No high end for ATI in 2008

[trajan2050]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/..._Next_Generation_ATI_R700_Graphics_Chips.html

The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities.

This is why cash flow is now a critical factor for AMD.

 

[Cookie Monster]

There will be a high end. R680. Not sure about the next gen R700 though. Heard it was pushed back til 09.

 

[tuteja1986]

Dude , R700 wouldn't come out untill next 2009. But it doesn't mean ATI wouldn't release a R600 refresh every few months which ATI tends to do :!
R500 :
X1800XT
X1900XTX
X1950XTX

Even if ATI release a R700 now it wouldn't add anything really new as they have already introduced everything that could be added but to R670.

Also we are coming to a peak point in GPU.

What can Nvidia and ATI can do next with R800 and G100 ?

Unifed Shader 1024 , Texture Unit 64 , Rop 32 , GDDR 5 6Ghz , 1024bits ?

ATI already added DDR 4 , High shader count (which didn't help it in performance) ... so i think AMD is not bothering to release R700.

They already added everything that 9XXX would have with R670/R680.

DX10.1
55nm
Display port
DDR 4 512bit
Quad crossfire

All ati can really do is know is increase the shader / rop / texture unit which they will do in 2008.

R300 to R420 wasn't a major jump :!
Same with GeForce 6 to Geforce 7 which refined version

R420 to R500 was a decent jump
R500 to R600 was a major architecture change
Geforce 7 to Geforce 8 was major jump and major architecture change
Now Geforce 8 to Geforce 9 is going incremental jump as its only adding few technologies like DX10.1 , SLI 3rd gen , 65nm move , display port , increase rop , increase shader , increase texture unit , DDR 4 support , 512bit.

So geforce 8 to geforce 9 add pretty nothing major that geforce 7 to geforce 8 did.

 

[Butterbean]

R680 multi core in January:

"AMD official with ATI R680, RV620, and RV635 GPU cores"

http://www.engadget.com/2007/1...0-and-rv635-gpu-cores/

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: trajan2050
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/v...00_Graphics_Chips.html

The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities.

This is why cash flow is now a critical factor for AMD.

Repost

 

[wazzledoozle]

Are you kidding? The Geforce 6800 Ultra to the 7800GTX was a major performance jump.

ATI is screwed, there is no way around it.

 

[BFG10K]

R700 is 2008.

 

[trajan2050]

Lets hope so because Nvidia is coming on strong.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index....=view&id=4763&Itemid=1

Nvidia?s G100 comes in March


Very late Q1


According to current plans, Nvidia plans to introduce its Geforce 9 series high end part codenamed G100 around march 2008.

We don?t know many details, but we do know that the chip should end up faster than two G92 D8E dual PCB card which is scheduled for launch in late January.

It will be on time to launch with G96 which is a mainstream part.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Dude , R700 wouldn't come out untill next 2009. But it doesn't mean ATI wouldn't release a R600 refresh every few months which ATI tends to do :!
R500 :
X1800XT
X1900XTX
X1950XTX

Even if ATI release a R700 now it wouldn't add anything really new as they have already introduced everything that could be added but to R670.

Also we are coming to a peak point in GPU.

What can Nvidia and ATI can do next with R800 and G100 ?

Unifed Shader 1024 , Texture Unit 64 , Rop 32 , GDDR 5 6Ghz , 1024bits ?

ATI already added DDR 4 , High shader count (which didn't help it in performance) ... so i think AMD is not bothering to release R700.

They already added everything that 9XXX would have with R670/R680.

DX10.1
55nm
Display port
DDR 4 512bit
Quad crossfire

All ati can really do is know is increase the shader / rop / texture unit which they will do in 2008.

R300 to R420 wasn't a major jump :!
Same with GeForce 6 to Geforce 7 which refined version

R420 to R500 was a decent jump
R500 to R600 was a major architecture change
Geforce 7 to Geforce 8 was major jump and major architecture change
Now Geforce 8 to Geforce 9 is going incremental jump as its only adding few technologies like DX10.1 , SLI 3rd gen , 65nm move , display port , increase rop , increase shader , increase texture unit , DDR 4 support , 512bit.

So geforce 8 to geforce 9 add pretty nothing major that geforce 7 to geforce 8 did.

So what you're saying is, graphics gpu's have peaked and there is no sense continuing in the further development of them. This is what you believe the reason has to be for AMD to cut R&D spending on graphics GPU's.


Why do you tell yourself these things? Let alone others?

 

[tuteja1986]

ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

Don't know where I heard it from? Then you didn't read beyond the first comma of the OP?

"The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities. " -quote from xbit.

I can go on for hours here about how exactly you "don't" know what you're talking about. This is the first real generation of shader based GPU's. The true departure from the conventional "pipeline". They've only just begun. Even X1900 was a "hybrid". If AMD cuts down R&D spending to their graphics product group, nothing good could come from that.

 

[SickBeast]

A conflicting report came out today that said the R700 has not been delayed and will be out in 2008. Apparently the AMD guy that mentioned the delay was referring to the R700-derivatives that could go into things like Fusion.

I never understand AMD's PR. They really need to work on clear communication.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

I'm sure if NV thought that way they wouldn't have given shaders the treatment they did with G80. I don't think enough has been made of it, but their decision to split shader from raster clocks was absolutely ingenius. Now you basically get 2x the shader power without having to run your entire core at insane clock speeds or physically adding more shaders (G92 shader clocks are pushing 2GHz....)

That's what R&D does for you and I'm sure they'll continue to refine current architectures without simply relying on more/faster transistors.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

They should give it proper AA hardware, maybe even the 10mb cache that the Xbox 360 has to enable "free" AA.

They need to re-engineer the shaders to make them more powerful and more efficient. 320 weak stream processors are a complete waste when no games are programmed to use them.

I wish they would research a way to harness all this "DX 10 efficiency" that we were supposed to see by now.

How's that for some options?

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

They should give it proper AA hardware, maybe even the 10mb cache that the Xbox 360 has to enable "free" AA.

They need to re-engineer the shaders to make them more powerful and more efficient. 320 weak stream processors are a complete waste when no games are programmed to use them.

I wish they would research a way to harness all this "DX 10 efficiency" that we were supposed to see by now.

How's that for some options?

Well i think ATI could put 32mb DRAM cache for free 4xAA to 8xAA suppport : ) but no developer would actually take advantage of it because their relation with developer is filled with disappointment. Almost every major game expect for HL 2 series is on TWIMTB program. I really think ATI needs to increase its rop/texture unit ( go more Nvidia type architecture ). Their program to help developer is a horrible frailer as games like Bioshock , World in conflict and other all shipped with Show stopper bug for ATI gpu. This then causes ATI driver team to spends all its time fixing the problem instead of working hard to increase performance.

The fate of ATI will be know by Q2 2008. If they don't gain back the lost market share , then AMD will really kills ATI R&D. I really want to see Q4 GPU sales report to see if the reports of ATI selling decent amount of GPU is actually true.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

Don't know where I heard it from? Then you didn't read beyond the first comma of the OP?

"The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities. " -quote from xbit.

I can go on for hours here about how exactly you "don't" know what you're talking about. This is the first real generation of shader based GPU's. The true departure from the conventional "pipeline". They've only just begun. Even X1900 was a "hybrid". If AMD cuts down R&D spending to their graphics product group, nothing good could come from that.

Comes form a guy who think hardocp is the most awesome website.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

Don't know where I heard it from? Then you didn't read beyond the first comma of the OP?

"The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities. " -quote from xbit.

I can go on for hours here about how exactly you "don't" know what you're talking about. This is the first real generation of shader based GPU's. The true departure from the conventional "pipeline". They've only just begun. Even X1900 was a "hybrid". If AMD cuts down R&D spending to their graphics product group, nothing good could come from that.

Comes form a guy who think hardocp is the most awesome website.

Speaking of hardocp

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

Don't know where I heard it from? Then you didn't read beyond the first comma of the OP?

"The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities. " -quote from xbit.

I can go on for hours here about how exactly you "don't" know what you're talking about. This is the first real generation of shader based GPU's. The true departure from the conventional "pipeline". They've only just begun. Even X1900 was a "hybrid". If AMD cuts down R&D spending to their graphics product group, nothing good could come from that.

Comes form a guy who think hardocp is the most awesome website.

Says the guy who posts computerbase benches and dismisses all others?

Even if I did think it was the "most awesome" website, which I do not. (I think it's good).
It still would not make anything you said above make sense. How bout them apples?

What you actually tried to do, was readily make an outlandish excuse for even just the rumour, that AMD was cutting back on R&D.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

They should give it proper AA hardware, maybe even the 10mb cache that the Xbox 360 has to enable "free" AA.

They need to re-engineer the shaders to make them more powerful and more efficient. 320 weak stream processors are a complete waste when no games are programmed to use them.

I wish they would research a way to harness all this "DX 10 efficiency" that we were supposed to see by now.

How's that for some options?

If all 320 shaders were fed and churned away, R600 would have been a remarkable GPU. Along the lines of the R300 launch, maybe even better. They would have nuked Nvidia all around. But alas, it is what it is. If the industry doesn't make an effort to support ATI's shaders, then ATI will have to make an effort to change it's shaders. And about AA support. I wouldn't care if ATI utilized hardware based AA or shader based, as long as it improved performance. I'm sure, with more R&D they will improve it either way.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI R&D wasn't cut ... i don't where you heard that. Tell what new technologies would R700 get ?

All they can do know is just increase the rop , Shader , Texture unit , memory core , memory speed. But is that a real architecture change or just refined version of R600. DX11 probably wouldn't come out untill next Windows launch so i don't see anything major that can be added to R700.

Don't know where I heard it from? Then you didn't read beyond the first comma of the OP?

"The reasons behind the delay of ATI R700 are unclear, but are believed to be related to AMD?s intention to cut down the research and development (R&D) expenses. The consequences of the decision may be dramatic, if not fatal, to AMD?s graphics product group, as state-of-the-art graphics technologies not only enable graphics cards that retail for the price as high as $849, but also open the door to video game consoles, which sell in hundreds of millions quantities. " -quote from xbit.

I can go on for hours here about how exactly you "don't" know what you're talking about. This is the first real generation of shader based GPU's. The true departure from the conventional "pipeline". They've only just begun. Even X1900 was a "hybrid". If AMD cuts down R&D spending to their graphics product group, nothing good could come from that.

Comes form a guy who think hardocp is the most awesome website.

Says the guy who posts computerbase benches and dismisses all others?

Even if I did think it was the "most awesome" website, which I do not. (I think it's good).
It still would not make anything you said above make sense. How bout them apples?

What you actually tried to do, was readily make an outlandish excuse for even just the rumour, that AMD was cutting back on R&D.

it's *all* silly speculation

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Comes form a guy who think hardocp is the most awesome website.

Speaking of hardocp

LOL

pwned.

You're reposting what I already said above, but it gave me a laugh so I'll give you credit for it. :beer: