North Korea & Nukes - Solution(s)?

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CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
Originally posted by: techs
To start with we stop borrowing billions from China to finance the Bush tax loan.

Talk about damaging our country. These massive loans are going to have an impact.


China will be more than happy to finance the US and their adventure of killing off American Soldiers in wars.

Hell, think about it - lend the US all the money that they want to buy garbage products while they can
build up their own Army, use NK to keep the US at odds with the world, AND have them continue fighting in Iraq.



 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: Todd33
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Todd33
So how often has NK attacked others in the last 10-20 years? Have they vowed to invade or attack anyone? If Kim is such a "nutjob" why has he not sent his million+ army south to invade? He is nuts right?

Did they put the US on an axis of evil?

Which leader has said that God told him to invade a sovereign country?

Seems to me it's a regional issue and we have no moral high ground to preach from.

Does assinations squads in other countries; covert infiltrators/sabatouers into South Korea and Japan count?

What about incursions across the DMZ and tunnels underneath it?

NK is not a innocent misunderstood babe.

Dozens of countries, including our allies and us do far worse every year. What is your point? I never said NK was innocent, thanks for putting words in my mouth.

The situation is you cannot compare NK to the rest of the world!!
Each nation rises or stands on its own merits!!
I am agree NK could be going to use the nuclear weapons as a bargaining chip....
But also remember miserie loves company and there would be alot of miserable people if they happenned to by accident nuke a populated area....

History has proven at least once that if a nation has them they will use them.
We are not debating the right or wrong we are making an accurate non political statement that is factual!

YES-- I believe seeing Japan step out diplomatically and go to China shows how gravwe the Japanese people are taking this issue!!

Can Asia deal with NK alone?
Sure if they can get over centuries of hatred towards each other and at least unite on this one issue!
 

Chinadefender

Member
Dec 1, 2004
161
0
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
US has sent an interesting signal to the world:disgust:

Keep on nuclear testing and finally get help.

This is what US have dong with Indian nuclear issue.

India is not exactly North Korea in case you haven't looked, neither is Pakistan. India developed its bomb by ripping off Canadian nuclear technology.


I just mean how weak the nuke control system is.

If those potential nuclear country got that signal: keep on nuke testing and finally get awards, there would be more and more nuclear countries.





 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,322
35,458
136
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
US has sent an interesting signal to the world:disgust:

Keep on nuclear testing and finally get help.

This is what US have dong with Indian nuclear issue.

India is not exactly North Korea in case you haven't looked, neither is Pakistan. India developed its bomb by ripping off Canadian nuclear technology.


I just mean how weak the nuke control system is.

If those potential nuclear country got that signal: keep on nuke testing and finally get awards, there would be more and more nuclear countries.


The only thing India is really getting is access to our civilian nuclear technology. US companies (GE and Westinghouse) produce the most advanced light water reactors in the world. We already export these to several other countries. These reactor designs are very impractical for military use, which is besides the point anyway since India already has its own military reactors.

India also never signed the NPT, is a democratic nation, a potentially huge trade partner in commerce and arms, and an effective counterbalance to China and the Muslim states in Asia/ME.

North Korea is a Stalinist hellhole with no real economy, freedom, and of very little real importance other than what its crazy leader can generate/extort for himself by threatening the rest of the world. Kim Jong can test nukes until he is green in the face and he still isn't going to get the bilateral talks with the US.
 

Chinadefender

Member
Dec 1, 2004
161
0
0
Yup. India is not the same as NK.

After all, US has told India not to take any nuke testing, and started a variety of sanctions when it really happened.

Anyway, the sanction against nuke testing has been proved temporary and volatile to international politics, right?

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
I read some where that the whole key to this crisis may actually lay with Taiwan.

In the Chinese leadership reunification with Taiwan is HUGE. So if we were to sell Taiwan some of our more advance defensive weapons systems in order to help them counter act this new threat from North Korea China would go nuts.

This would give us leverage in getting China to? play ball? with NK.

Wish I had a link for ya, but I read so much stuff on the web I can never keep track of what I learn where.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
North Korea is a Stalinist hellhole with no real economy, freedom, and of very little real importance other than what its crazy leader can generate/extort for himself by threatening the rest of the world. Kim Jong can test nukes until he is green in the face and he still isn't going to get the bilateral talks with the US.
exactly. rationally, most everyone here could agree north korea is de facto "rogue state", or forms "axis of evil" as famously stated by Bush. Personally, I strongly believe they must repent for all the atrocities they have commited since 1950. As much as I loathe american diplomacy, the Korean War would more than topple anything America did in past century or so. Don't forget they instigated armed conflicts in the western waters of Korea just few years ago, costing lives of many innocent South Korean seamen. I was actually in active duty at that time, and this act of aggression totally enraged me. Also, as an American citizen, it is patriotic to seek for ways that maximize the benefit of America and her people, fair enough. However, Todd33 brings up an excellent point on relative equality. To be completely fair, America should rid of all her nukes before she wastes her energy to "cleanse" nations not deemed trustworthy, at least from purely ethical standpoint. Though I believe letting NK have their own way with nukes is not of the best interest to any neighboring state, there is no way you are going to hold a high moral ground to tell others before you walk the walk yourself. Call me being overly technical, but that is what I see from a 3rd person view.

Someone mentioned America is respected looked up to, well maybe few decades ago when many countries were still striving to escape 3rd world status or going through political/economic turmoil on top of the greater evil of Soviet Union overlooking them. Do people really like America these days? Thats not exactly what I saw having spent a considerable amount of life leaving in other countries and being around with people with multinational backgrounds. There are still many individuals wishing to move to the US for better education, job opportunities, and whatnot, but not many are able to. Obviously, a bigger majority of people seem to be rather hotly anti american. I had a chance to skim through the article on anti-americanism and thought it didnt do justice to what a rampant "fad" it is now. Let's not get into why this is happening, thats a whole new can of worms. Just chipping in my 2 cents.

But I digress. What I wanted to point out was that if anyone have a clear idea of what to do once Kim is forced out of power. I hope I dont have to remind everyone of what happened to W. Germany after absorbing the East breathren, when both boasted some of the best economy in their respective camps. SK is a rather big player now in the world economy, but nowhere near where W. Germany was prior to the unification; in fact, SK has once reached an extreme condition, being placed under IMF program less than a decade ago. SK cant handle a huge influx of famine-ridden hordes any better than China could, not to mention rebuilding the ruins of what wretched nation NK is now. With the idea of reunification out of the window, what needs to be done to the staving population of 23000 people? To make matters worse, SK locals have been taught since birth to aspire unification as their national goal, so undoubtedly they will assume collapse of NK should mean reunification. Wait, thats not the end of the story! There is a serious question of how much power Kim actually wields in the NK's hegemony structure. NK military is known to be very gung-ho, filled with ranks of hawkish generals. From what I understand, SK's aim is to keep Kim power and not provoke him to do something crazier than usual, like launching all-out chemical assault or long range artillery barrage on Seoul (though this threat is allegedely addressed with newer OPLANs for preemtive strikes), officially anyway. They fear a collapse of dangerous yet quasi-stable balance of regime and ensueing power struggle more so than this infamous dictator. Interestingly, this policy dubbed as "Sunshine Policy" is at the core of heated debate among Koreans, where many argue this was the cause of inability to stop NK's nuke program. Yet many SK youngsters remain dangerously anti-american, which worries me quite a bit. Personally, I dont claim to know enough or have a clear stance on as to this is the best approach to handle NK. But the question is, do we have any concrete plan for actions to be taken after we debunk the NK government immediately. Perhaps this could be done with minimal casualties and material losses with careful planning, but whats next? Sounds kinda like the Red revolution in the sense that it lacks clear guidance after you make it happen.

Cliff notes: Fine, get rid of Kim. Then what?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,322
35,458
136
Originally posted by: VanillaH
Cliff notes: Fine, get rid of Kim. Then what?

Keep the nation of NK and its borders intact for the time being. Physical security of the borders should be maintained by China and South Korea. No mass imigration to the South allowed. South Koreans should be free to travel to the North to assist in any ways they desire.

The first thing that needs to be addressed is the humanitarian problems. Immediate food, medicine, and energy problems could be seen too in fairly short order by SK, Japan, China, and the US.

Secondly a new representative government needs to be established. This is a job for the South Koreans as they would run into the least amount of trouble executing it. Normalization of trade and diplomatic ties should follow as quickly as possible to generate at income for the new government to function.

Initial economic redevelopment/investment should be handled by a group of at least educated North Koreans with South Korea, US, and possibly China advising heavily. Eventually the country would be turned over to a relatively free market ala SK.

Reunification should only be a long term goal, even if that means a couple decades to bring the North's economy out of the crapper to avoid swamping the South Korean economy (ala Western Germany).
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: VanillaH
Cliff notes: Fine, get rid of Kim. Then what?

Keep the nation of NK and its borders intact for the time being. Physical security of the borders should be maintained by China and South Korea. No mass imigration to the South allowed. South Koreans should be free to travel to the North to assist in any ways they desire.

The first thing that needs to be addressed is the humanitarian problems. Immediate food, medicine, and energy problems could be seen too in fairly short order by SK, Japan, China, and the US.

Secondly a new representative government needs to be established. This is a job for the South Koreans as they would run into the least amount of trouble executing it. Normalization of trade and diplomatic ties should follow as quickly as possible to generate at income for the new government to function.

Initial economic redevelopment/investment should be handled by a group of at least educated North Koreans with South Korea, US, and possibly China advising heavily. Eventually the country would be turned over to a relatively free market ala SK.

Reunification should only be a long term goal, even if that means a couple decades to bring the North's economy out of the crapper to avoid swamping the South Korean economy (ala Western Germany).

I am sure thats whats on the mind of most policy makers, but also inclined to think its hard to plan, even harder to implement correctly. There is very real danger of political instability with NKs that may and may not become friendly towards SK locals, plus many "liberal" SK activists that are blantantly communist and pro-NK. To me they are crazier than Kim :disgust: As for reunification, many feel SK isnt ready yet, even for some long term buffered approach as suggested above; they are trying hard enough to stay alive in the economic turmoil.
 
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