NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[ultimatebob]

If half of carriers show no symptoms, thats probably the best explanation as to how it spread so rapidly and completely across the globe.

It's also a reminder that the numbers of infected people that get reported in the news are total BS, and that the number of actual infected is much higher. Until we test everybody, we just can't be certain.

Oddly enough, this might be a silver lining. As the infection spreads, we're getting closer to the point of "herd immunity". Once everyone has the virus in their system, you don't really need to quarantine anymore.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The US has already confirmed almost a third of a million, and supposedly only 1 in 4 tests comes back positive. While some officially confirmed cases are likely clinical diagnoses, these numbers indicate that we have tested over a million. Testing was slow at first but it's ramping up and, IMO, has been moving at an acceptable pace for a while now.

Let's not forget that a lot of the setback was caused by bad tests from the CDC/FDA which we caught after rejecting the WHO tests. Big mistake, but China, Turkey, etc have had to reject and return millions of tests they received from other countries so it seems the Fed's concern wasn't unfounded.

Trump deserves a lot of criticism (especially for downplaying this) but he's not the one who rejected the tests and he's not the one responsible for the first batch of our own tests being bad. It's just unfortunate.

He also wasn't the one in February saying MAKE SURE TO GO TO CHINESE RESTAURANTS! Check out China town! Everything is A-OKAY!

Here's a bunch of morons saying those very things:

I said it before, our President is dumb, but people keep just using him as fodder for everything like it makes sense.

 

[Spacehead]

Seems like a lot of the tests China ran on their own people were bogus, which may be one of the reasons why they had "reinfections".

There were early reports, month(s) ago, about re-infections i think mostly from China. Since this has now spread over the globe is there any new evidence of re-infections in people? I haven't read anything in this thread about it.

On a different note: we need mass serology testing. There have got to be a bunch of people out there who have antibodies in their systems already. Pretty sure I'm one of them. If anyone wants this economy to fire back up and work, it's time to get people back in their jobs if they test positive for past infection.

There was a link someone posted recently about "viral lode" i think is the term. The amount of virus you were exposed to basically & possible cause for seeming to be re-infected.
Exposed to a small amount of virus & you might not build up enough resistance to fight off another round.
Will a serology test tell if you have enough antibodies in you to fight off another re-infection?

 

[CZroe]

Many states and several large states are still only capable of testing ~5k a day. Then there is the huge backlog of tests and some people getting results 5-10 days after testing. So no testing is still terrible and at the abysmal level in most places in the US.

Houston’s hospitals are bursting with suspected covid cases. They have more people hospitalized with covid symptoms than their official positive tests.

Can we test everyone as we'd like? No, not yet. Pretty much only Luxembourg and Iceland have come close to that out of the 200 regions affected. It's understandable that we have a long way to go but we are ramping up and it seems we are already responsible for the lion's share of testing these days.

My point is that we started out particularly bad compared to our peers because of the bad tests but that we have more than caught up. There's still a long way to go, but it doesn't mean we go on acting like the USA is lagging behind others in testing when we aren't. That's how we have already identified a quarter of the worldwide total and we've tested four times that. We still don't know how many Americans are truly infected but we have a better picture of it than Italy, France, Spain, etc.

I think Germany still has a better view within their population but they did have a head start and we are still bouncing back. It's time to stop acting like the USA lags the world in testing. Regardless, I don't see how it was ever appropriate to blame the head of state for an unfortunate situation he had no control over (bad tests). No one personally blames Xi for China's bad tests and the resulting numbers that can't be trusted.

Time to stop politicizing the US testing capability and focus on increasing it. The reality is that we need more testing but so does everyone else and we are doing relatively good at ramping up. We need to stay on track. Even though I would prefer that we also accepted the WHO tests back when they were offered, I'm glad we caught our own bad tests and the bad tests didn't get used and relied on like bad tests elsewhere were. Regardless, we've already fixed the test and have now tested many more Americans than the WHO's offer ever would have covered.

I'm not saying we shouldn't improve or that there isn't a lot of room for improvement all around. I'm saying we can't be stuck in the past and go on acting like the situation hasn't changed in weeks. We are still playing catch-up after an unfortunate set-back, but the reality is that the testing in the USA has greatly improved and that's why I spoke up when I saw the weeks-old view repeated almost verbatim.

We were set back weeks by the bad tests and that is why places like Houston are still the way they are. We can't rewind the clock so we will always be weeks behind where we would otherwise be if the tests were good from the start. I don't think that's reason to go on acting like testing is as slow as it was weeks ago. It's decidedly improved.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Top unions call for closure of all Amazon warehouses — experts say it would be disastrous

A nationwide closure would be crushing for the company, crippling its distribution network amid a spike in demand for Amazon’s delivery service.

money.yahoo.com

On one hand I would say only giving people paid sick time when diagnosed/doctor directed quarantine needs to change given the lack of testing but on the other I think Amazon, for better or worse, is an essential business at this time and really can't be shut down without larger consequences than this would solve

Top unions always call for stupid measures. They are just saying that in hopes of trying to form unionization for some of that sweet sweet union dues cash.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Will a serology test tell if you have enough antibodies in you to fight off another re-infection?

It'll tell if you have antibodies. Dunno otherwise.

 

[K1052]

We were set back weeks by the bad tests and that is why places like Houston are still the way they are. We can't rewind the clock so we will always be weeks behind where we would otherwise be if the tests were good from the start. I don't think that's reason to go on acting like testing is as slow as it was weeks ago. It's decidedly improved.

Is it better than a month ago? Yes. Is it close to adequate? No and won't be for a while.

The long delays (several days or up to a week) getting results back from the big commercial labs like Quest and LabCorp is highly problematic as is the uneven distribution of testing. High population states like CA and TX still testing far below where they need to be. The good news at least in the case of CA is that their relatively early lockdown seems to be having the desired effect of not filing up the hospitals rapidly.

The conversations about blame for our current situation and the improvements being made are not mutually exclusive despite what some politicians would prefer.

 

[ultimatebob]

Top unions always call for stupid measures. They are just saying that in hopes of trying to form unionization for some of that sweet sweet union dues cash.

To be honest, New Yorkers should probably boycott Amazon until they do a better job of cleaning up their warehouses in the area. Until they do a better job at cleaning them and protecting their workers, they're going to be another vector at spreading the virus.

 

[Kaido]

Another weird effect of the outbreak:

'Sell one of your yachts!': Sir Philip Green asks for taxpayer help

Furious Twitter users called on the British retail mogul to sell one of his three yachts, which includes the £122million Lionheart, or use some of his estimated £1.8billion fortune.

www.dailymail.co.uk

lol

 

[brianmanahan]

Another weird effect of the outbreak:

'Sell one of your yachts!': Sir Philip Green asks for taxpayer help

Furious Twitter users called on the British retail mogul to sell one of his three yachts, which includes the £122million Lionheart, or use some of his estimated £1.8billion fortune.

www.dailymail.co.uk

lol

MRW i'm on the dailymail and a US secret service sidebar ad appears

 

[echo4747]

even the top expert in covid-19 task force downplayed it a bit:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1246156119938080776

 

[CZroe]

Is it better than a month ago? Yes. Is it close to adequate? No and won't be for a while.

I'm not saying it's adequate. That will take time. We agree.

What I'm saying is that it not some major failing of the US because the US now leads the world in daily testing. I was responding to the mischaracterization that we were somehow particularly bad on that front when, in reality, we are literally doing more than any other country right now. I'm also saying that it never made sense to hang the earlier testing issues around the neck of a specific individual who had nothing to do with that.

It's not Trump's fault the tests were bad. It's not his fault this will take the time it will take now that the ball is rolling. Still, I keep seeing the opposite repeated in this non-political thread and decided to put an end to it by pointing out the improvements Muse seemed to be unaware of. Just a polite dose of reality.

The long delays (several days or up to a week) getting results back from the big commercial labs like Quest and LabCorp is highly problematic as is the uneven distribution of testing. High population states like CA and TX still testing far below where they need to be. The good news at least in the case of CA is that their relatively early lockdown seems to be having the desired effect of not filing up the hospitals rapidly.

Yes. Hopefully the loosening of bureaucratic restrictions on private testing will help with that. Then again, we have to hope these other tests don't end up being as bad as our first batch... or worse (China's faulty batches to Spain and Turkey).

The conversations about blame for our current situation and the improvements being made are not mutually exclusive despite what some politicians would prefer.

Agreed, but there has been a repeated attempt to lay the blame where it didn't belong and a lot of that seems to be from people who don't even realize that the testing situation has been steadily improving for weeks. I just want to point out that the US now leads the world in testing DESPITE the fact that we need a lot more testing. Even if we didn't lead the world in testing it wouldn't make sense to go on behaving as if we still trailed the civilized world in some way other than the unfortunate late start... a late start that was due to bad tests and strict regulations (not anything a particular politician did).

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Supposedly the whole do it yourself thing is entirely useless?

Healthcare worker I know on Facebook posted this.

 

[echo4747]

a little more info( about masks, decontamination, etc.) some may hopefully find helpful/interesting :

 

[Ichinisan]

Supposedly the whole do it yourself thing is entirely useless?

Healthcare worker I know on Facebook posted this.

View attachment 19162

Looks like bullshit to me. Who the hell made this?

It says the surgical mask (which doesn't even seal) blocks the same amount of viruses, but somehow lets slightly more bacteria, dust, and pollen through? Either these numbers came from someone's ass intentionally or they really fucked up the graphic.

 

[snoopy7548]

That image is wrong. Don't take advice from some pharmaceutical company based in Bangalore, and/or random images posted on Facebook. Jesus Christ.

Many hospitals are providing instructions for citizens to make and donate cloth face masks. They aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing, though you still need to follow social distancing guidelines.

Best Materials for Making DIY Face Masks - Smart Air

As a last resort, DIY masks provide more protection than nothing. Researchers tested household materials. These two materials captured the most particles.

smartairfilters.com

Contains results of a study from Cambridge University



Seems like a dish towel face mask, double-layered, with a 1 (or less) micron filter sandwiched between the layers would be OK. Replace the filter when you wash the mask, or simply make enough so they can be single-use. Just use cut-up squares of your basic high-filtration furnace filter.

 

[Muse]

The problem is that (similar to Iran) I'm pretty sure our military technologies would be able to detect and see their bullshit in some way... or with spies... and knowing our President he would have no problem pointing it out?

Or maybe I'm wrong and they have a reason to keep it secret, or perhaps China's death toll really isn't high.

I don't know what to believe at this point.

Trump does not want to advertise the breadth and scope of the pandemic any more than he has to. Therefore he figures he has no stake in unveiling China's coverup with respect to their death toll, he'd prefer to keep that a matter of speculation.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That image is wrong. Don't take advice from some pharmaceutical company based in Bangalore, and/or random images posted on Facebook. Jesus Christ.

Many hospitals are providing instructions for citizens to make and donate cloth face masks. They aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing, though you still need to follow social distancing guidelines.

Best Materials for Making DIY Face Masks - Smart Air

As a last resort, DIY masks provide more protection than nothing. Researchers tested household materials. These two materials captured the most particles.

smartairfilters.com

Contains results of a study from Cambridge University

View attachment 19164

Seems like a dish towel face mask, double-layered, with a 1 (or less) micron filter sandwiched between the layers would be OK. Replace the filter when you wash the mask, or simply make enough so they can be single-use. Just use cut-up squares of your basic high-filtration furnace filter.

Yes, but aren't all particles not equal? How does "1-Micron Particles" compare to bacteria infections vs. viral?

 

[Muse]

even the top expert in covid-19 task force downplayed it a bit:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1246156119938080776

Yeah, Fauci right there clearly frames himself the mouthpiece of the administration (with those foolhardy remarks). He's juggled that role with his other as a "top expert" and I've even heard him called (erroneously IMO) THE top expert. Bring your salt shaker to any video etc. of Dr. Fauci.

 

[mrblotto]

According to the stats, were now #1 for most tests....

Ummmm.....hooray?

 

[Ichinisan]

Yes, but aren't all particles not equal? How does "1-Micron Particles" compare to bacteria infections vs. viral?

Typical bacteria are usually hundreds of times larger than typical viruses. Microbes of any type usually hitch a ride in micro-droplets of moisture that are easily stopped by an N95 mask.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh, but I thought that the Chinese defeated the virus and everything was almost back to normal there now? Or, I guess that what their state owned media was trying to get you to believe with their phony test numbers they have been releasing.

My thought is they probably did force things back to normal. I bet you have lot of sick people working in factories right now. At very least those with mild symptoms. They probably don't really care about stopping the spread. Those that die, die, those that recover, keep working. At least that's my hunch.

 

[Muse]

in reality, we are literally doing more than any other country right now.

You were talking about testing.

Don't know why you are trying so hard to defend the USA's epidemic response. I think your statement there erroneous. I won't argue the point, but seems to me that several countries response (overall, and obviously testing had a great deal to do with it) makes the USA's look byzantine in comparison... say Taiwan's, SK, Singapore, Hong Kong even. Probably Iceland too.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Supposedly the whole do it yourself thing is entirely useless?

Healthcare worker I know on Facebook posted this.

View attachment 19162

Interesting, I had a hunch about cloth not being that effective but I would have figured it would at least provide a degree of protection. I guess the spaces are just too big. To make the paper for N95 is actually a complex process as the spaces need to be super tiny. Like microscopic levels. Even those ones are too big for the virus, but they are small enough that the virus still often gets lodged instead of making it through.

Wonder if there are some readily available materials that would work though. What about normal office grade paper? Trick is making something that has a proper seal around your face though. Can paper be molded with some kind of process? If you could press a N95 style mask from sheets of regular paper, all you need is some machine shops to make the molds and you can have people make lot of them at home. You can probably use a piece of electrical wire for the nose part to shape it.

 

[Muse]

...by pointing out the improvements Muse seemed to be unaware of. Just a polite dose of reality.

I never claimed testing hasn't improved in the USA. And I don't know why you insist on being Trump's PR man here. I do put at least some blame on him for the early testing failure, you keep saying he should not be blamed for that at all.

Look, he could have done the sane thing and appointed a covid-19 epidemic czar. He dropped the ball on that, eventually appointing his stooge VP to do that. And he still hasn't seen the light... he never will.

Yeah, testing is improving and as you say largely because the insane restrictions concerning licensing and forcing all tests to be submitted to the far-off (literally) CDC facilities were eventually rescinded. Thus we have a multifarious private sector driven testing scenario that has to be regarded as fractured by nature of the separateness of private sector entities. Yes, there's a ton of cooperation going on, but, say, 35 different entities (probably actually triple digits) all working in their own settings using different self-generated technologies, can't compete with a more organized approach that would have developed under a covid-19 czar.

We're doing great? Better than any other country on testing? Maybe that argument can be made in terms of number of tests or some other metric, but in terms of controlling the scope of the epidemic in the USA, it's not been successful. Trump claimed that anybody can be tested here a few weeks ago. He stood there grandstanding and waving his two hands like he always does and saying "it's beautiful." That was complete bullshit and I was thoroughly disgusted. Can I be tested now? Maybe, if I pay $2000 or something... ain't capitalism grand?

I was responding to the mischaracterization that we were somehow particularly bad on that front when, in reality, we are literally doing more than any other country right now.

Look at that sentence, @CZroe. There's a psychic disconnect there, or you can say you didn't use the grammar you intended. We blew it THEN. What we're doing now is not THEN. I mean WTF were you saying?