Normal Mapping, HDR, Soft Shadows...

[enz660hp]

I dont know much about the different features that games support, but one that was pretty big a couple years ago was HDR. It pretty much makes light act in a MUCH more realistic manner than before right? So whats next? What are some major features that we can use when we get video cards that can render awsome effects in real time instead of hours like in model programs. I just want some info really...

 

[zephyrprime]

We definitely need subsurface scattering if we are to ever get realistic flesh tones. Self shadowing would be nice too. We also could use some better algorithms to makes shadows because the current ones are too slow.

 

[IlllI]

ray tracing!

 

[Nightmare225]

Ray tracing would really help us get CGI quality graphics.

 

[MemberSince97]

Originally posted by: clandren
ray tracing!

 

[40sTheme]

Speaking about normal mapping, it needs to be done better, especially with LOD and skin tones. HDR was a pretty much pointless step up (in my eyes), because it is simply a modification of the process of bloom with higher contrast and saturation. More accurate forms of occlusion for volumetric light would be much appreciated. Also, soft shadows are worthless unless someone can find a way for antialiasing to not cause odd edges on the shadows along with it (as is apparent in a few games out now). I especially would like to see a process that compensates for the distance an object is away from the surface its shadow is being mapped onto for soft shadows. The closer, the sharper the shadow, the farther, the more soft the shadow becomes. FEAR is a good start in terms of shadows and ambient light reactivity with shadows.

 

[enz660hp]

ray tracing heh? As for subsurface scattering, crysis has human skin lookin pretty good fro the screenshots ive seen. I think we need more textures to scale with the player's view point. For example, a leaf from 10 feet away would simply look green, but from 1c away, you couls see the veins, texture, etc etc... some quad core, dual 8800 system could probably render the toy story movie in real time right? That was around 7 years ago? So perhaps in 10 years we can see some Lord of the Rings real time rendering quality in games...or we could bomb the **** out of each other before next year

 

[Gamingphreek]

some quad core, dual 8800 system could probably render the toy story movie in real time right?

Not a chance in hell. They have entire server farms working on rendering that in real time. Not only that, the 8800 is consumer level not workstation. Even a Quadro or FireGL, or a 3DLabs card in that system couldn't do it.

-Kevin

 

[SickBeast]

Have they implemented Radiosity yet? I know that was one of the newer features of 3DS Max...

Ray tracing hasn't been implemented yet? I thought Doom 3 used it.

I find that the organic stuff still looks very fake in games, such as foliage and humans. They need to hire better artists to make them look more lifelike! Cars and buildings are very easy to create in a *very* realistic way.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

some quad core, dual 8800 system could probably render the toy story movie in real time right?

Not a chance in hell. They have entire server farms working on rendering that in real time. Not only that, the 8800 is consumer level not workstation. Even a Quadro or FireGL, or a 3DLabs card in that system couldn't do it.

-Kevin

Actually I am pretty sure we passed the point of rendering Toy Story in real time a few generations ago. Remember, that movie came out 12 years ago! While it did take entire server farms to produce that movie, such render farms are using many CPU in parallel to process the frame data, rather than dedicated graphics hardware. Add that to the fact that it was 12-year old high-end CPU tech.

 

[BFG10K]

Self shadowing would be nice too

We already have that (Doom 3 et al).

 

[rstrohkirch]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I especially would like to see a process that compensates for the distance an object is away from the surface its shadow is being mapped onto for soft shadows. The closer, the sharper the shadow, the farther, the more soft the shadow becomes.

Hellgate London had a dx10 demo showing off this feature in-game

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

some quad core, dual 8800 system could probably render the toy story movie in real time right?

Not a chance in hell. They have entire server farms working on rendering that in real time. Not only that, the 8800 is consumer level not workstation. Even a Quadro or FireGL, or a 3DLabs card in that system couldn't do it.

-Kevin

Actually I am pretty sure we passed the point of rendering Toy Story in real time a few generations ago. Remember, that movie came out 12 years ago! While it did take entire server farms to produce that movie, such render farms are using many CPU in parallel to process the frame data, rather than dedicated graphics hardware. Add that to the fact that it was 12-year old high-end CPU tech.

Agreed!

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I'd like to see more realistic fire effects. HL2's looks flat and FEAR's while better, looks cartoony and blindingly bright.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I'd like to see more realistic fire effects. HL2's looks flat and FEAR's while better, looks cartoony and blindingly bright.

Soft particles and what-not will fix this. Crysis, etc next gen games have already included stuff like this. Looks damn good too.

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
I'm not sure what needs to be done, but I'd like to see more realistic fire effects. HL2's looks flat and FEAR's while better, looks cartoony and blindingly bright.

Soft particles and what-not will fix this. Crysis, etc next gen games have already included stuff like this. Looks damn good too.

Thanks. I thought that's what it'd be, but I didn't want to say "Soft particles. I want to see more realistic fire!" and be wrong.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: GamingphreekNot a chance in hell. They have entire server farms working on rendering that in real time. Not only that, the 8800 is consumer level not workstation. Even a Quadro or FireGL, or a 3DLabs card in that system couldn't do it.

-Kevin

The workstation cards are actually a little slower than consumer cards. The only things that they offer that consumer cards don't have is more memory and wireframe acceleration. The best part is, the GPUs used are exactly the same but some of the features are just turned off in the consumer cards.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Is there anyway we can ditch polygons altogether?

 

[BassBomb]

We need higher poly models and higher quality textures (higher quality done WELL, ie HL2 style).

I like the idea of LOD textures where you get closer and the detail strikes you more, I believe Far Cry did that well

Raytrace shadows already exist quite well, but raytraced reflections arent nearly so.

I work in 3DSMAX and raytrace reflections seem to be the toughest and still a long way from being able to complete.

8800GTX's still wont be able to render Toy Story in real time. This is due to the sheer amount of polygons things like that have.

Higher poly gun models would look nice in FPS (ie CS:S has best ones, then Far Cry)

 

[enz660hp]

I was looking at some screens where the depth of field effects like in call of juarez seem a little annoying. Maybe its a different experience when actually playing the game on a massive monitor?

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: enz660hp
I was looking at some screens where the depth of field effects like in call of juarez seem a little annoying. Maybe its a different experience when actually playing the game on a massive monitor?

Yes, they are all pretty annoying.
Also, I wish we could do away altogether with LOD... not keep it... it would be nicer to see everything in full detail all the time.

 

[BigPoppa]

Wasn't Toy Story rendered in some rediculously high resolution? I wanna say somethingx4096?

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: enz660hp
I was looking at some screens where the depth of field effects like in call of juarez seem a little annoying. Maybe its a different experience when actually playing the game on a massive monitor?

Yes, they are all pretty annoying.
Also, I wish we could do away altogether with LOD... not keep it... it would be nicer to see everything in full detail all the time.

isn't LOD just a trick to ease the load on the graphics card ?

 

[xtknight]

IMO if we improved the lighting and the overall texture quality, games would be a good deal further than they are now when it comes to realism. We don't need realistic human faces, I just want realistic monsters. Real enough to make it plausible but not real enough to make it boring.

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Is there anyway we can ditch polygons altogether?

Why though? Is there really a better option?

 

[enz660hp]

i know its cheesy, but IMO, no monitor is large enough. We really need VERY high resolution goggles that have timy monitors in them.
something like these
http://www.paramountzone.com/virtualvisionglasses.htm
Plus...theres some new technology that can make things seem "3d" without the 80's style glasses.