NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,201
10,063
136
The problem with scientists is that their vision is ultimately narrow. If policy was created solely from their recommendations everyone would be living in a god damn bubble, they have no business being in PR.

That's why you have politicians who evaluate and look at the macro view of the whole situation.
But if we did live in a bubble for a relatively short time we could get rid of Covid19. At least that was a possibility for the original strain, not sure if it still holds true, though i don't know why it wouldn't.
Too bad it can't really happen.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
It's not the message that I have a problem with, it's the messenger. In the last 18 months, this guy has gone from saying:

You don't need to wear a mask (Because none are available anyway, and we don't want to cause a panic)
Actually, you should probably wear a mask
You NEED to wear a mask!
Actually, you probably only need to wear it indoors
Maybe you should probably wear two masks?
Never mind, you don't need to wear a mask indoors anymore if you're vaccinated (Because we need to get more people to get those shots!)
Actually, you should wear a mask indoors even if you're vaccinated

Doesn't this guy understand the importance of consistent messaging? By changing the guidelines constantly, he's lost all credibility and quite frankly he's pissing people off. When the words, "OK, you actually need a third shot, but this will probably be the last one, OK?" come out of HIS mouth, it actually strengthens my belief that annual COVID booster shots are going to be a thing.

The CDC probably should have been telling us to wear masks all along, but it's probably too late for that now.

What I'd like to hear NOW is something more along the lines like "Sorry about all that bad advice from Dr. Fauci. He's a moron, we fired him. Here's our new head medical expert, with some new guidelines..."
You are missing a whole shit ton of nuance on those different mask statements.

The only one I really think he flobbered was when he was talking about double masking even when vaxxed, but that was due to being worried about additional spread with Beta and before we had good data on the vaccine and transmission.

There is a reason scientist aren't usually spokesmen.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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You don't need to wear a mask (Because none are available anyway, and we don't want to cause a panic)
^At this point we didn't know the transmission method, and hospitals didn't need a run on masks because of idiots.
Actually, you should probably wear a mask
^At this point we were pretty sure it was primarily airborne/particulate, and masks were likely to be pretty effective.
You NEED to wear a mask!
^At this point we knew it was particulate, and masks were very effective, based on actual data.
Actually, you probably only need to wear it indoors
^At this point we determined it had poor transmission in outdoor environments due to air circulation. We also made a few discoveries in environments with good air circulation (like commercial aircraft).
Maybe you should probably wear two masks?
^News to me.
Never mind, you don't need to wear a mask indoors anymore if you're vaccinated (Because we need to get more people to get those shots!)
^Was entirely accurate, until *drumroll*
Actually, you should wear a mask indoors even if you're vaccinated
^Delta, FUCK YOU. Masks everywhere.

Quit whining because reality doesn't fit your narrative. Just wear a damn mask.

They did recommend double masks at one point (because studies showed it boosted the effectiveness of say cloth masks). I think that was around the early part of 2021.

And yes, they changed recommendations based on situation and evidence, but obviously too many peoples' brains are fucking broken and any change makes their brains incapable of understanding anything.

Wait ... what?

Oh, you're not familiar with that poster? What surely you couldn't prove that passports existed prior to 9/11, right? Like I'm sure that's not an easily researched thing that could be found within a minute searching on the Internet, right? But where's the fun in that when you can just spout hilariously stupid shit as though its fact. After all his beliefs are 100% to everyone else's facts, combined!
 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Thoughts on this without going full P&N?


To me in this case the way it is described it sounds fair.
We are not talking about an emergency room visit, sounds like regular Dr visits.
She has patients who are compromised and are at high risk of COVID. She will still service the unvaccinated but needs to be telemedicine.
I assume she doesn't see young children.
If it's protecting the chemo patients, then she should have stopped servicing flus and colds years ago because even those things can kill or at least run up the bills.
Delta also is endemic amongst the vaccinated.

 
Reactions: gill77

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
813
250
136
Pfizer, Merck launch new trials of oral COVID-19 drugs

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...patients-oral-covid-19-drug-trial-2021-09-01/

Merck said in June that the U.S. government agreed to pay about $1.2 billion for 1.7 million courses of molnupiravir, if it is proven to work and authorized by regulators. The company said it expected to file for U.S. emergency use authorization of molnupiravir in the second half of 2021 at the earliest.

Pfizer said in July if the PF-07321332 trial was successful, it would file for a potential emergency use authorization in the fourth quarter.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
136
Regular passports are a good example of how these things become permanent though. They were never a thing before 9/11 then suddenly they are, and are required to travel anywhere. Though at least they are only really for travel so I don't think they're as bad as the vaccine passport where it will eventually be needed just in order to live life. But this is how the government gets us. They add these things to our lives a bit at a time so that people don't really care or notice what's happening.

Wait ... what?


On first reading I assumed that RS was just being sarcastic/joking.

But, when I think about it, if I recall, there was a post-911 change, with regard to _domestic_ flights. Previously you only needed a passport if you were crossing an international border, then they made it so you needed it for any flight.

Maybe I've mis-remembered that, though I think the rule change actually happened here as well, not just the US.

Anyway, I don't have any strong opinion either way about 'vaccine passports', to be honest. The arguments for and against seem finely-balanced to me.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,802
126
On first reading I assumed that RS was just being sarcastic/joking.

But, when I think about it, if I recall, there was a post-911 change, with regard to _domestic_ flights. Previously you only needed a passport if you were crossing an international border, then they made it so you needed it for any flight.

Maybe I've mis-remembered that, though I think the rule change actually happened here as well, not just the US.

Anyway, I don't have any strong opinion either way about 'vaccine passports', to be honest. The arguments for and against seem finely-balanced to me.
You don't need a passport for domestic flights.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
136
You don't need a passport for domestic flights.

Probably did misremember then. Googling it it seems one does have to have 'photo ID' (a passport being a possible form) for UK domestic flights - I think maybe that was the post-911 rule-change I remember. Don't know, though, as I also found this - which suggests the UK system is still not exactly flawless.


Easyjet's rule seems strict and clear: its website and tickets insist "all passengers provide photographic ID at check-in on all flights, including domestic services". So when Arnie Wilson, a magazine editor from Haywards Heath, turned up at Gatwick this month for a flight to Edinburgh only to realise he had neither his passport nor his driving licence, he started to panic.

Check-in staff confirmed the requirements for photo ID but, as Wilson began to make plans to have his passport couriered from home, they offered a helpful alternative - he could make his own.



"They suggested I go to the railway station within the terminal, buy a season ticket and with it get a photocard, which they'd then accept as ID," Wilson said. "In fact, it was even easier and didn't cost a penny. Southern Rail gave me a photocard and sent me upstairs to the public photo booth. I asked if I needed to come back to the ticket office with the photos; they said, no, I should just fill in the card myself then seal down the plastic covering."

Easyjet accepted the DIY identity without question. Wilson added: "Of course I was glad to get the flight but I couldn't believe it - what's the point of Easyjet asking for photo ID if you can get it done like this, and their staff even tell you how to do it? Obviously it was only a domestic flight, but then so were all the planes hijacked on 9/11."

A spokesman for the airline said the requirement for photo ID was introduced to enhance security after the attacks on New York but that rail photocards are acceptable on domestic flights (even though they are not listed as such on the airline's website). "Check-in staff also have extensive training in assessing whether a passenger is a security risk," the spokesman said.

The case highlights the bizarre situation regarding domestic flights in the UK. In 2006 the government passed controversial legislation giving police access to passenger-name records on domestic flights. The move, part of the Police and Justice Act, prompted the then Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman, Alistair Carmichael, to complain that "the government is building a surveillance infrastructure unparalleled in the free world". Unparalleled, perhaps, but also deeply flawed.

Unlike in the United States, there remains no legal requirement for airlines to ask for photo ID on domestic flights, so the carriers have decided their own policies, which vary significantly. Ryanair demands passport or driving licence, Easyjet accept railcards, and British Airways asks for no photo ID at all. Without photo ID, anyone can fly using a made-up name, at a stroke rendering all security "watch lists" of suspected terrorists - as well as the new legislation - useless.

Sorry - way, way off-topic.


Briging it back on topic, the biggest problem with vaccine passports is probably the administrative effort that would be needed to get such a system working - and seems the chances are it would end up not working very well.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Thoughts on this without going full P&N?


To me in this case the way it is described it sounds fair.
We are not talking about an emergency room visit, sounds like regular Dr visits.
She has patients who are compromised and are at high risk of COVID. She will still service the unvaccinated but needs to be telemedicine.
I assume she doesn't see young children.
Our pediatrician made it very clear when we met him that he will not take anti-vaxxers as patients. I am sure that is somewhat common among peds. I really have no issue with family doctors doing the same. Emergency care is different, of course.
 
Reactions: Captante

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Probably did misremember then. Googling it it seems one does have to have 'photo ID' (a passport being a possible form) for UK domestic flights - I think maybe that was the post-911 rule-change I remember. Don't know, though, as I also found this - which suggests the UK system is still not exactly flawless.




Sorry - way, way off-topic.


Briging it back on topic, the biggest problem with vaccine passports is probably the administrative effort that would be needed to get such a system working - and seems the chances are it would end up not working very well.
In the US there is RealID that has been deferred for years and still isn't required.

They also made international more strict where having a passport made your life much easier for cruising, and visiting Canada and Mexico. Not sure of the exact changes, because that was before I ever went international and I got a passport for my first trip.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
In the US there is RealID that has been deferred for years and still isn't required.

They also made international more strict where having a passport made your life much easier for cruising, and visiting Canada and Mexico. Not sure of the exact changes, because that was before I ever went international and I got a passport for my first trip.


You 100% need a passport for Mexico now to the best of my knowledge and you may well need one to get back into the US as well.

For Canada if you fly in you'll need a passport but I believe that an "enhanced license" will still work if you enter by land from a US border. (I know that its possible to drive from Washington to Alaska without a passport or at least it used to be)

Same applies re getting back into the US as with Mexico although again the odds of avoiding a full cavity-search are SOMEWHAT improved with a passport.





Frankly considering how little trouble and expense it is to get a US passport if you are not in a big rush, I wouldn't even consider traveling internationally at all without one. At the very least it should minimize any border-crossing questions.
 
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Reactions: Zorba

wty

Member
Feb 7, 2012
106
4
81
First US COVID-19 deaths came earlier — and in different places — than previously thought

"The Wisconsin Department of Health Services now lists the probable COVID-19 death of a 50-59-year-old woman on Jan. 22, 2020 "
"...the NCHS now lists the country's first COVID-19 death during the week of Jan. 5-11 — the first full week of 2020. "


 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
First US COVID-19 deaths came earlier and in different places than previously thought.

Fixed.


And not exactly shocking news.... that article barely rates a read never mind posting in all caps rotfl. (All it does is state the obvious)


Covid went anywhere international travelers did and I've been saying since the beginning it was here in the US at least several weeks to maybe up to 2 months longer then we've previously believed. (like late Nov- early/mid- Dec 2019)

HOWEVER the West Coast cities where the most folks arrived at the wrong time from China and went right home INFECTED were the places the VAST majority people got sick/passed away early in the pandemic, closely followed the NYC-Metro area (from China AND Europe) despite the occasional case that popped up in "East Bum-fvck KS".
 
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local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,851
512
136
Well, the rona finally made it into my house. One of my 7 year olds tested positive this afternoon. Her two sisters both had similar symptoms last week but never tested positive. However as the day has progressed I'd say she has it the worst now. I am aware that it is entirely possible that her sisters had something completely not covid. But seeing as we all live in a small house there is little than can be done to isolate, not that I would isolate a 5 or 7 year old anyway.
 
Reactions: Captante

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
First US COVID-19 deaths came earlier — and in different places — than previously thought

"The Wisconsin Department of Health Services now lists the probable COVID-19 death of a 50-59-year-old woman on Jan. 22, 2020 "
"...the NCHS now lists the country's first COVID-19 death during the week of Jan. 5-11 — the first full week of 2020. "


Fixed.


And not exactly shocking news.... that article barely rates a read never mind posting in all caps rotfl. (All it does is state the obvious)


Covid went anywhere international travelers did and I've been saying since the beginning it was here in the US at least several weeks to maybe up to 2 months longer then we've previously believed. (like late Nov- early/mid- Dec 2019)

HOWEVER the West Coast cities where the most folks arrived at the wrong time from China and went right home INFECTED were the places the VAST majority people got sick/passed away early in the pandemic, closely followed the NYC-Metro area (from China AND Europe) despite the occasional case that popped up in "East Bum-fvck KS".
I think I did get it in Nov 2019. I’ve told my story before. I was struck down by the most odd of fatigue and unwillingness to do anything, along with a nasty shortness of breath. It was literally two weeks of just literally sleeping as much as possible and just trying to get up to do some physical activity.

Since I did test positive this year, with some similarities in symptoms(especially the LACK of nasal irritation) and the fact that my infection was close to the edge but not over the edge, I think natural immunity mitigated the alpha variant infection I likely got.
 
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Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,782
845
126
Thoughts on this without going full P&N?


To me in this case the way it is described it sounds fair.
We are not talking about an emergency room visit, sounds like regular Dr visits.
She has patients who are compromised and are at high risk of COVID. She will still service the unvaccinated but needs to be telemedicine.
I assume she doesn't see young children.
A lot of doctors will refuse to do "risky" procedures to keep their record clean even if it will save the patient in mid / long term so if they can do that to pad their stats I see no reason this is any different as in this case the medical science is on her side.

Granted a lot of the times the system is to blame when this happens as it's something the doctors can get in trouble over even if everyone knew the risk and it causes their insurance to get more expensive or even revoked but in this case something like this should be rewarded as it's helping her reasonable patients stay safe.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,009
4,370
136
Delta also is endemic amongst the vaccinated.

NO! It is not. Do NOT spread covid misinformation FUD.

"A new CDC report shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less."

Endemic not found. Period.

 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
136
NO! It is not. Do NOT spread covid misinformation FUD.

"A new CDC report shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less."

Endemic not found. Period.


Not sure that answers the point. The key bit being that "resulted in hospitalisations or death". The number actually carrying the virus in their systems is likely far higher. Therefore does that not make the _virus_ endemic among the vaccinated, if not the more severe forms of the disease?
 
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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,009
4,370
136
Not sure that answers the point. The key bit being that "resulted in hospitalisations or death". The number actually carrying the virus in their systems is likely far higher. Therefore does that not make the _virus_ endemic among the vaccinated, if not the more severe forms of the disease?

I'm sure the total number is higher. The hospitalizations/deaths were 0.01 percent or less of vaccinated.. How many times higher would you make it? 2? 5? 10? More? It STILL would not be endemic.
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
813
250
136
I had the pleasure of visiting the doctor's office a few days ago. Seemed like nothing but sick people there, wheelchairs, crutches, oxygen tanks, you name it. Without a doubt my biggest risk of exposure to date.

It struck me as a place to go and obtain medical treatment. I saw no one being denied health care.

It did make me wish that those allocating the enormous amounts of cash to fight this virus might have left a little bit to deploy rapid testing, at least in this type of environment. If the real objective is to save lives and reduce liability, I would expect them to use employ the best method possible.

Rapid tests need not be that expensive and should be easy to implement in a health care facility.
 
Reactions: Zorba
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
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Not sure that answers the point. The key bit being that "resulted in hospitalisations or death". The number actually carrying the virus in their systems is likely far higher. Therefore does that not make the _virus_ endemic among the vaccinated, if not the more severe forms of the disease?

Point is if the vaccinated are getting sick it doesn’t show in hospitalizations or deaths.
Yes some are getting sick, no they aren’t dying or tying up hospital resources.
Getting sick and recovering in 5 to 7 days is not exactly a pandemic.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
NO! It is not. Do NOT spread covid misinformation FUD.

"A new CDC report shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less."

Endemic not found. Period.

Endemic precisely means that the virus remains but normal people with normal immune profiles can “handle it”, not that it doesn’t cause asymptomatic or minor infections. Not being in the hospital is not a guarantee of non-infection. I posted an article where a Hopkins epidemiologist has a little party with 17 others all fully vaccinated and they all got COVID, but avoided the hospital. And the county they are in is highly vaccinated; I live in that same country. 93+% with one shot, 85%+ fully vaccinated except the prepubescent kids.

I don’t fear your mod powers to call you stupid and missing the point. Immunocompromised are walking bodies of fragility, so while the normal person walking into a medical facility might have a little illness, that all that is needed to take someone recovering from chemo or the like out. My article is from 2014 regarding flus, colds, and other endemic illnesses that are not of concern to most “healthy” people.

All it takes is one. NFL is about to start and I expect fully vaccinated players to miss games. In fact, that already will happen with Zack Martin. No, he won’t be in the hospital, but he better isolate if doesn’t want to spread it, a far easier threshold to reach.

The highlighted is not allowed in open forums. Mods post on their personal accounts, and are protected from having their mod status being brought into any forum conversation, for what I can only hope are obvious reasons.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
136
Point is if the vaccinated are getting sick it doesn’t show in hospitalizations or deaths.
Yes some are getting sick, no they aren’t dying or tying up hospital resources.
Getting sick and recovering in 5 to 7 days is not exactly a pandemic.


Not a _pandemic_, but as far as I understand the definition of the world, it's still _endemic_. The virus remains present and circulating in the population, vaccinated or not, and in sufficient quantities (in the nose in particular, as I understand it) to spread to others.

That the vaccine stops people dying is a very good thing, obviously.
 
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