?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: abubakarm

Originally posted by: Rhino2
.... but the wider bus doesn't actually translate into higher memory bandwidth, so it's not a "pro", .....

this cant be true is it?

It's not. That statement is in error. The width of a memory bus is a direct factor of overall memory bandwidth.

 

[abubakarm]

So is there any article coming from anandtech related to some overclocking 9800gtx+ and benchmarking it ??

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: abubakarm

Originally posted by: Rhino2
.... but the wider bus doesn't actually translate into higher memory bandwidth, so it's not a "pro", .....

this cant be true is it?

It's not. That statement is in error. The width of a memory bus is a direct factor of overall memory bandwidth.

Ah, but the GDDR5 makes up for it on the HD 4870. This might be what he was going for.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: abubakarm

Originally posted by: Rhino2
.... but the wider bus doesn't actually translate into higher memory bandwidth, so it's not a "pro", .....

this cant be true is it?

It's not. That statement is in error. The width of a memory bus is a direct factor of overall memory bandwidth.

Ah, but the GDDR5 makes up for it on the HD 4870. This might be what he was going for.

Yep... They both have around 140 GB/s IRCC, plus, GDDR5 has quad rate, which means each 1 mhz OC on a 260 equals 2mhz OC on a 4870, theres no way the 260 can catch up in memory clocks because of that

The only advantage the GTX has is the 800 something mb, but as seen from the 4870 X2 reviews, unless you crank up the graphics to 2560, you wont notice it (and even then, the 4870 usually does its job)

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
It's going to be hard for AMD to include 1gb of DDR5 on these cards while keeping costs down. I'm sure that stuff must cost twice as much as DDR3 does per gigabyte.

At the same time, the core of the GTX260 must cost NV alot more to produce than the 4870 core costs AMD.

With the 4870 available at $270, it makes it hard to reccomend the GTX260 at $300. The only thing it has going for it is the additional memory (which only helps it at 2560x1600 in current games).

While GDDR5 may be a lot more expensive than GDDR3, the GTX 260 has higher cost for the chip itself (as you already mentioned), the additional memory (although this isn't as bad because it is cheaper as you mentioned), however one thing you did leave out is the 448bit memory interface that also increases the cost of the board...

I think if nVidia can cut the price of the GTX 260 to $299, AMD could easily do the same when a 1GB version of the 4870 hits despite GDDR5 restrictions (which will only get better with time as production increases alongside adoption of the new tech ). But as you said, such a card really isn't necessary for current gamers unless they're running a 30" LCD...and this is a very limited niche that is most likely already going to look into other options such as SLI / CF and other more expensive alternatives (GTX 280 / 4870X2...)

 

[Rhino2]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: abubakarm

Originally posted by: Rhino2
.... but the wider bus doesn't actually translate into higher memory bandwidth, so it's not a "pro", .....

this cant be true is it?

It's not. That statement is in error. The width of a memory bus is a direct factor of overall memory bandwidth.

Ah, but the GDDR5 makes up for it on the HD 4870. This might be what he was going for.

That is exactly what I meant, taking the statement alone out of context with the rest of the post, of course it doesn't make any sense. In comparison between the 260 and 4870 though, it makes perfect sense, as the 260's 448 bit bus doesn't net it any memory bandwidth over the 4870's 256 bit bus due to GDDR5 on the 4870.

 

[ATiFTW]

In reply to Powernick50s complaints over the heat issue of the 4870 . . . I really don't understand why people get concerned with a little heat from graphics cards, these things are more than capable of handling these heat levels, as long as you have good airflow through your case then you're good. Or you can just do as i did with my 3850 and download Rivatuner and bump up your fan speed from 25% to 40 or 50 . . . no more heat. Also about the board partners, i recently read an article about some Nvidia board partners moving over to ATi aswell including rumours about XFX doing so aswell. But really you cant say that ATi board partners dont have good board partners . . and make a desition based on that, i mean what about Asus, they really have a lot of support and actually i would recommend Asus above XFX anyway.

 

[Magusigne]

More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: abubakarm
So is there any article coming from anandtech related to some overclocking 9800gtx+ and benchmarking it ??

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3340

i would recommend Asus above XFX anyway

...but, I would take EVGA or BFG over either...

 

[ochadd]

Originally posted by: Powernick50
More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

If EVGA started making NV cards I probably would have went for the 4870. That step-up program makes me sleep better at night.

 

[geoffry]

Originally posted by: ochadd

Originally posted by: Powernick50
More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

If EVGA started making NV cards I probably would have went for the 4870. That step-up program makes me sleep better at night.

EVGA does make NV cards.

I think you mean ATI.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Originally posted by: ochadd

Originally posted by: Powernick50
More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

If EVGA started making ATI cards I probably would have went for the 4870. That step-up program makes me sleep better at night.

Fixed

 

[geoffry]

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt

Originally posted by: ochadd

Originally posted by: Powernick50
More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

If EVGA started making ATI cards I probably would have went for the 4870. That step-up program makes me sleep better at night.

Fixed

Perfect, Im almost positive thats what he meant too.

And I agree, NVDA has much better board makers, if an ATI maker came out with a step up program

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: ochadd

Originally posted by: Powernick50
More Heat=Less Overclocking/Less Life, all be it thats nothing to worry about but the 4870 does have an increased power consumption.

If the NV board partners went to making ATI, well..I'd be all over that. But Thats probably FUD though.

If EVGA started making ATI cards I probably would have went for the 4870. That step-up program makes me sleep better at night.

Fixed your statement to make more sense as i think this is what you were trying to say.

On a side note. With the GTX260 coming down in to the reasonable price range, I still think the 280 is over priced, It's now a decent deal for those people looking to upgrade to either a 4870 or GTX 260. Either are viable options. Also, as for the pro's and con's, there are some really bad bits of mis info in this thread.

4870 Pros against GTX260:
As a slight speed advantage in most games over the GTX260 at stock speeds.
Initial pricing started out lower and can easily be found in retail stores. (usually right next to the old price of a GTX260 still marked at $450)
Released initially in larger quantities.
DX10.1 available for it right now.
*Possible future implementation of HAVOK through drivers if AMD and Intel can get their acts together.
*Possible future implementation of Physx. Yes, Nvidia stated they are giving AMD Physx.
*XFire works for any mobo.

4870 Cons against GTX260:
Only Visiontek is the best reliable partner for ATI's cards. Only partner with a lifetime warranty. Rest of the Partners that sell ATI cards suck.
Initial release of these cards had bad BIOS that had broken PowerPlay (which underclocks the card according to the demands for the card at any given moment) This makes the intial cards produce more heat and draw more power while idle. MSI has released a BIOS fix and I am sure others will follow suit soon.
Initial Heatsink wasn't the best. It IS better than the 4850 series card, and already partners are declaring updates to the reference HS for the cards in the future. But for now, be prepared to either purchase a different cooling solution or change the fan settings in order to crank out a good OC and get lower temps on the card.




GTX260 Pros against 4870:
Currently has Physx working right now for it. ATI will get it soon, but who knows when that is.
Current cooling solution is far superior to ATI with no tweaks needed. This means you can OC the GTX260 to great speeds to start edging out a an initial released 4870 in FPS in more games.
Awesome partners produce NV cards such as eVGA, BFG, and XFX. Visiontek is the only compariable partner ATI has and it still doesn't give nearly all the perks the above mentioned NV partners do.
NVidia had and still somewhat has a ton of momentum of fan loyalty to their brand thanks to the superior 8xxx series cards compared to the equivalent ATI cards at the time. This does make NV right now the more recognized brand and as such, NV ends up being the most recommended brand by sales people in retail stores.
No BIOS loading of fan change tweaks needed to fix issues with the GTX260.

GTX260 Cons against the 4870:
No DX10.1
No HAVOK
Lack of availability.
Slower stock speeds and if both are OC'd the same, it is still slower.
When a customer does find one still on a shelf, chances are it is priced the original MSRP right now. $400+ is hard to swallow.
Not allowed to SLI with Intel chips although that is changing with Nehelam.




You can read either list and deduce the other one obviously. The only reason I listed Pro's and Cons for both was so I can get a more detailed explanation to certain points based on the perspective of that card.

since hitting the $300 price range for the GTX260, there is no longer a clear winner between the 4870 and the GTX260. Both have their merits and to some, the better warranties from the NV partners are a much better value than the minimal performance gain the 4870 has over it. For some it is the other way around. To me, these are the biggest two deciding factors when going either GTX260 or 4870. The other issues, like Physx, dx10.1, and power draw/heat issues are moot.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
I've been kind of surprised at the lack of GTX 260 SLI benchmarks. At $600 for two of them, this seems like it might be a good option for people with an SLI motherboard.

I wouldn't mind seeing some benchmarks now that it has dropped so much in price, but I highly doubt it would beat 4870CF or X2 which it would compete with at a similar price point. Looking over the 280 SLI results shows some really poor scaling except for a few titles, like Crysis. Sometimes SLI performs even worst than a single card with slower CPUs. And the third SLI card scales even worst....Guru3D had to use a 4.2GHz C2, probably just to see any scaling at all over 2 cards. I think ATI has the better multi-GPU solution right now because of this, as it shows better scaling even with slower CPUs and at lower resolutions. I'm looking more into this though.....I've also noticed ATI CF breaking frame caps in games I know are capped normally......

Guru3D GTX 280 3-way SLI

Few things to keep in mind here. Single and 2-card SLI are on a 2.93GHz C2Duo. Tri-SLI is done on a 4.2GHz C2Quad. When you see how little that third card scales with a much faster C2Q, it really makes you wonder if you'd see any difference at all with a slower CPU.

 

[dakels]

The R700 review show results of a GT 280 SLI against the R700. It's not very impressive. Most tests show the R700 ($500) beating the $1000 GTX 280 SLI.

 

[abubakarm]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: abubakarm
So is there any article coming from anandtech related to some overclocking 9800gtx+ and benchmarking it ??

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3340

I have read that article before, but i was saying that some new article which is focused on overclocking 9800gtx+ and benchmarking against other cards, since a lot of people here have been talking about the possibilities of how insanely 9800gtx+ can be overclocked (more than 900mhz ??).

 

[ochadd]

Originally posted by: dds14u
Perhaps you could do a review of your own to help us all out. :-D

Installed Pic

It's massive.

It was much larger than I expected. Had to remove a fan to make it fit.

Here was the same setup with the 3870:

3870 installed

Pulling 30 FPS in Crysis @ 1920x1200, everything on high, 4xAA. This was at 666 on the core running and gunning.

 

[Magusigne]

Ochadd..roflkopter's...looks almost exactly like my rig.

I got the XFX Vanilla 260GTX and its huge...Instantly overclocked to 690mhz no problem..load temps around 65C

 

[dakels]

Originally posted by: ochadd

Originally posted by: dds14u
Perhaps you could do a review of your own to help us all out. :-D

Installed Pic

It's massive.

It was much larger than I expected. Had to remove a fan to make it fit.

Here was the same setup with the 3870:

3870 installed

Pulling 30 FPS in Crysis @ 1920x1200, everything on high, 4xAA. This was at 666 on the core running and gunning.

lol... when are we just gonna put car radiators in our computer and build around the gfx card...