No Man's Sky Refunds!

[HOOfan 1]

So, out is totalbiscuit, jim sterling, and all the self-styled youtube "journalists" and "video game reporters" because they don't actually belong to a licensed outfit. In my point of view, Sean Whatshisname can lie to these people all day long, if they buy into it and decide to hype .. to praise the game, just out of seeing some footage and following some interviews, then the people who buy the game based on those recommendations are dumb.
.

So you honestly believe that game developers who lie to the media, and lie on stage to the public are not at fault. You honestly believe the media is fault for the lies told by the developers?

You are implying that Sean Murray was compelled to lie by the media outlets reporting on his game. You actually seem to be implying that Sean Murray is not even responsible for the words coming out of his own mouth.

I agree that people need to accept the risks of pre-ordering, but it's preposterous to absolve the developers of any fault when they don't deliver what they said they would deliver.

 

[TeknoBug]

i should specify that i do not trust ANY media that does not answer to a government authority; this might shock some freedom americans, but i don't trust any youtube review, the huffington post, kotaku, The Edge, and so on. I only trust the old media where, if you print something which is bullshit, you go to jail.
European laws, your mileage may vary.

So, out is totalbiscuit, jim sterling, and all the self-styled youtube "journalists" and "video game reporters" because they don't actually belong to a licensed outfit. In my point of view, Sean Whatshisname can lie to these people all day long, if they buy into it and decide to hype .. to praise the game, just out of seeing some footage and following some interviews, then the people who buy the game based on those recommendations are dumb.

Now, if you print a box description, and the features printed on the box are false, that's false advertising; if the steam page advertises features that aren't there, that's false advertising and people do deserve to get a refund.

Remember that the guy is not selling you the material in the promotional videos, he's selling you what's in the box. The promo should be expected to embellish the material, always.
And if he cheats you .. you got cheated. Caveat Emptor.

Once upon a common sense time, companies didn't mess around like this because good business was made through reputation and word of mouth; and sadly, people who pre-order and rush to buy on day one, KNOWING that games often fail on day1 and are often misrepresented, are what's ruining what was once a good system of business.
Those who forget history ...

I'm not talking about Youtube review videos, I'm talking about videos of Sean Murray sitting there with all these words coming out his own mouth, even showing features of the game on a TV screen behind him, mostly of which doesn't exist in the release. Someone even asked him in one of the videos if multiplayer is in the game and he straight up said YES, nobody but him spun the game- the media was following what was supposed to be in the game.

 

[KMFJD]

Those of you that are requesting a refund, how many hours have you actually played?

 

[DigDog]

I'm not talking about Youtube review videos, I'm talking about videos of Sean Murray sitting there with all these words coming out his own mouth, even showing features of the game on a TV screen behind him, mostly of which doesn't exist in the release. Someone even asked him in one of the videos if multiplayer is in the game and he straight up said YES, nobody but him spun the game- the media was following what was supposed to be in the game.

yes but, WHERE do these videos come from? are they one the developer's blog, or are they on the online store? because the two things are different, from a legal standpoint. In one of those you can embellish as much as you want, in the other you are liable.

You are implying that Sean Murray was compelled to lie by the media outlets reporting on his game. You actually seem to be implying that Sean Murray is not even responsible for the words coming out of his own mouth.

ermm, no, and no, and no.

what i AM implying, is that sean murray is about as guilty as Martin Shkreli was. what he did is (mostly) legal, the only thing that can suffer is his reputation, which he had none to start with, but was magically granted much of it by people buying the game based on what essentially are TV ADS. It's like you go to the store, buy a case of bud light, and then sue them when half naked chicks suddenly fail to materialize out of thin air.

 

[Squeetard]

You are so wrong Digdog. What if, what if. The CEO of Budweiser held a news conference and swore that if you bought a case of bud a bikini clad hot chick would appear in your room?

Or, if you pre-ordered a car from a dealership with AC power windows and nav. You get your car only to find it has none of your options and on top of that, the only thing your car can do is drive in a straight line, not even a steering wheel. Would you want your money back?

 

[HumblePie]

i should specify that i do not trust ANY media that does not answer to a government authority; this might shock some freedom americans, but i don't trust any youtube review, the huffington post, kotaku, The Edge, and so on. I only trust the old media where, if you print something which is bullshit, you go to jail.
European laws, your mileage may vary.

So, out is totalbiscuit, jim sterling, and all the self-styled youtube "journalists" and "video game reporters" because they don't actually belong to a licensed outfit. In my point of view, Sean Whatshisname can lie to these people all day long, if they buy into it and decide to hype .. to praise the game, just out of seeing some footage and following some interviews, then the people who buy the game based on those recommendations are dumb.

Now, if you print a box description, and the features printed on the box are false, that's false advertising; if the steam page advertises features that aren't there, that's false advertising and people do deserve to get a refund.

Remember that the guy is not selling you the material in the promotional videos, he's selling you what's in the box. The promo should be expected to embellish the material, always.
And if he cheats you .. you got cheated. Caveat Emptor.

Once upon a common sense time, companies didn't mess around like this because good business was made through reputation and word of mouth; and sadly, people who pre-order and rush to buy on day one, KNOWING that games often fail on day1 and are often misrepresented, are what's ruining what was once a good system of business.
Those who forget history ...

Dude you are a moron. There are laws in place against false advertising for a reason. Top that off you are getting confused.

You are confusing false advertising with puffery.

Puffery advertising is allowed. Slogans like "World's Greatest Burger!" are allowed because they are known puffery type advertising. There is no objective way to determine a worlds greatest anything when it comes to food so no one is going to believe it. Because of the nature of that, it is allowed.

False advertising is claiming a product does or is one thing, but turns out that is completely wrong. Saying you are selling the most beautiful car is one thing. Saying you are selling a car that can get 50 mpg for highway driving and the car only gets 30 mpg on the highway is lying.

Now, it would have been perfectly acceptable if the devs of NMS had said, we expect to have all these features in the game, with some features to be released in future patches after launch. Had they done that, there may have been some grumbling, but nothing illegal about it. That isn't what happened with NMS. You had the company explicitly advertising the product as one thing and delivering something else at launch. It doesn't matter that it may be "patched" in later. That patch in part has to be stipulated if the feature was claimed to be part of the game. Same thing is happening with NVidia and their GTX 970 video card. Claimed it was 4GB of usable memory at release and it wasn't. They later fixed their advertising, but have recently lost a lawsuit over their initial advertising. They should also have been slapped with a huge fine by the FTC for it too.

 

[Vivendi]

Doesn't the trailer for the game on the steam website still show gameplay that isn't in the game? If so, Steam should be refunding regardless of play time, there's no reason a person would be expected to find out that those features are missing within a two hour limit.

On the other hand, maybe people deserve this after buying into the hype time after time. Maybe they'll learn (but probably not).

 

[Sabrewings]

You had the company explicitly advertising the product as one thing and delivering something else at launch.

This.

Doesn't the trailer for the game on the steam website still show gameplay that isn't in the game? If so, Steam should be refunding regardless of play time,

And this.

In other news, I still haven't received another response from Steam but I'm not expecting anything. If this is how they choose to operate their store, then they can count me out of their future. Meanwhile, today I had an unrelated customer service experience with Amazon and it was possibly the most delightful I've ever had. This isn't the first time I've had to deal with Steam and it's also not the first time they have shown they care little for the customer.

I will definitely find any other avenue to spend money on games than Steam in the future. And I once was such a proponent of theirs, it's disappointing.

 

[zinfamous]

False advertising is claiming a product does or is one thing, but turns out that is completely wrong. Saying you are selling the most beautiful car is one thing. Saying you are selling a car that can get 50 mpg for highway driving and the car only gets 30 mpg on the highway is lying.
.

To put a finer point on it: Ask VW what it's like to try and sell cars with false and doctored emissions data.

 

[Sabrewings]

To put a finer point on it: Ask VW what it's like to try and sell cars with false and doctored emissions data.

Or, more recently, Mitsubishi with false efficiency numbers.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't see how this hurts Steam to honor all refund requests in this case. I know they pay x$ for x # of licenses, but it isn't like this is the only game they have in their stable. This is a much, much, much larger problem for Hello Games and Sony. On top of that, say Steam buys the false advertising argument--can't they sue Hello/Sony to demand reimbursement of the funds Steam lost in purchasing those licenses?

If it is true that Hello Games lied about the product, then they lied to their distributors as well as the end customer.

 

[Sabrewings]

I don't see how this hurts Steam to honor all refund requests in this case. I know they pay x$ for x # of licenses, but it isn't like this is the only game they have in their stable. This is a much, much, much larger problem for Hello Games and Sony. On top of that, say Steam buys the false advertising argument--can't they sue Hello/Sony to demand reimbursement of the funds Steam lost in purchasing those licenses?

If it is true that Hello Games lied about the product, then they lied to their distributors as well as the end customer.

I don't run their business, but that's how I would handle it. Keep the customer happy so they'll keep buying tons of games from me they'll never play and settle it behind closed doors with HG.

 

[DigDog]

False advertising is claiming a product does or is one thing, but turns out that is completely wrong.

yes and no. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg in a newspaper, is illegal. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg on a youtube video, is not. the magazine must adhere to certain legal standards and when they publish your mgp claim, you need to sign a disclaimer that such information is accurate. NONE of that happens in 99% of the media which advertised NMS.

again, EU laws, the US might be somewhat different - although i suspect it isn't, since essentially you're using the same laws as we do ..

the same goes for VW. first off, they didn't doctor data, they build the car so that it would know when it was tested and reduce the power of the engine when the test ran.
The spiel is the same: the data was published in publications and ran in ads which are legally obliged to be accurate. Yet you can run the same ad on my podcast and you can claim anything you want, because my podcast is NOT legally bound to be accurate.

 

[zinfamous]

the same goes for VW. first off, they didn't doctor data, they build the car so that it would know when it was tested and reduce the power of the engine when the test ran.
The spiel is the same: the data was published in publications and ran in ads which are legally obliged to be accurate. Yet you can run the same ad on my podcast and you can claim anything you want, because my podcast is NOT legally bound to be accurate.

Um.

wait...what?

(It sounds to me like you are trying to draw a distinction between simply inventing numbers and something like p-hacking--which generally uses real data but manipulates it (usually through selective omission) to provide a false argument. Both are examples of the same kind of doctored data. VW engineering the car to defeat specific tests in a certain window of time and produce false and inaccurate reports that are known to be misleading is exactly the same as doctoring data. Surely you understand this, right?)

 

[HumblePie]

yes and no. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg in a newspaper, is illegal. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg on a youtube video, is not. the magazine must adhere to certain legal standards and when they publish your mgp claim, you need to sign a disclaimer that such information is accurate. NONE of that happens in 99% of the media which advertised NMS.

again, EU laws, the US might be somewhat different - although i suspect it isn't, since essentially you're using the same laws as we do ..

the same goes for VW. first off, they didn't doctor data, they build the car so that it would know when it was tested and reduce the power of the engine when the test ran.
The spiel is the same: the data was published in publications and ran in ads which are legally obliged to be accurate. Yet you can run the same ad on my podcast and you can claim anything you want, because my podcast is NOT legally bound to be accurate.

No in the US, if you make a youtube video advertising your product it must adhere to ALL advertising laws of the as managed by the FTC. So you are flat out wrong here when it comes to the US. The type of media doesn't matter at all when it comes to advertising here.

That doesn't mean mistakes can't be made, but there are measures that have to be taken when mistakes are made per the FTC.

If a claim was made to the public through ANY public media outlet, the claim has to be truthful or an immediate response as to why that claim was not correct as a correction needs to be made in the US. This is why most companies hire specific marketing firms and lawyers for making sure they don't screw themselves with incorrect statements that can be used against them later here in the US.

 

[Sabrewings]

yes and no. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg in a newspaper, is illegal. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg on a youtube video, is not. the magazine must adhere to certain legal standards and when they publish your mgp claim, you need to sign a disclaimer that such information is accurate. NONE of that happens in 99% of the media which advertised NMS.

again, EU laws, the US might be somewhat different - although i suspect it isn't, since essentially you're using the same laws as we do ..

the same goes for VW. first off, they didn't doctor data, they build the car so that it would know when it was tested and reduce the power of the engine when the test ran.
The spiel is the same: the data was published in publications and ran in ads which are legally obliged to be accurate. Yet you can run the same ad on my podcast and you can claim anything you want, because my podcast is NOT legally bound to be accurate.

If a store is advertising something, that is still liable. Steam has a business license and is using promotional material that shows features and content not available in the delivered product.

False advertising.

 

[Squeetard]

yes and no. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg in a newspaper, is illegal. falsly advertising your car does 100mpg on a youtube video, is not.

Again 100% wrong. We need to ignore this guy unless he posts sources for this BS.

 

[ginfest]

4 stinking hours of play and this: so please stop spreading rumors that Steam/Valve has changed and gives a rats ass about the customer getting ripped off!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message by Support Tech Rosie on Tue, Aug 30 2016 9:58
Thank you for inquiring about a refund for No Man’s Sky. There has been some recent confusion in the community about Steam refunds for this title. Our standard refund policy continues to apply to No Man’s Sky, and playtime continues to matter when refunding the product.

We’ve reviewed your playtime and unfortunately you do not qualify for a refund.

Please review our refund policy here:
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to give the game the benefit of the doubt.
And as usual, Steam takes a hard line. Remember all the warnings about steam when it first appeared?
They must need my $60.00 real bad so lard boy Newell can get more donuts.
Luckily there is nothing that Steam has that I can't live without. So keep feeding the beast all.

 

[zinfamous]

4 stinking hours of play and this: so please stop spreading rumors that Steam/Valve has changed and gives a rats ass about the customer getting ripped off!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message by Support Tech Rosie on Tue, Aug 30 2016 9:58
Thank you for inquiring about a refund for No Man’s Sky. There has been some recent confusion in the community about Steam refunds for this title. Our standard refund policy continues to apply to No Man’s Sky, and playtime continues to matter when refunding the product.

We’ve reviewed your playtime and unfortunately you do not qualify for a refund.

Please review our refund policy here:
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to give the game the benefit of the doubt.
And as usual, Steam takes a hard line. Remember all the warnings about steam when it first appeared?
They must need my $60.00 real bad so lard boy Newell can get more donuts.
Luckily there is nothing that Steam has that I can't live without. So keep feeding the beast all.

Well, the refund option is relatively new for steam, so it wasn't a topic of discussion years ago when steam first appeared....and it wasn't going to be discussed in general because IIRC, refunds for games at B&M stores didn't really exist either--outside of a damaged product, obviously. I think it's weird to criticize the general application of their refund policy which really is unique and frankly quite generous in the history of games.

 

[Sabrewings]

They doubled down on me:

Hello,

As explained, your purchase is not eligible for a refund.

We have provided all the available information and will be unable to assist you further with this issue.

If you have an unrelated problem, we will be happy to assist you.

This is quite unfortunate, but they won't get any more of my money. The only hard part with that is getting content for my Vive, but I think HTC runs their own store now too or will be soon.

 

[Aikouka]

It seems like this is just another case of a misusing an engineer as a public mouthpiece. Chances are that they wanted these features in the game, but unsurprising to anyone dealing with development, features get cut. The problem is that a PR-minded person would realize that you DO NOT answer with a definitive "yes" unless it's accurate at that time. In other words, "yes" should never be used in lieu of "yes, ...we're planning on implementing it soon." This debacle is the result of that.

Unfortunately, it was all of those features that actually made the game sound a bit more interesting and involved the player more. To make matters worse, they stated that they'll try to add features in upcoming patches and/or DLC, but that they may not be free as previously stated. When you've already lost a lot of goodwill, pulling a move like that will not help. They should simply state that a future, DLC-added feature will be free if it was ever mentioned as part of the game in a pre-release video.

 

[HumblePie]

They doubled down on me:



This is quite unfortunate, but they won't get any more of my money. The only hard part with that is getting content for my Vive, but I think HTC runs their own store now too or will be soon.

The thing is, they are required to.. but it's not like you can call the cops to force them to. Only recourse is to take them to court. You'll win, but it's a massive pain in the ass to do it. Not to mention you have to shell out a lot more initially to make it all back and usually a little bit extra because most violations of this sort include a punitive aspect to the restitution of the consumer. I'm speaking from experience here

Over $60 not worth it, but if they won't it is certainly worth it to complain to wherever you can. You can try the BBB, but Valve already has an F rating through them and doesn't look like they care about it.

http://www.bbb.org/alaskaoregonwest...rs/valve-corporation-in-bellevue-wa-27030704/

At least if you wanted to go to court you could do so with small claims. Chances are you will be awarded de facto when they fail to show up. As far as getting Valve to still pay up after that would be a pain though.

 

[aigomorla]

Guys less Testosterone and more Dopamine please.

I really dont mind when someone rants a storm at a company for unfair treatment.
I do mind if that unfair treatment, especially name calling is directed at another member.

So to a company, go ahead and rant, and complain, unless the thread is designated soley as a game discussion thread (Star Citizen).
However leave the name calling and baiting / harrasment to other members out of it please.

Moderator Aigo.

 

[Aikouka]

Only recourse is to take them to court. You'll win, but it's a massive pain in the ass to do it.

Didn't Valve add a line to its Terms of Service a couple years ago stating that you can't take them to court and that all grievances must be solved via arbitration? I recall some sort of hullabaloo over it....

 

[aigomorla]

I dont think ubisoft has issued any refunds even after this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNter0oEYxc

So i think honestly were lucky seeing refunds from no mans sky, as Ubisoft even had previews of what the game was supposed to be, yet failed to deliver at launch anything like what they previewed at E3.