Nocona Xeons vs. Prestonia

[NightFalcon]

I'm picking out a motherboard for a server and need some advice as far as the CPU goes. How big of an advantage is the Nocona core (800FSB) versus Prestonia (533FSB)? The price is the same, but variety of motherboards for Nocona right now is pretty bad, at least for what I need. If the advantages are big, then I'll consider it. Also, what is EMT 64?

 

[whorush]

nightfalcon,

first, EMT is intel's knock-off of AMD's 64 bit instruction set, AMD64, whcih is an extension to intel's old 32 bit x86 instruction set IA-32. everything i've read about it, says that EMT is a clumsy implementation that was tacked on to the P4 as an afterthought and rushed out the door. AMD64, is elegant and thought out.

so you can tell, i recommend an opteron over either the prestonia or the nocona. they also win the vast majority of benchmarks, run cooler, cost less and block some viruses.

also, the opteron scales much better than the XEON, since no matter how many xeons there are, they all share one bus, so the more xeons, the more deadlock. the opteron doesnt use a single shared bus, but many fast busses connected between different chips.

choose wisely, good luck.

 

[NightFalcon]

That's but the question wasn't about opterons...

 

[Gamingphreek]

The Nocona core is actually very good. It does compete very well with the Opterons however, it does produce more heat and power.

For your information, whorush, EMT64 and x86-64 are the EXACT same thing. Intel bought the -64 extension off of AMD and renamed it. There is not knock off here.

As for block some virus's are you talking about DEP. Woo that really does a lot, especially since Intels are now getting the exact same thing (with a different name).

For you last answer whorush... it is pretty true as intel shares their FSB between multiple processor, whereas AMD has multiple HT links. However intel is supposeldy releasing multiple FSB's some time in the near future.

I personally would reccomend the Opteron however between the 2 Xeons definately the Nocona Core.

-Kevin

 

[whorush]

it competes with opeteron no doubt, but like i said, opteron wins most benchs. but it scales reall poorly. one opteron normally beats one xeon. 2 opterons normally beat 2 xeons worse, 4 opterons normally beat 4 xeons even worse. for the anti-virus feature, buffer overruns are very common and blocking that is significant. besides if it didn't do much, why would intel be adding it to the xeon and why have they had it on the itanic for years?

also, EMT is not a clone of AMD64, its close, but not a clone. its different and more ugly. i looked around for some of the articles on this that i read a few months back, but couldnt find any. does anyone know any?

nightfalcon, i know the question wasn't about opterons, but if you are going to build a server, they would be better for you.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Opteron does win most of the benches, but not too much it it very competitive. one Opteron and one Xeon are very competitive. However when you go to multi processors the Opterons HT and onboard memory controller really begin to shine.

The anti-virus feature just prevents programs from using more memory than alocated. They use it on there Itanium's because the Itanium need to be rock solid, and cannot have errors, whereas us desktop users really wont take too much advantage of it.

EMT is a Clone. Intel bought -64 instructions off of AMD because they could use the IA64 instruction set because it uses the EPIC (Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing) architecture as compared to the x86 the avg consumer uses.

I agree the Opteron would be better as i said, however he asked about Xeons. He asks a question give him an answer to his question than a reccommendation.

-Kevin

 

[dug777]

shut the f#&k-up whorush

From what i can see u r just about the ultimate AMD fanboi, don't AMD have a forum for pple like u?

Sorry nightfalcon, totaaaalllly off-topic, just continuing my self-appointed task of getting whorush to shut-the-f*$k up and stop doing this

 

[LTC8K6]

AMD64, is elegant and thought out.

Yeah, Intel's designers didn't even bother to think about Nocona at all. They just slapped it together during an alcohol soaked weekend while on vacation in Tahiti.

Fortunately dug777, it's easy to spot people who haven't got a clue, like whorush.

 

[Thermalrock]

opteron > nocona > prestonia.

guess my answer is go nocona.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Nocona, and its associated platform(s), are superior to the older Prestonia.

It should be noted that EM64T is not EXACTLY compatible with x86-64. EM64T "does not support IOMMU in hardware" as indicated by this poignant article:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16879

EM64T is, in fact, inferior, especially when dealing with systems with large amounts of system RAM.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Nocona, and its associated platform(s), are superior to the older Prestonia.

It should be noted that EM64T is not EXACTLY compatible with x86-64. EM64T "does not support IOMMU in hardware" as indicated by this poignant article:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16879

EM64T is, in fact, inferior, especially when dealing with systems with large amounts of system RAM.

An IOMMU is a function of a chipset/memory controller, not an ISA. Current Nocona chipsets don't support the IOMMU but its primary impact are on devices that do not support native 64-bit DMA, including EIDE controllers, many non-high end network controllers. High-end SCSI controllers and network controllers (often found on a server), should usually support native 64 DMA and have no problems. Serial ATA controllers supporting the new AHCI standard should also have no problems.

 

[NightFalcon]

All right, thanks guys. Guess I'm going with Nocona. Now just to find the motherboard for it

 

[roachxp]

Try the Asus NCCH-DL great board with OC features. Locked PCi/AGP built in

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: dug777
From what i can see u r just about the ultimate AMD fanboi, don't AMD have a forum for pple like u?

Sorry nightfalcon, totaaaalllly off-topic, just continuing my self-appointed task of getting whorush to shut-the-f*$k up and stop doing this

Not to sound rude, but to me the ulitmate fanboy is the one choosing an inferior product even though the alternatives cost about the same. Also, I think it's just polite to recommend someone a better product, even though it wasn't part of the initial question. I'd recommend an Opteron over a Xeon (in most cases), just as I would recommend a P4 (or A64) over an AthlonXP any day of the week.

Now, NightFalcon, if you have a good reason to choose Xeon over Opteron, why don't you share it with us? I'm sure that would shut up the Opteron-guys! And if you don't have a good reason to go Xeon, then you deserve every Opteron recommendation you have gotten.

 

[LTC8K6]

recommend someone a better product

Better? By whose measure? Faster and cheaper doesn't necessarily mean better.

While I would not hesitate to use or recommend AMD, I would not say their chips are "better" than Intel's.

Besides, if you are going to recommend a "better" product, you should know what you are talking about, unlike whorush.

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Better? By whose measure? Faster and cheaper doesn't necessarily mean better.

No, but most of the time it does. The only other thing I could really think of that can influence ones decision is heat output. Or what would you use to measure the greatness of a processor?

Originally posted by: LTC8K6While I would not hesitate to use or recommend AMD, I would not say their chips are "better" than Intel's.

Why are people so afraid to speak out and say that a product is better? That doesn't mean your a fanboy! Sure, in single configs the race between Opteron and Xeon might be close, but from what I've gathered the Opteron seems to somewhat faster at typical server tasks (for example database operations). When it comes to SMP there's really no question that the Opteron is the faster and more efficient platform.

Anyway, I guess my initial point was that it's really stupid to not even give the alternatives a chance. The only thing that could happen is that you end up with better or cheaper stuff and that can't be a bad thing, right?

 

[skar]

At my workplace, we've got a dual opteron server, a dual-nocona and an old IBM x225 dual xeon(533 FSB, no hyperthreading) server all running mail server with mysql database, apache, qmail etc on Gentoo. Opteron is very fast overall thru compiling and database reads/writes, while the nocona is alos fast , but noticeably slower than opteron when installing software, remember everything in gentoo is installed from source. But, the slowest is the older xeon. So, opteron is good, as is nocona. So, if you want the best in compilation, database, opterons are better, while nocona is a close second, as you can't beat raw MHZ.

 

[Vette73]

If you are going to get Xeons then look at the Asus NCCH-DL board. I am running that and love it.

 

[NightFalcon]

All I'm going to say about the opteron issue is that if you want to make your own recommendation the polite thing to do is to answer the asked question first and then add your own opinion. But that's just the way I see it I am going with Nocona so thanks to everyone who answered that.

As for the motherboard, I've taken a look at the NCCH-DL already. Just like all the other Nocona boards for Xeons the 66 MHz PCI-X is a tradeoff. But since it's the only thing out there, right now I'm between Asus NCCH-DL and Supermicro X6DVL-G. I'm not sure if having 875 chipset is a good thing for a server. It does add to the speed, but what about stability?

 

[Vette73]

^

The NCCH-DL can use Regular ram and alos has PAT etc... It has been very stable for me and I am overclocking a pair of Xeons. I also have a SCSI card in a 64bit slot and a SATA hardrive while using the onboard sound and giga ethernet.

Also at less then $249, is really a great deal.

 

[NightFalcon]

Well when it comes to ram I'll be using ECC anyway, as for PAT I've had some bad experice with it on my P4C800-E board, very unstable. I'll research it a bit more though.

 

[Vette73]

Well if you look at the reviews, the 875 Xeons boards score higher then the FULL server chips.

But depends on your needs, but I have nothing but good things to say about the NCCH-DL.

 

[whorush]

i have been cursed off and been called impolite and stupid simply for suggesting an alternate solution to a problem. Does anyone think there is something wrong with that?

Nighthawk, you say that i was impolite since i didn't answer your question in the way you framed it. thats funny because i thought i WAS at least being nice when i suggested something that could save you a few hundred dollars, preform better, run cooler, and block some viruses. Meanwhile, isn't it impolite to ask for help and then criticize someone who volunteered their time and energy to give you good advice?

dug777, there's a word for the way you behave, its ?low.? also, you get real upset when i recommend AMD, but you never contribute anything to the debate?

I just don't get it, someone says I'm in between these 2 cars. You read it and think they both suck. You know a lot about the subject, the person asking does not. What do you do? Do you pick the better of the bad cars, knowing that the person will be buying a bad car? No, you say they both suck and you recommend something better. I just can't figure out all the verbal abuse.

For the rest of you, AMD64 != EM64T, i found this, but if i dig a little more i could find some more stuff. On top of that, everything i have read on the subject, says that EM64T < AMD64 and it seriously calls EM64Ts 64bit performance into question.
http://www.techspot.com/story11135.html

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: whorush
i have been cursed off and been called impolite and stupid simply for suggesting an alternate solution to a problem. Does anyone think there is something wrong with that?

Nighthawk, you say that i was impolite since i didn't answer your question in the way you framed it. thats funny because i thought i WAS at least being nice when i suggested something that could save you a few hundred dollars, preform better, run cooler, and block some viruses. Meanwhile, isn't it impolite to ask for help and then criticize someone who volunteered their time and energy to give you good advice?

dug777, there's a word for the way you behave, its ?low.? also, you get real upset when i recommend AMD, but you never contribute anything to the debate?

I just don't get it, someone says I'm in between these 2 cars. You read it and think they both suck. You know a lot about the subject, the person asking does not. What do you do? Do you pick the better of the bad cars, knowing that the person will be buying a bad car? No, you say they both suck and you recommend something better. I just can't figure out all the verbal abuse.

For the rest of you, AMD64 != EM64T, i found this, but if i dig a little more i could find some more stuff. On top of that, everything i have read on the subject, says that EM64T < AMD64 and it seriously calls EM64Ts 64bit performance into question.
http://www.techspot.com/story11135.html

'low'? I'd call hijacking every thread when someone asks a intel based question and ramming AMD propaganda down their throats, totally uninvited, and without answering their question ABOUT AN INTEL CHIP, somwhat 'lower' than telling u to shut-the-f#*k-up and stop it

I am aware that in this case i didnt contribute (and i apologised for it at the time), but i usually do contribute constructively, something that cannot be said for your 100% AMD biased, and to be honest, irrelvant given the nature of the thread topic, replies.

If you honestly want to help folks, i can see no problem with giving your 2c, but you end-up looking like a total AMD fanboy if you don't even bother addressing the topic...

(And again, sorry for being totally off topic nightfalcon )

 

[Thermalrock]

after contemplating a bit i figured itanium is the only way to go.