Sweet, G20 is someone who has the long term picture as chief concern. Can I get my check now? $5k please, I promise to stimulate the ecomomy immediately.
We paid $278,000 per job created under porkulus...I can't see how a measly $5k would be an issue for a true Keynesian...provided that you promise to immediately spend it. I don't see the problem here. :biggrin:Sweet, G20 is someone who has the long term picture as chief concern. Can I get my check now? $5k please, I promise to stimulate the ecomomy immediately.
We paid $278,000 per job created under porkulus...I can't see how a measly $5k would be an issue for a true Keynesian...provided that you promise to immediately spend it. I don't see the problem here. :biggrin:
Loaded onto debit (well, debit to us, credit to the Fed gov) cards. Think about it: Pay for an "infrastructure" "improvement" like the road that they re-asphalted over here (that had nothing wrong with it in the first place), and is now - predictably - falling apart - but surely employed loyal voting Union workers of all types...
...or, just give the money to me and I'll spend it as I see fit. Think how much more of a happy voter I'll be spending that $5k by early Nov. when I know another $5k will be forthcoming. Man I've got my stimulus products already picked out, I just need some Spender Munnay! Show me the money!
No free money if you can't even be troubled to create a ridiculously unrealistic business plan for some kind of "green company" like electric car, windmill, or solar power. Obama doesn't give out free money to average middle class schmoes, only their pet liberal causes.
Uh, No. I've become a Spender, I'm in eski's camp. It is "free" money because we never need to pay that debt off. If I get a loan I never need to pay off, that's free. It's not "free", it's, free.
I just want to make sure that I get my $5k tax free checks, and don't get stiffed like last time. Saving is for suckers...
The solution to people paying down debt is to just issue more money. People paying down their debt is a good thing in a situation like now where we have too much debt. It's true that infrastructure pays returns down the road, but it just takes too long rendering it an ineffective form a stimulus. The purpose of stimulus is NOT to stimulate spending and consumption going forward for 10-30 years (which is how long infrastructure projects take to pay themselves back) - it's to stimulate spending and consumption for 1month-1year down the line. ie, it's to stimulate now rather than later. This is why Japan's huge infrastructure projects that they have spent their stimulus money on in the last few decades have not yielded as much effect as desired.Except of course that infrastructure spending pays long term dividends that greatly magnify the overall benefit and we have direct experience with cutting everyone a check from 2008.
The primary purpose of stimulus spending is to stimulate spending and consumption going forward. Bush tried the whole 'cut everyone a check' idea in the early months of 2008, but what happened is that a significant portion of people who were not income constrained just used it to pay down debt or saved it as opposed to its intended purpose. Sure it might be more 'fair', but it is also less effective.
The solution to people paying down debt is to just issue more money. People paying down their debt is a good thing in a situation like now where we have too much debt. It's true that infrastructure pays returns down the road, but it just takes too long rendering it an ineffective form a stimulus. The purpose of stimulus is NOT to stimulate spending and consumption going forward for 10-30 years (which is how long infrastructure projects take to pay themselves back) - it's to stimulate spending and consumption for 1month-1year down the line. ie, it's to stimulate now rather than later. This is why Japan's huge infrastructure projects that they have spent their stimulus money on in the last few decades have not yielded as much effect as desired.
Ultimately, when you have too much debt and a money system that is based on debt, there are only two ways to get out of the problem: print money or default. Paying down the debt is not a solution because since the money supply is based on debt, every time you pay down debt you decrease the money supply and hence reduce your ability to pay down more debt.
Wouldn't work because the money you print is also based on debt. You would increase debt by the same amount you pay down debt. Zero net effect.At which point you can print some money to balance the deflation due to paying down the debt. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
forced budget cuts and look what happens. The stock market takes off. We need more budget cuts and budget roll backs.