NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[sactoking]

I know, right? I mean, you had to go all the way to the second search result to find this article in Medium that says "Restaurants are by far the riskiest, about four times riskier than the next category, which are gyms and coffee shops, followed by hotels". But that's just what some journalist thinks about some scientific question.

Oh wait, that's a quote from "Jure Leskovec, PhD, an associate professor of computer science at Stanford University."

But that's not in the context of an actual study with specifics mentioned. Oh wait, it links directly to the study his quote is based on.

Yeah, but he's a computer scientist, so what does he know about infectious diseases. Oh wait, his paper's other authors also include a sociologist and someone from the Department of Preventive Medicine of Northwestern University.

And the whole thing is peer reviewed and accepted for publication.

But it's totally not trustworthy or anything.

 

[Kaido]

Here's an interesting idea:

Pay people $1,000 to take coronavirus vaccine and avoid 'a lot of angst': Economist

 

[K1052]

Pfizer submitting for auth today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329760934273945601

 

[ponyo]

At least 6 months immunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/20/cov...or-at-least-six-months-oxford-study-says.html

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I know, right? I mean, you had to go all the way to the second search result to find this article in Medium that says "Restaurants are by far the riskiest, about four times riskier than the next category, which are gyms and coffee shops, followed by hotels". But that's just what some journalist thinks about some scientific question.

Oh wait, that's a quote from "Jure Leskovec, PhD, an associate professor of computer science at Stanford University."

But that's not in the context of an actual study with specifics mentioned. Oh wait, it links directly to the study his quote is based on.

Yeah, but he's a computer scientist, so what does he know about infectious diseases. Oh wait, his paper's other authors also include a sociologist and someone from the Department of Preventive Medicine of Northwestern University.

And the whole thing is peer reviewed and accepted for publication.

But it's totally not trustworthy or anything.

Again - Are they taking account of covid-like restrictions? Are they limited to 50 or 75% capacity? Are they accounting for groups of people that go with people of different households - or just people that go out to eat that are a part of the same household?

The answer is no. No they do not. They have zero clue - because studies like that actually take time and data, none of which anyone has. So I'll ask it again, what justification does anyone have in saying that restaurants are more dangerous than a gym, a library, a liquor store, a retail store, etc?

The study linked has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with restaurants. It has to do with cell-phone tracking of how people move around. This has nothing to do with the concept of a family of 4 going to a restaurant, getting a table in the corner and no else is near them by even 15ft.

Do you read the stuff you link, or just try to devise ways to act as-if you're right?

 

[thestrangebrew1]

As far as curfews go, the gov enacted it but my county, and the sheriffs adjacent to my county have blatantly stated they are not going to enforce it. IDK how this is possible that the gov has given an order, and the Sheriffs can outright ignore it. This is the 2nd time our sheriff said they weren't going to enforce an order from the governor. I think it was the mass gatherings stuff the governor banned earlier in the year. How can the sheriff just ignore an order from the governor? What's the point of issuing orders if they're not going to be enforced?

 

[sactoking]

Again - Are they taking account of covid-like restrictions? Are they limited to 50 or 75% capacity? Are they accounting for groups of people that go with people of different households - or just people that go out to eat that are a part of the same household?

The answer is no. No they do not. They have zero clue - because studies like that actually take time and data, none of which anyone has. So I'll ask it again, what justification does anyone have in saying that restaurants are more dangerous than a gym, a library, a liquor store, a retail store, etc?

The study linked has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with restaurants. It has to do with cell-phone tracking of how people move around. This has nothing to do with the concept of a family of 4 going to a restaurant, getting a table in the corner and no else is near them by even 15ft.

Do you read the stuff you link, or just try to devise ways to act as-if you're right?

Actually, if you read the study, which you didn't, you'd see that all of your statements are wrong. You just clicked through and glanced at it and saw that it was about "mobility" and dismissed it. They do take into account COVID restrictions. "Reduced maximum occupancy" is addressed on PAGE 2 of the paper. As to the justification, well, the whole thing is based on relative infection risk so the fact that the results are the relative infection risks are higher for bars and restaurants explicitly provides justification for saying they're more dangerous.

I mean, the whole thing essentially says "Where you go, how many people are there and how often you go matter."

But similar things have also been said by the CDC. And 27 epidemiologists. And the Texas Medical Association. And Healthline (using their own data).

But you go on chasing at your nargles and wrackspurts, looking for that hard scientific data that you need in order to change your mind that you also claim doesn't exist yet.

 

[K1052]

As far as curfews go, the gov enacted it but my county, and the sheriffs adjacent to my county have blatantly stated they are not going to enforce it. IDK how this is possible that the gov has given an order, and the Sheriffs can outright ignore it. This is the 2nd time our sheriff said they weren't going to enforce an order from the governor. I think it was the mass gatherings stuff the governor banned earlier in the year. How can the sheriff just ignore an order from the governor? What's the point of issuing orders if they're not going to be enforced?

Most of the counties will abide and sheriffs like this are nothing really new. A bunch of them style themselves as arbiters of what is constitutional or not and often conduct their enforcement accordingly. They typically stop short of hard felonies these days because they can still end up in state prison but there are a few high achievers:

A Florida GOP sheriff allegedly ordered the arrest of his mistress. Now he’s the one facing charges.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/14/sheriff-arrested-florida-jail/

In my experience sheriffs are remarkably unaccountable though and certainly before cell phones could get away with almost anything. We did a lot of business in rural parts of the midwest and the last thing you ever wanted to do is get on their bad side. Of course these powers were often abused and even basically naked corruption not that unusual.

 

[Muse]

I know, right? I mean, you had to go all the way to the second search result to find this article in Medium that says "Restaurants are by far the riskiest, about four times riskier than the next category, which are gyms and coffee shops, followed by hotels". But that's just what some journalist thinks about some scientific question.

Oh wait, that's a quote from "Jure Leskovec, PhD, an associate professor of computer science at Stanford University."

But that's not in the context of an actual study with specifics mentioned. Oh wait, it links directly to the study his quote is based on.

Yeah, but he's a computer scientist, so what does he know about infectious diseases. Oh wait, his paper's other authors also include a sociologist and someone from the Department of Preventive Medicine of Northwestern University.

And the whole thing is peer reviewed and accepted for publication.

But it's totally not trustworthy or anything.

I tend to trust a scientist more than a non-scientist, everything else being equal. Training in one science gives a person a perspective that untrained people usually sorely lack:

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

 

[Denly]

I still think it's ridiculous they are even letting people travel. They are a big part of the problem. When you have a region that is doing well, it only takes one person traveling to change that overnight and cause a bunch of infections. People are selfish assholes. Loosing the "right to travel" is a very small price to pay to be able to get more local freedom.

a frd told me last night her kid just flew to BC over the weekend to pickup an bottle of whisky to flip here in Ont, how irresponsible/stupid that was.

 

[Muse]

As far as curfews go, the gov enacted it but my county, and the sheriffs adjacent to my county have blatantly stated they are not going to enforce it. IDK how this is possible that the gov has given an order, and the Sheriffs can outright ignore it. This is the 2nd time our sheriff said they weren't going to enforce an order from the governor. I think it was the mass gatherings stuff the governor banned earlier in the year. How can the sheriff just ignore an order from the governor? What's the point of issuing orders if they're not going to be enforced?

Arrest the scofflaw sheriff.

 

[snoopy7548]

Again - Are they taking account of covid-like restrictions? Are they limited to 50 or 75% capacity? Are they accounting for groups of people that go with people of different households - or just people that go out to eat that are a part of the same household?

The answer is no. No they do not. They have zero clue - because studies like that actually take time and data, none of which anyone has. So I'll ask it again, what justification does anyone have in saying that restaurants are more dangerous than a gym, a library, a liquor store, a retail store, etc?

The study linked has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with restaurants. It has to do with cell-phone tracking of how people move around. This has nothing to do with the concept of a family of 4 going to a restaurant, getting a table in the corner and no else is near them by even 15ft.

Do you read the stuff you link, or just try to devise ways to act as-if you're right?

Common sense, Broceritops Rex.

 

[Svnla]

<snip>

In my experience sheriffs are remarkably unaccountable though and certainly before cell phones could get away with almost anything. We did a lot of business in rural parts of the midwest and the last thing you ever wanted to do is get on their bad side. Of course these powers were often abused and even basically naked corruption not that unusual.

Down here in small towns, you don't even need to get on their bad side. Them cops could rob you blind by abusing the law.

Talk about highway robbery, especially toward blacks and hispanics from dirty cops.

Driving through Tenaha, Texas, doesn't pay for some - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

In other news, Japan and S. Korea are nervous about rising cases of infection.

 

[ponyo]

Down here in small towns, you don't even need to get on their bad side. Them cops could rob you blind by abusing the law.

Talk about highway robbery, especially toward blacks and hispanics from dirty cops.

Driving through Tenaha, Texas, doesn't pay for some - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

In other news, Japan and S. Korea are nervous about rising cases of infection.

South Korea is not really concerned about corona cases. They've handled the virus extremely well other than in the very beginning. They had couple major outbreaks here and there because of crazy religious groups and club party goers but they contained it. Considering South Korea is one of the few countries that didn't completely shutdown or close their borders, it's pretty remarkable. Tourists can travel in and out of South Korea freely. They have to quarantine for 14 days but that's still better than all the countries that simply closed their borders to outsiders and won't let you in at all.

In fact, South Korea is so confident in their corona containment ability they haven't rushed to sign vaccine contracts with likes of Pfizer and Moderna. They said they can wait for better prices and see if the vaccines are really safe and effective. So they're ok with allowing other countries to be the guinea pig and test out the vaccine in mass numbers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-co...can-wait-until-the-price-is-right-11605694383

 

[Svnla]

South Korea is not really concerned about corona cases. They've handled the virus extremely well other than in the very beginning. They had couple major outbreaks here and there because of crazy religious groups and club party goers but they contained it. Considering South Korea is one of the few countries that didn't completely shutdown or close their borders, it's pretty remarkable. Tourists can travel in and out of South Korea freely. They have to quarantine for 14 days but that's still better than all the countries that simply closed their borders to outsiders and won't let you in at all.

In fact, South Korea is so confident in their corona containment ability they haven't rushed to sign vaccine contracts with likes of Pfizer and Moderna. They said they can wait for better prices and see if the vaccines are really safe and effective. So they're ok with allowing other countries to be the guinea pig and test out the vaccine in mass numbers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-co...can-wait-until-the-price-is-right-11605694383

Now I am not saying Japan and SK are in the same level of infection and death as the US, Brazil, India, etc.. but the numbers are higher now....(the date of the article was a week ago).

South Korea has reported its biggest daily jump in COVID-19 cases in 70 days as the government began fining people who fail to wear masks in public.
The 191 new cases Friday represented the sixth consecutive day above 100 and was the highest daily increase since Sept. 4, when authorities reported 198 new infections.

Asia Today: S. Korea begins fining people not wearing masks (apnews.com)

Just saw on CNA news that SK Health Ministry could raise the restriction to another level if the next two days' number of infection is higher than 200. Hong Kong is shutting down elementary schools for now.

 

[K1052]

South Korea is not really concerned about corona cases. They've handled the virus extremely well other than in the very beginning. They had couple major outbreaks here and there because of crazy religious groups and club party goers but they contained it. Considering South Korea is one of the few countries that didn't completely shutdown or close their borders, it's pretty remarkable. Tourists can travel in and out of South Korea freely. They have to quarantine for 14 days but that's still better than all the countries that simply closed their borders to outsiders and won't let you in at all.

In fact, South Korea is so confident in their corona containment ability they haven't rushed to sign vaccine contracts with likes of Pfizer and Moderna. They said they can wait for better prices and see if the vaccines are really safe and effective. So they're ok with allowing other countries to be the guinea pig and test out the vaccine in mass numbers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-co...can-wait-until-the-price-is-right-11605694383

I'm suspecting the wait is more about the flu vaccine death scare last month which caused a panic, even though it appears the deaths were unrelated to the vaccine.

The cost is negligible in the long run. Korea can readily afford the 1.5-2B USD it would cost to secure doses for their population.

 

[Scarpozzi]

At least 6 months immunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/20/cov...or-at-least-six-months-oxford-study-says.html

Which makes me want to lag on getting vaccinated a little so I can be more past the early adopters and more in the 'herd'... Maybe that logic is flawed, but it will be easier to continue to claim to my employer that the risk is high and I need to stay home more now than later...if that makes sense. I'm one of the few that hasn't been in the office since July.

 

[K1052]

Pfizer has submitted their EUA request

https://twitter.com/x/status/1329875822468083712

 

[manly]

South Korea is not really concerned about corona cases. They've handled the virus extremely well other than in the very beginning. They had couple major outbreaks here and there because of crazy religious groups and club party goers but they contained it. Considering South Korea is one of the few countries that didn't completely shutdown or close their borders, it's pretty remarkable. Tourists can travel in and out of South Korea freely. They have to quarantine for 14 days but that's still better than all the countries that simply closed their borders to outsiders and won't let you in at all.

I would disagree with your characterization. SK is a prime success story because they were and are so concerned with Covid-19 cases, and had developed the capability of swift reaction to discovery of new cases. I won't disagree with the overall point you're making that SK has had one of the best overall responses, despite the clusters from the massive cult and clubbers this summer.

In others news, it was a false alarm in South Australia:

Australian man's 'lie' caused state coronavirus lockdown

The shock announcement came just two days after the state government ordered people to stay at home and shut many businesses.

www.nbcnews.com

Which makes me want to lag on getting vaccinated a little so I can be more past the early adopters and more in the 'herd'... Maybe that logic is flawed, but it will be easier to continue to claim to my employer that the risk is high and I need to stay home more now than later...if that makes sense. I'm one of the few that hasn't been in the office since July.

Also, depending on your patience level, you might be able to pick from several vaccines. My best friend is not an anti-vaxxer but he refuses to take an mRNA vaccine because he considers the technology completely uncharted waters.

 

[K1052]

Also, depending on your patience level, you might be able to pick from several vaccines. My best friend is not an anti-vaxxer but he refuses to take an mRNA vaccine because he considers the technology completely uncharted waters.

I'm not personally willing to wait until late 21 or into 22 for a recombinant subunit vaccine.

 

[jpiniero]

Also, depending on your patience level, you might be able to pick from several vaccines. My best friend is not an anti-vaxxer but he refuses to take an mRNA vaccine because he considers the technology completely uncharted waters.

Hasn't the AZ/Oxford vaccine had issues? That's why they are only at Phase 2.

 

[K1052]

Hasn't the AZ/Oxford vaccine had issues? That's why they are only at Phase 2.

They are in phase 3. Trial got paused due to an event in the vaccine group, somebody had a nervous system issue. They should know pretty soon in the UK trial.

 

[Brainonska511]

Also, depending on your patience level, you might be able to pick from several vaccines. My best friend is not an anti-vaxxer but he refuses to take an mRNA vaccine because he considers the technology completely uncharted waters.

I have yet to see any plausible biological rationale for why an mRNA-based vaccine would be bad or dangerous.

 

[K1052]

I have yet to see any plausible biological rationale for why an mRNA-based vaccine would be bad or dangerous.

Me either. If somebody has something specific (non-kooky) I’d be interested to read it. It’s RNA in encased in a lipid not Borg nanotechnology.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So obviously vaccines are going to start distribution shortly. Obviously there will be some order of magnitude as far as priority - I imagine the likes of nurses/doctors, military, and older folks will take precedence....

But if you... as a normal citizen want to get priority... should you schedule an appointment with your doctor ahead of time in anticipation or something?