NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
Huh? Premise is wrong. "Current infections" doesn't tell you how many have already recovered and developed immunity. How does anyone not understand that?

Given people generally seem to take a month to recover (or die) from the virus (though, in fact, over 40 Diamond Princess passengers are still ill after 3 months), if a snapshot reveals only a 2.5% infection rate after 3 months, are you really suggesting it's likely that it's gone through 60% of the population in that preceding 3 months?

How would that work, mathematically?
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Given people generally seem to take a month to recover (or die) from the virus (though, in fact, over 40 Diamond Princess passengers are still ill after 3 months), if a snapshot reveals only a 2.5% infection rate after 3 months, are you really suggesting it's likely that it's gone through 60% of the population in that preceding 3 months?

How would that work, mathematically?
He didn't say anything about "60%."

He's just pointing out an obvious error. I don't know if it is an error with the person writing this up using the wrong words (most likely) or a procedural error with the research. Either way, it doesn't matter. What matters is that anyone seeing it knows to look deeper if they care.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Fauci says there is a chance the new virus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long -



New and improved hybrid viruses from different species? Good grief.

 
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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
Given people generally seem to take a month to recover (or die) from the virus (though, in fact, over 40 Diamond Princess passengers are still ill after 3 months), if a snapshot reveals only a 2.5% infection rate after 3 months, are you really suggesting it's likely that it's gone through 60% of the population in that preceding 3 months?

How would that work, mathematically?
The people who are "still ill" months later are almost certainly ill due to lung (and other organ) damage. If they were having that much trouble fighting the virus they should be dead I think.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
He didn't say anything about "60%."

He's just pointing out an obvious error. I don't know if it is an error with the person writing this up using the wrong words (most likely) or a procedural error with the research. Either way, it doesn't matter. What matters is that anyone seeing it knows to look deeper if they care.

60% is the level generally considered necessary for 'herd immunity'. If you 'look deeper' you'd consider the mathematics and ask how you could have achieved 'herd immunity', i.e 60 having had it and recovered when a snapshot shows only a 2.5% infection level after 3 months.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
60% is the level generally considered necessary for 'herd immunity'. If you 'look deeper' you'd consider the mathematics and ask how you could have achieved 'herd immunity', i.e 60 having had it and recovered when a snapshot shows only a 2.5% infection level after 3 months.
Ichinisan didn't say anything about herd immunity either. ...but, yes, "consider mathematics" and we know that a snapshot of current infections really wouldn't tell us much even when considering progress toward herd immunity. "Reaching" herd immunity would imply that we are not there yet and things would obviously slow as you got there.

He's right to point that out.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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As I posted in P&N, reaching herd immunity levels is not some magical bullet to stopping this pandemic and is actually a pretty horrific policy to pursue as scores more would have to be infected and potentially die.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

But even assuming that immunity is long-lasting, a very large number of people must be infected to reach the herd immunity threshold required. Given that current estimates suggest roughly 0.5 percent to 1 percent of all infections are fatal, that means a lot of deaths.

Perhaps most important to understand, the virus doesn’t magically disappear when the herd immunity threshold is reached. That’s not when things stop — it’s only when they start to slow down.

Once enough immunity has been built in the population, each person will infect fewer than one other person, so a new epidemic cannot start afresh. But an epidemic that is already underway will continue to spread. If 100,000 people are infectious at the peak and they each infect 0.9 people, that’s still 90,000 new infections, and more after that. A runaway train doesn’t stop the instant the track begins to slope uphill, and a rapidly spreading virus doesn’t stop right when herd immunity is attained
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
Fauci says there is a chance the new virus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long -


This is a possibility but not really a huge problem I don't think especially if more convenient ways of administering the vaccines at scale are deployed like the micro needle patches. Slapping one of those on every 6 months or year would be a trivial matter.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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This is a possibility but not really a huge problem I don't think especially if more convenient ways of administering the vaccines at scale are deployed like the micro needle patches. Slapping one of those on every 6 months or year would be a trivial matter.

This is what I heard early on during the Stern Show, believe it or not he had some friends who were pretty accomplished guys on his show.
To my understanding covid has more in common with the common cold that influenza. There could be a vaccine for the common cold but your body would forget it quickly and nobody wants to bother making it.
Regardless even if it is a yearly or semi yearly vaccination that would be a huge improvement and if we all stuck to it the virus could go extinct.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
So much for transparency and all the bull crap and lies from commie china -

But behind the scenes, it was a much different story, one of significant delays by China and considerable frustration among WHO officials over not getting the information they needed to fight the spread of the deadly virus, The Associated Press has found.

Despite the plaudits, China in fact sat on releasing the genetic map, or genome, of the virus for more than a week after three different government labs had fully decoded the information. Tight controls on information and competition within the Chinese public health system were to blame, according to dozens of interviews and internal documents

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
I do see a bit of a flaw in this

It's probably not required for every single person in the country to be inoculated to achieve eradication. The virus would eventually dead end in the unprotected part of the population presuming natural immunity lasts sufficiently long. Just require visitors and returning citizens to have proof of a current vaccination to avoid imported cases.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,574
12,875
136
It's probably not required for every single person in the country to be inoculated to achieve eradication. The virus would eventually dead end in the unprotected part of the population presuming natural immunity lasts sufficiently long. Just require visitors and returning citizens to have proof of a current vaccination to avoid imported cases.
Yeah, I suppose I do remember getting tested for TB when we'd move to another country when I was a kid.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Per Al Jazeera, Brazil has 1,473 deaths from the virus within the last 24 hours.
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
567
408
136
Per Al Jazeera, Brazil has 1,473 deaths from the virus within the last 24 hours.
Brazil has one of the, if not THE, worst rate in the world for percentage of positive cases VS conducted tests, with 63.94% of all tests coming back as positive, according to worldometer.

Here are some percentages of other countries:

- USA --- 9.72%
- Portugal --- 3.89%
- Sweden --- 15.59%
- Russia --- 3.73%
- Spain --- 7.07%
- UK --- 5.43%
- India --- 5.38%
- Mexico --- 33.65%


This is a chart i made a while back with infected cases in 13 countries, including Brazil, USA, Sweden, New Zealand and others (click for full picture):



The Y-axis in this chart is logarithmic base 2, starting @ 40 so every horizontal line represents a doubling of the previous one, but the purpose is to show how horizontal a country's curve is: the more horizontal it is, the better whatever measures that have been put into effect are working. Even though USA has a lot more cases than Brazil, Brazil has by far the worst curve of the chart.

There may be other countries like Mexico, India, Peru that have similar curves to Brazil's but i haven't included them in the chart so i can't say for sure.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Brazil has one of the, if not THE, worst rate in the world for percentage of positive cases VS conducted tests, with 63.94% of all tests coming back as positive, according to worldometer.

Here are some percentages of other countries:

- USA --- 9.72%
- Portugal --- 3.89%
- Sweden --- 15.59%
- Russia --- 3.73%
- Spain --- 7.07%
- UK --- 5.43%
- India --- 5.38%
- Mexico --- 33.65%


This is a chart i made a while back with infected cases in 13 countries, including Brazil, USA, Sweden, New Zealand and others (click for full picture):

View attachment 22351

The Y-axis in this chart is logarithmic base 2, starting @ 40 so every horizontal line represents a doubling of the previous one, but the purpose is to show how horizontal a country's curve is: the more horizontal it is, the better whatever measures that have been put into effect are working. Even though USA has a lot more cases than Brazil, Brazil has by far the worst curve of the chart.

There may be other countries like Mexico, India, Peru that have similar curves to Brazil's but i haven't included them in the chart so i can't say for sure.
Yeah, but are they only testing people they have reason to believe may have it?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
And so is every other country, no?
No. I can get tested for free today with no reason and my state encourages it because they wanted to get testing numbers up. Many smaller countries like Iceland and Luxembourg had huge percentages of per-capita testing very early on. China has been testing entire cities.
 
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