No real buzz or excitement on new Apple Launches?

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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
i will let you in on a little secret. Wacom stylus does not have any batteries whatsoever. it is lightweight. it has over 2000 levels of pressure sensitivity and even tilt sensor. and when you flip it over, there's an eraser head....yes, just like a real pencil. and yes, the eraser head is pressure sensitive as well. that is why Wacom has always been the gold standard.

i have no idea why apple's stylus has a battery. maybe it has over 10,000 levels of pressure sensitivity? we'll see.

I will let you on a little secret, wacom has done over a 100 patents on digitizers and similar technologies. Wacom Patents since 2009

Since 1987 Wacom has had exclusive rights to several patents which is necessary to do a battery free stylus. The technology is called EMR for Electro Magnetic Ressonance. It has to do with the electronics on the tablet for they have a coil that generates a little electrical magnetic resonance which allows them to utilize a pen without battery for there is a little coil underneath the display screen which provides power.

Effectively your wacom stylus is being charged in a very similar way that some cell phones are charged without a cable being plugged. It is just utilizing physics to provide the power source.

Wacom on the benefits of EMR technology
Wacom explaining how EMR works
Digital Arts Online explains how 1 product from 1987 made such a big difference and launched wacom
Wikipedia on Resonance
Wikipedia on Electromagnetic Radiation

Now the original patent has expired long ago, but Wacom which was founded a few years earlier prior to that patent, and a single product was so successful and it allowed them to leapfrog and develop a business focusing on this technology and the profits allowed them to do the further R&D to do a lot more patents, and now those patents are the ones required to do a very good non battery stylus. It is the same logic on why Intel had to give away x86 since they were too small at the time when IBM demanded them to, but once they were big enough they can decide to stop cross licensing the patents. Now if you create a fancy technology that wacom or intel does not have you can stop them from using it unless you come up with a cross licensing agreement. Yet you need to be careful on how restrictive you are with your "no cross licensing" or "licensing for a fee" you are for the various governments can start antitrust. You are allowed to be a monopoly, you are allowed to have a 100% market share, but you are only allowed to do that if the market is competitive and if its not competitive it can't because you are applying pressures and tactics to make it impossible for the market to become competitive.

Thus you license out patents that allow competitors but keep all the good ones so you can have exclusive features.

So just like no one can make a competitive x86 cpu anymore without intel's and amd's permission (since intel has a lot of patents, and amd's x64) even though x86 patents are long dead, yet the marketplace is competitive enough and for the most part the various governments think Intel is not abusing their power too much in the years gone past and currently.

----

Now apple in the 80s and 90s has a lot of patents with stylus as well. This is because Apple released the Newton PDA from 1993 to 1998 and they started developing the newton in 1987. That said if they did not create any patents since 1995 all those patents would have expired since patents are good only for 17 years (old rules) but its now 20 years (new rules). I do not know which patents apple currently has on stylus and the such for all that gets technical and gets boring real quick.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
I don't get the points of these, especially given the snark they start they start out with.

It does nothing to counter the point that's quoted. Tilt angle is not new in stylus technology.
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
Yeah, that started off like he wanted to do a rebuttal but ended up just filling a page with random factoids?
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,460
775
126
All around fail by Apple. And it is hilarious that no one can identify the amount of RAM in the iPhone 6S and citing the need of 'teardown.'

IMHO it's only important to people who like to quote numbers. If it "only" has 1 gig, I'll still 100% be swapping out my 6+ for a 6s. Would I like 2 gigs? Sure, but it's not a deal breaker. My 6s does everything I want and the only lag I notice has nothing to do with lack of memory.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
IMHO it's only important to people who like to quote numbers. If it "only" has 1 gig, I'll still 100% be swapping out my 6+ for a 6s. Would I like 2 gigs? Sure, but it's not a deal breaker. My 6s does everything I want and the only lag I notice has nothing to do with lack of memory.

Ram on iPhones is not about lag, it's about tabs reloading in safari. It sucks that it took this long, but finally the iPhones will have 2GB.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,940
838
126
I will let you on a little secret, wacom has done over a 100 patents on digitizers and similar technologies. Wacom Patents since 2009

Since 1987 Wacom has had exclusive rights to several patents which is necessary to do a battery free stylus. The technology is called EMR for Electro Magnetic Ressonance. It has to do with the electronics on the tablet for they have a coil that generates a little electrical magnetic resonance which allows them to utilize a pen without battery for there is a little coil underneath the display screen which provides power.

Effectively your wacom stylus is being charged in a very similar way that some cell phones are charged without a cable being plugged. It is just utilizing physics to provide the power source.

Wacom on the benefits of EMR technology
Wacom explaining how EMR works
Digital Arts Online explains how 1 product from 1987 made such a big difference and launched wacom
Wikipedia on Resonance
Wikipedia on Electromagnetic Radiation

Now the original patent has expired long ago, but Wacom which was founded a few years earlier prior to that patent, and a single product was so successful and it allowed them to leapfrog and develop a business focusing on this technology and the profits allowed them to do the further R&D to do a lot more patents, and now those patents are the ones required to do a very good non battery stylus. It is the same logic on why Intel had to give away x86 since they were too small at the time when IBM demanded them to, but once they were big enough they can decide to stop cross licensing the patents. Now if you create a fancy technology that wacom or intel does not have you can stop them from using it unless you come up with a cross licensing agreement. Yet you need to be careful on how restrictive you are with your "no cross licensing" or "licensing for a fee" you are for the various governments can start antitrust. You are allowed to be a monopoly, you are allowed to have a 100% market share, but you are only allowed to do that if the market is competitive and if its not competitive it can't because you are applying pressures and tactics to make it impossible for the market to become competitive.

Thus you license out patents that allow competitors but keep all the good ones so you can have exclusive features.

So just like no one can make a competitive x86 cpu anymore without intel's and amd's permission (since intel has a lot of patents, and amd's x64) even though x86 patents are long dead, yet the marketplace is competitive enough and for the most part the various governments think Intel is not abusing their power too much in the years gone past and currently.

----

Now apple in the 80s and 90s has a lot of patents with stylus as well. This is because Apple released the Newton PDA from 1993 to 1998 and they started developing the newton in 1987. That said if they did not create any patents since 1995 all those patents would have expired since patents are good only for 17 years (old rules) but its now 20 years (new rules). I do not know which patents apple currently has on stylus and the such for all that gets technical and gets boring real quick.

So I guess samsung pays them a fee? The Note series does not rely on battery.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,705
117
106
Ram on iPhones is not about lag, it's about tabs reloading in safari. It sucks that it took this long, but finally the iPhones will have 2GB.

*Shrug*. The only reason why I would ever have a lot of tabs open on Safari or Chrome is if I forgot to swipe/close them.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
I don't get the points of these, especially given the snark they start they start out with.

It does nothing to counter the point that's quoted. Tilt angle is not new in stylus technology.
Yeah, that started off like he wanted to do a rebuttal but ended up just filling a page with random factoids?

He made a comment that literally started

Him-I will let you in on a little secret. Wacom stylus does not have any batteries whatsoever.
Me_-I will let you on a little secret, ...(wacom patents)... Since 1987 Wacom has had exclusive rights to several patents which is necessary to do a battery free stylus....(explains why)

I will try to behave better when snark is directed at me and not respond in kind, to demonstrate the rudeness of the original snark. You guys are right it does not add anything for the majority of the readers and it modifies how people act and enjoy reading a thread.
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
The point is that you were trying to be snarky but completely failed at it because you didn't actually refute his point that Apple could have just used Wacom technology like dozens of others have.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
So I guess samsung pays them a fee? The Note series does not rely on battery.

The Samsung S-Pen is Wacom Technology that Samsung does license. Wacom owns 85% of the Active Stylus market, either under their name which makes them about half their revenue, or they sell products that they make but other brands are allowed to call different things. This is similar to how many oems such as HP and Dell buy Synaptic Touchpads/Technology, and their are various models and you can have a good or a sucky touchpad depends on the implementation.

Wacom is important enough to samsung, that that samsung in 2013 invested in Wacom enough money to having voting power at the board. Not enough to control board meetings but enough to have a voice at the table and make sure they do no get screwed.

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/02/04/samsung-buys-stake-in-s-pen-collaborator/

Microsoft did a similar thing with the company N-Trig whose technology is in the surface pro 3 but not the surface pro 1 or 2 (wacom technology). Rumors last year ago that Microsoft but the entire company N-Trig, but it turns out they just bough all the active digitizer assets, aka the important technology that Microsoft wanted.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-to-pay-around-30-million-for-n-trig-sources-1430415194

Besides Wacom and N-Trig the other major player in active stylus is synaptics, the company that makes almost all the touchpads.

----

The point is that you were trying to be snarky but completely failed at it because you didn't actually refute his point that Apple could have just used Wacom technology like dozens of others have.

No Chrono that is not what happened, he was saying Apple in all its brilliance can't do what a smaller company does. Which was the built in battery. Yes Apple could have paid for Wacom styluses but decided not to do so. And the tilt factor Apple does too, and we do not know all the things like pressure sensitive levels and such until we see the device.

And I explained why with snark after he was rude/snarky to me.

I am now dropping this, for the conversation is now not productive and is just snark. You are ADDING to the snark ChronoReverse not removing it.
 
Last edited:

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
No Chrono that is not what happened, he was saying Apple in all its brilliance can't do what a smaller company does. Which was the built in battery. Yes Apple could have paid for Wacom styluses but decided not to do so. And the tilt factor Apple does too, and we do not know all the things like pressure sensitive levels and such until we see the device.
Please, do you think that Apple didn't just license N-Trig's tech instead of wholesale creating something from scratch and somehow not infringing on N-Trig's patents?

The fact is that if you tried to do a stylus, you'll infringe on one of the two big players' patents (Wacom is far huger of course) so you only license one or the other.

You bought into the snark and snarked back and completely failed to refute the point that Apple should have just licensed Wacom's tech or implemented it better like Microsoft did with their Surface.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
Aren't there 3rd party digitizer pens that work with any iPad/iPhone? I thought Adobe sold those in combination with its software. In any case I do not remember any tablet/smartphone accessory to date with this amusing (and potentially dangerous) charging mechanism. It is shocking that this product is from none other than Apple, given its usual emphasis on user experience and aesthetics.
 
Last edited:

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
im not sure I could have some up with a stupider way to charge that pen if I had tried (assuming that's real)
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
im not sure I could have some up with a stupider way to charge that pen if I had tried (assuming that's real)

apparently 15 sec charge is 30 minutes usage, but still we're going to see a ton of fucked up ports and broken ipens
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I don't know why they didn't copy their magsafe macbook power connectors. Snap the pencil on to charge, and it can even double as storage. Won't even look out of place if you don't have a pencil.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Yeah this has been the least interested I've been in a long time. I look at my 6 and see no reason to upgrade it. The gf has my old 5+ and has no desire to move to a bigger screen. A ridiculously large iPad doesn't do anything for me and couldn't care less about Apple TV. Will never care about the watch.

I think basically for me the smart phone market is now stagnant. The only thing I care about now is better battery life until someone can figure out a way to completely revolutionary the form factor which is likely a long way off.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Yeah this has been the least interested I've been in a long time. I look at my 6 and see no reason to upgrade it. The gf has my old 5+ and has no desire to move to a bigger screen. A ridiculously large iPad doesn't do anything for me and couldn't care less about Apple TV. Will never care about the watch.

I think basically for me the smart phone market is now stagnant. The only thing I care about now is better battery life until someone can figure out a way to completely revolutionary the form factor which is likely a long way off.

I'd say this is more a testament to how significant the iPhone 6 upgrade was than anything. It's not much different than most other "S" updates -- there's not much point to upgrading if you have the previous gen, but you'll be glad you held out if you have an older phone than that.

Apple TV is a pretty big update as I see it, possibly the biggest of the entire event. It's graduating the device from a "hobby" (as Apple so often put it) to a serious effort. Some of this is undoubtedly similar to what you get on Android TV / Roku and the like, but the sophistication of Siri (where you can search with very specific criteria using only your voice) seems to have rivals beat.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
The iPad Pro makes little sense to me. Why wouldn't you just get a macbook? it's only half a pound heavier and you don't have to pay for the keyboard. Comes with 256GB and has a USB port (kinda).
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
The iPad Pro makes little sense to me. Why wouldn't you just get a macbook? it's only half a pound heavier and you don't have to pay for the keyboard. Comes with 256GB and has a USB port (kinda).

That makes sense to a lot of people but there are those out there.....
 
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