No fiber to the home ? We will build our own then !

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Communities ask Embarq and TWC to upgrade service in their area and they are turned down. So they get together and decide to put in the service themselves. Great , everyone gets cheap access. So Time Warner does what any monopoly does, tries to put them in their place, below the thumb of the company.

So what is the problem ?
Cable companies supposedly can't afford upgrades and since they can't, then nobody is allowed to improve their own service !

http://www.dslreports.com/show...y-Broadband-Ban-102024

The city of Wilson, North Carolina launched a $28 million municipal broadband operation named Greenlight last year, offering symmetrical speeds up to 100Mbps -- far surpassing the best local incumbents Embarq and Time Warner Cable have to offer. Embarq and Time Warner Cable did what any carrier in a government-protected duopoly would do: they began a several year campaign to lobby state legislators to not only pass laws that would effectively cripple or ban such operations, but also prohibit this community from getting access to broadband stimulus funds. In response, local city officials have launched a new website and FAQ arguing against the bills. This IndyWeek report on the Wilson network is a must read, and notes the city went first to Time Warner and Embarq to build the network, but they refused.


Indyweek article:
http://www.indyweek.com/gyroba...ntent?oid=oid%3A259848
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Big cable/internet companies are helpless and so strapped for money. Stop picking on them. They only want the best for you and they know best.


/spidey
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I don't possibly see how this is legal. Time for that council to talk to the FCC or PUC.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
After reading the bills, they do have a VERY good point. Read the bills and still tell me that they're wrong. All the law is trying to do is make sure the city has to pay the same fees as private providers. The FCC would most likely agree with these laws.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
I don't possibly see how this is legal. Time for that council to talk to the FCC or PUC.

That's the thing, they're changing the law to work for them.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: spidey07
After reading the bills, they do have a VERY good point. Read the bills and still tell me that they're wrong. All the law is trying to do is make sure the city has to pay the same fees as private providers. The FCC would most likely agree with these laws.

They are wrong.
They want a level playing field, fine. Then TWC has to make all the records for everything they spend in a city, what the broadband cost, what the profit margin is, public. That is what the city has to do when making it a public service.

They only want the laws that benefit them , its plain to see that they are trying everything they can to screw the customer and maximize profits.

They also want cities banned from grants that are given to build out networks.
Section 160A-329 (b)(3) of SB1004 prohibits municipalities who provide broadband services to the public for a fee from using any revenues to build or operate the system other than those generated by the system. This means municipalities would not be able to use any federal grant money to offset the cost of building or operating their voice, video or data systems. This is in complete contradiction to Pres. Obama?s recent Financial Stimulus (ARRA) law which makes state and local governments, not the private sector, directly eligible for billions in low cost or free capital so they can provide affordable, state-of-the art broadband services to underserved areas of our country.


If local broadband systems were failing, the industry has nothing to worry about. If North Carolina?s largest cable provider cared about taxpayer money, then why did it raise rates 5-50% this year in all communities except those where municipalities were providing competitive cable service?


They even tried to slip in a law that would require the municpal broadband services to be profitable within 4 years or be discontinued. They are not subject to that .
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
This is the type of regulation that cripples startups. All these government fees just feed the cable monopoly. Less government=cheaper internet.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
we have been fuked ever since congress started allowing these stupid assed mini-monopolies in the 70s.
 

RadiclDreamer

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
8,622
40
91
Originally posted by: spidey07
I don't possibly see how this is legal. Time for that council to talk to the FCC or PUC.

Time for more people to say fuck off to Time Warner
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,745
42
91
Why does DSl have competition but not cable? If the phone company has to let other companies use their lines cable should have to be held to the same standard
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
bbc already streaming hd at 1.5gb a show.
makes bandwidth caps look ridiculous.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Modelworks

They even tried to slip in a law that would require the municpal broadband services to be profitable within 4 years or be discontinued. They are not subject to that .

You are quoting from an extremely biased source. Please address the actual bills as they are written, not innuendo. You will see that the bills as written exempts underserved areas.

And for the record I have never been against anybody or any city building their own network to provide service and charging whatever they want. The more providers the better. But they all must play by the same rules. I want nothing more then more cities and more people building networks, but the scale can't be tipped against private industry.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
After reading the bills, they do have a VERY good point. Read the bills and still tell me that they're wrong. All the law is trying to do is make sure the city has to pay the same fees as private providers. The FCC would most likely agree with these laws.

Why should the city not be allowed to have access to grants for broadband expansion and broadband stimulus? Who could possibly agree with this?

The private industry is subject to none of the rules in either of these bills, so why should the bills pass? Time Warner is not trying to level the playing field, they're trying to tilt it in their favor.

Something tells me you either didn't read the bills or you misread them. Here is SB1004 (the house bill is the same)
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Se...Senate/PDF/S1004v0.pdf
1) They have to comply with local, state, and federal laws/regulations. Sounds good

2) Establish a separate enterprise fund for accounting of revenues, expenses, etc. WTF? This is an entirely new level of overhead that should be done by the municipal service running this thing. Adding a separate entity to do the accounting is a waste, and if private enterprises were subject to this then they'd shut down.

3) They can't subsidize the cost of communications service with funds from other communications services or revenue sources. This is poorly worded. This requires the service to run at profit, which makes no sense for a government entity. The point is not to generate revenue, it's to provide a service that Time Warner is unwilling to provide! If your "this is retarded" sense is not going off already, then you should go get checked out by a doctor.

4) Rules for determining costs and allowable rates, and none of them need to be in this bill. For some reason it requires that they artificially inflate their costs by accounting for property taxes that would be paid if it were a commercial business (but are not paid because they're public). This is becoming stupid. This artificially increases rates that must be charged (see point 3) by including costs that don't actually exist

5) Prepare and publish an independent annual audit to account for all of these costs, including more fake costs that are artificially created (ie money is never spent on them) so that it looks like they're spending more money than they actually are.

Exemptions - cities can do this for government buildings or if less than 80% of households have any broadband access (ie faster than dialup), but then you can only provide service to the households that have no access already. In other words, this entire bill is a noncompetition agreement.

Private businesses are only subject to point 1, ie they have to follow the law. If you burdened TW with all of these laws, it's likely that they'd have to operate at a loss or else increase rates substantially.

In other words, they're trying to prevent this public service from operating at a profit with lower rates. For NO REASON other than their own greed. They refuse to provide better service, but they also don't want anyone else providing those services.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Modelworks

They even tried to slip in a law that would require the municpal broadband services to be profitable within 4 years or be discontinued. They are not subject to that .

You are quoting from an extremely biased source. Please address the actual bills as they are written, not innuendo. You will see that the bills as written exempts underserved areas.

And for the record I have never been against anybody or any city building their own network to provide service and charging whatever they want. The more providers the better. But they all must play by the same rules. I want nothing more then more cities and more people building networks, but the scale can't be tipped against private industry.

Then why are you claiming that these bills are fair? They artificially increase operating costs (by requiring several third party accounting services) and on top of that tack on pretend "costs" that don't exist. And the final imaginary cost (as opposed to the actual cost) sets the minimum rates.

And it also requires an independent auditing report, which is absolutely ridiculous and tacks on more real operating costs. Is Time Warner required to submit to and pay for independent auditing reports?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Eeezee


And it also requires an independent auditing report, which is absolutely ridiculous and tacks on more real operating costs. Is Time Warner required to submit to and pay for independent auditing reports?

Absolutely they and any other "big company" are - sarbanes/oxley.

To you previous points...

1) agree
2) This is to prevent the mixing of capital and other revenues to make sure the "service" isn't using funds from other city allocations
3) yeah, poorly worded
4) If private industry has to pay it then they must as well otherwise that tilts the scale to the city or at least account for the discrepancy between the two
5) That's what other providers have to do

You see this same kind of wrangling over any other utility and it's not just voice/video/data. The city/county vs. incumbent (and many times that incumbent is the city), be it water or power, whatever. As long as we can all view this as a strict utility you'll find these kinds of laws quite commonplace.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,923
0
0
2) The problem I have with this is that it allows false claims to be made that the service is violating the law. Say that the city happens to lower broadband service rates but also decreases funding for fire services. Time Warner could show up and claim that they violated the bill even if the spending changes were made completely independently, and even if the public service runs at a profit before and after the changes in funding/charges.
Also, why does a separate firm have to do this? This adds unnecessary overhead. Does Time Warner not have an internal accounting department?
Points 3 and 4 deal with the mixing of capital. If anything, Point 2 and Point 5 are redundant, and neither of them are necessary if there is any accounting being done at all.

4) They don't actually have to pay it, they just have to pretend that they've paid it. If they can find some cheap land, they have to pretend that they've paid full price and then paid taxes on it. And they have to charge users more accordingly. In other words, it forces users to pay more for nothing in interest of "fairness", yet Time Warner also gets a monopoly deal over other private broadband providers. Fair indeed
Worse yet, the city has to add pretend charges that include things like "administration fees". If the public service is paying their administrators less than Time Warner, then they have to artificially alter their costs to reflect this difference.

5) I'm unaware of this. I was under the impression that Time Warner audited itself and was not required to hire 3rd parties to do it. Also, I misspoke: this is actually provision 6, not 5

The actual provision 5 requires that the public service tally up all of the additional faux costs and then actually pay them to the city. So the bill is requiring even MORE overhead for no reason. It's bad enough that they have to tabulate pretend costs for determining rates and reducing competitiveness, but then they have to actually pay these pretend costs to the city. This goes into expenditures!

This means that the public service actually pays just as much as Time Warner for all taxes, fees, etc but then they also get the pretend costs added onto that for determining rates.
 
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