No further AGP cards from nVidia.

[Nathelion]

Lol, we ARE "stuck" with AGP compatibility. That's what this article is ABOUT. lol.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Auric
Stop trying to hold back progress with reason. If everyone had that attitude we would still be stuck with AGP compatability.

:thumbsup::laugh:

BTW, before the 7x00 line was released, didnt nvidia also say that they were ending support for AGP? (long time ago, so I am probably not recalling this correctly).

 

[Denithor]

The only problem I have with AGP still hanging around is all the people who post on the boards with questions like "What is the best AGP card I can get today for under $100?"

But seriously, I expect AGP will simply fade away slowly, like ISA did and like the PATA IDE connection is doing currently. The main factor is the OEM computing market, most of those for the last however many years have featured PCI-E slots instead of AGP so when a Dell user gets the urge to game he will not be in the market for an AGP card.

 

[Golgatha]

DVD 1,325,132 96.26 %


I expect this type of number for PCIe in the next couple of years.

AGP is dead. I've been on PCIe for 3-4 years now. At some point, a long long time ago, it quit being the bleeding edge and went mainstream folks. If you want to play the latest games with all the eye candy turned up, it's time to upgrade.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'm not saying that PCIe is high end, but for some systems the price/performance ratio just isn't there yet. To go from AGP to PCIe you're not just replacing the motherboard, you're replacing:

Motherboard
Processor
(Probably) HSF
RAM
Video card
Certain other accessories on loaded systems (Sound cards, RAID cards since PCIe mobos typically only have 2 legacy slots)

Maybe when the quads get down to the $300 mark...

 

[evolucion8]

I don't see how AGP support holds back technology, I don't see videocard manufacturers handicapping the technology artificially in videocards so they can run in AGP, impacting the performance of their PCI-e counterparts. That way of thinking is ridiculous, where there's market, there's money, if someone with a slow dog P4 @2.8GHz wants to buy a HD 3850, buys it, after all they just want our money, not our way of thinking about bottleneck and stuff.

AGP market still respectable, and there still quite a lot of systems with excellent CPU's like Athlon X2, heavy overclocked Pentium 4's or Athlon 64 single cores, (Or the small niche market with Pentium M's like me). After all the bottlenecks in systems like overclocked Athlon 64 or Pentium M comes when there's games that are optimized for dual core (Let see, like 10 games right? :shocked in games that are only single cores, running at the same speed, the performance is almost identical, after all the Core 2 Duo is a derivative of the Pentium M (The Floating Point enhancements barely affects the gaming performance, in gaming performance is more important the integer performance) and the Athlon X2 is just two sandwiched Athlon 64's.

Still, not understand the AGP hating thing.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
DVD 1,325,132 96.26 %


I expect this type of number for PCIe in the next couple of years.

AGP is dead. I've been on PCIe for 3-4 years now. At some point, a long long time ago, it quit being the bleeding edge and went mainstream folks. If you want to play the latest games with all the eye candy turned up, it's time to upgrade.

So who really cares what you did?

1 in 4 gamers are evidently still on AGP
- it is a market that nvidia is ignoring
[to AMD's delight]

 

[Chosonman]

They've said that for years. No more AGP, but card makers (and not Nvidia) are still making AGP and selling out of them even with the additional markup they have over their PCI-e counter parts. I own about 6 computers right now only 2 are PCI-e, the rest are AGP 8X. I would like to see cheap AGP grahics cards in the future that I can play 90% of the games with because I'm not planning on scrapping any of my machines anytime soon.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Golgatha
DVD 1,325,132 96.26 %


I expect this type of number for PCIe in the next couple of years.

AGP is dead. I've been on PCIe for 3-4 years now. At some point, a long long time ago, it quit being the bleeding edge and went mainstream folks. If you want to play the latest games with all the eye candy turned up, it's time to upgrade.

So who really cares what you did?

1 in 4 gamers are evidently still on AGP
- it is a market that nvidia is ignoring
[to AMD's delight]

Just because 1-in-4 gamers on Steam still has an AGP machine currently doesn't mean that they are going to upgrade the video card in that system. My guess is that most people who still have an AGP card now are not the type of people to upgrade components, but are the type of people that replace entire systems. I don't know anyone that has an AGP card that plans on upgrading it before they buy a new PC, and I do know a few people (gamers) that still have an AGP rig.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Golgatha
DVD 1,325,132 96.26 %


I expect this type of number for PCIe in the next couple of years.

AGP is dead. I've been on PCIe for 3-4 years now. At some point, a long long time ago, it quit being the bleeding edge and went mainstream folks. If you want to play the latest games with all the eye candy turned up, it's time to upgrade.

So who really cares what you did?

1 in 4 gamers are evidently still on AGP
- it is a market that nvidia is ignoring
[to AMD's delight]

Just because 1-in-4 gamers on Steam still has an AGP machine currently doesn't mean that they are going to upgrade the video card in that system. My guess is that most people who still have an AGP card now are not the type of people to upgrade components, but are the type of people that replace entire systems. I don't know anyone that has an AGP card that plans on upgrading it before they buy a new PC, and I do know a few people (gamers) that still have an AGP rig.

sure it does ... they are on steam afterall, ... *everyone* wants faster but
not everyone can spend the bucks for an entire new system when a $200 GPU will give a nice increase

and if you want to "know someone" that is upgrading their AGP card, look no further than "AGP threads"
:roll:

 

[PingSpike]

The reason AGP was so popular is simple if you look at where gaming on the PC (and still kind of is) when PCI-e came out and nvidia quickly pronounced AGP dead. For about 2-3 years before dual cores came out (and like 2 years after) processor speeds had pretty much stagnated, causing game developers to focus primarily on using the continually increasing graphic horsepower. This meant drop in replacements of the video card, a simple task, was about all that was needed to keep your PC rolling. Thus, consumers were faced with two options:
1) Buy a PCI-e video card, replace the motherboard, processor, possibly ram and heatsink to allow it to be installed. Probably reinstall windows, spend a good deal of time tearing the PC apart. This task required some one fairly confident with PC hardware.
2) Spend a few more bucks for the AGP version. Most people can handle this fairly simple upgrade.

No duh, a lot of people went the second route.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Still, not understand the AGP hating thing.

IMO, it's about hating AGP. People still have really bad memories of AGP.

I went through quite a few BSOD/lockups with various boards and drivers. Just look at the recently resolved (?) issues with Catalyst drivers, for one example of how frustrating AGP can be. Back in my old AGP days, I can remember trying registry hacks, five different AGP GART drivers, Windows reinstallations, BIOS settings, etc. just to get the damned thing to work.

Or, more generally, consider the lingering hatred you'll see for Creative Labs sound card drivers...or VIA chipsets...or Antec PSUs. When you get burned badly enough by something, you just hate it (irrationally). It's a natural human response.

That's why people get annoyed just hearing AGP, except maybe when the thread gives them the opportunity to dance and spit all over its (virtual) grave. Or to pretend that anyone still using AGP is being screwed (or is mentally impaired). Or anything else that qualifies as venting...

This really has nothing to do with AGP users or their choices.

 

[BFG10K]

sure it does ... they are on steam afterall, ... *everyone* wants faster but
not everyone can spend the bucks for an entire new system when a $200 GPU will give a nice increase

You can?t make that inference based on the Steam figures. The amount of people that chose to upgrade to a faster AGP card could be a fraction of those actually on AGP.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

sure it does ... they are on steam afterall, ... *everyone* wants faster but
not everyone can spend the bucks for an entire new system when a $200 GPU will give a nice increase

You can?t make that inference based on the Steam figures. The amount of people that chose to upgrade to a faster AGP card could be a fraction of those actually on AGP.

the inference you can make is that more than 1/4 of Steam gamers are still on AGP ...
... and that IS a market that nvidia is not addressing any longer... so they will get almost none of 'whoever' upgrades ... whatever percentage that turns out to be

better?

 

[Margalus]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Still, not understand the AGP hating thing.

IMO, it's about hating AGP. People still have really bad memories of AGP.

I went through quite a few BSOD/lockups with various boards and drivers. Just look at the recently resolved (?) issues with Catalyst drivers, for one example of how frustrating AGP can be. Back in my old AGP days, I can remember trying registry hacks, five different AGP GART drivers, Windows reinstallations, BIOS settings, etc. just to get the damned thing to work.


This really has nothing to do with AGP users or their choices.

Just because you had a crappy mobo or crappy video card or bad drivers has absolutely nothing at all to do with agp. There were no problems at all with agp, you're problems were caused by some other factor than the card/slot being agp.

 

[evolucion8]

Yeah, the AGP ATi driver issue was an isolated thing, it wasn't something that came all over again over time. Also I never had any single issue with AGP, if you buy crappy motherboards with crappy chipsets using crappy AGP implementations, be ready to face issues, never had a single issue with Intel chipsets and AGP. (Even though they AGP driver dates from 2004 loll)

 

[nullpointerus]

evolucion8:

Believe what you will. The fact is that there were a lot of crappy AGP products on the market, and enough people got burned that there's a lingering hatred for AGP on this forum. There's your explanation. You can claim no understanding of this problems, and you can act like only the consumers were to blame for buying crappy products, but IMO that's just flamebait. I regret having responded to such tripe in the first place.

/discussion

 

[MustangSVT]

heh, as I finally go into PCI E, they make the move.

but my 6800gt will run strong with someone else's pc. It still ran many many new games such a great card.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
evolucion8:

Believe what you will. The fact is that there were a lot of crappy AGP products on the market, and enough people got burned that there's a lingering hatred for AGP on this forum. There's your explanation. You can claim no understanding of this problems, and you can act like only the consumers were to blame for buying crappy products, but IMO that's just flamebait. I regret having responded to such tripe in the first place.

/discussion

Not to be rude but the majority of the AGP issues such as the gart, 4x/8x etc.. are all related to the chipset. If my memory serves me right it was Via's chipset and one version of nvidia's.

But yes, you are correct some issues occured but they are long since gone.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
evolucion8:

Believe what you will. The fact is that there were a lot of crappy AGP products on the market, and enough people got burned that there's a lingering hatred for AGP on this forum. There's your explanation. You can claim no understanding of this problems, and you can act like only the consumers were to blame for buying crappy products, but IMO that's just flamebait. I regret having responded to such tripe in the first place.

/discussion

Not to be rude but the majority of the AGP issues such as the gart, 4x/8x etc.. are all related to the chipset. If my memory serves me right it was Via's chipset and one version of nvidia's.

But yes, you are correct some issues occured but they are long since gone.

i thought only us old guys remember - it was the chipset, not the platform

... and not enough for "lingering hatred" .. there were no major problems with AGP 8X, were there?

i'd say it is more of an "elitist" thing ... looking down disdainfully at an older platform

 

[Auric]

The notion that there is anything inherently wrong with the AGP standard is ludicrous. There have indeed been dodgy chipsets -most notably from Nvidia, that are riddled with problems not only with video cards but hard drives and sound cards as well. I agree Intel chipsets are simply reliable and free of compatability issues. I have never seen the attraction for an end-user of saving a few dollars nor being misled by claims of a few percent better performance. Reliability is paramount.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
evolucion8:

Believe what you will. The fact is that there were a lot of crappy AGP products on the market, and enough people got burned that there's a lingering hatred for AGP on this forum. There's your explanation. You can claim no understanding of this problems, and you can act like only the consumers were to blame for buying crappy products, but IMO that's just flamebait. I regret having responded to such tripe in the first place.

/discussion

I have no regrets :laugh: I don't cut corners for reliability.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Auric
The notion that there is anything inherently wrong with the AGP standard is ludicrous. There have indeed been dodgy chipsets -most notably from Nvidia, that are riddled with problems not only with video cards but hard drives and sound cards as well. I agree Intel chipsets are simply reliable and free of compatability issues. I have never seen the attraction for an end-user of saving a few dollars nor being misled by claims of a few percent better performance. Reliability is paramount.

I wouldnt call the nforce3s dodgey. Nor soundstorm.. wish they brough that back.

The only reason intel has the best reliability is because they have absolutely all the required data to create such "stable" platform (since they are the ones who designed the cpu afterall), However 3rd party chipset companies are locked out of some required info or lack some documents, where is becomes a pita to design a "stable" motherboard.

This is why nVIDIA AMD chipsets are just much better than the intel counterparts in terms of stability. Because AMD doesn't need to worry about competition since they didnt make any chipsets at all. The nforce4 were one of the most popular chipsets in its time.

On the other side of the camp intel doesn't want any serious threats to its chipset business afterall. Thats why its quite tough to say nVIDIA or any other 3rd party makes dodgey
intel chipsets.

But enough with OT.
I think its time for the other IHV to stop beating the dead horse over and over again, and instead focus the resources used to other future products.

 

[Sphexi]

I agree with higher-end GPUs it doesn't make sense, as AGP just can't handle the bandwidth. But does that mean if you have an older 478 mobo with a P4 and you want to make a decent-mid level rig, you are out of luck, and it's better to just go blow $500+ on a new one?

My wife has been using a P4 2.4/1.5GB DDR/X800XT for a while, I just upgraded her to a C2D system with a 7950GT in it. Decided to use her old parts for a HTPC, and I was happy that they still have newer GPUs on older cards, I got a HD2600 card from ATI, just so I'd have DX10 support, and hardware based HD decoding, as I put in a HD-DVD/Bluray LG drive in the box, and I know that the CPU won't be able to handle it on its own. It's a lower end card than the X800XT, but it's designed to do what I want it to, and it supports HDCP output to a HD LCD of some sort, which is all I care about.

 

[TheRyuu]

It's about damn time.