not detecting IDE1 on boot

[substance12]

I just put together a new system for my gf... biostar k8m800, amd x2, 1g ram, win xp, 200g maxtor.... etc etc.

some odd problems...

sometimes when i reboot it doesn't detect the IDE devices and gives me the "insert system disk error". when i reboot it repeats the same message but if shut down and start up it works.

sometimes when I shut down it just hangs at the windows is shutting down screen.

sometimes when i'm in windows it runs like a slug.

but when it's none of those things... it works like a champ. I ran seti on it for hours so I know it's stable. Also ran the seagate/maxtor disk test on the new hdd... no problems.

I've never come across any of these symptoms... I'd really appreciate some help.

edit: got the mb wrong... it's biostar

edit2: swapped out the mb with an asus... same problem.

 

[sutahz]

When you ran the disk test, maybe it was on one of its good cycles. Is the hdd new? If so return it and get a new one. Run some synthetic benchmarks on it, that may show a problem. Make sure the jumper is in the appropriate position (CS or Master).
Since it runs great at times and like a slug other times, it's not the BIOS or a windows setting. An IRQ conflict somehow? Doubtful, but never know...

 

[substance12]

one of the things I've found on the internet is that it might be jumper settings or a bad IDE cable. I'm positive I have it set correctly but I've read that setting the jumpers to NOT-cable select might solve it.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Heat problem?

 

[substance12]

if it's heat problems I'm not feeling any heat. also, don't heat probably usually cause system crashes and such?

 

[robisbell]

I need a detailed list of all parts in this system, including make and model numbers.

 

[substance12]

sorry it took so long. here's the stats:

amd 64 x2 dual 3600
1 gig ram
biostar k8m800 mb
nvidia geforce fx5600
nec dvd rw nd-3550a
lite on dvd sohd-16p9s
I do not know what the PSU is. I want to say a 350W sparkle but i really cannot remember
200g maxtor (primary master ide)
200g seagate (primary slave ide)


edit: updated mb

 

[robisbell]

for that setup, that 350 is underpowering the whole thing. you need to upgrade it to a 500watt that should handle all your current needs and any upgrades for a little while.

 

[substance12]

damnit... this is really frustrating...

i swapped out different IDE cables, hard drives, power supplies...

the first 10 or so boot ups that I tried with various configurations all resulted in the anything attached to IDE1 not being detected. then when it finally does boot up, it spends like 5 mins on the black windows screen.

 

[robisbell]

okay, what wattage are you using now?

 

[substance12]

it was either 450W or 500W.

 

[robisbell]

manually check the voltages with a multimeter with and without a load.

 

[substance12]

where do i probe for the voltages? Since I've swapped out power supplies and tried it with just 1 hdd and with everything, is it really a PSU issue? I'm thinking I need to reset the BIOS to default config or something. will clearing the CMOS battery do anything?

also what is wierd is that IDE2 (dvdroms) always detect... it's just not IDE1. There's another wierd thing in the BIOS where it lists 3 IDE channels: 0, 1, and 2. I'll have to double check that.

 

[robisbell]

there's a few tutorials you can find via Google, on how to test a PSU with a multimeter.

what's the revision of the BIOS for the motherboard?

 

[substance12]

i can't figure out the rev number for the BIOS.

here's another really odd thing. I booted into safe mode because I was getting stuck at the black windows screen. It asked if I wanted to do a system restore... so I figure why not. I rolled back to the earliest date allowable.

it now boots up. one thing I do know is that all the windows updates I did got rolled back and the nvidia driver I installed got removed.

I've rebooted that machine like 8 times already and one of the times it didn't detect any of the IDE drives but when I rebooted it worked. very odd. I've also noticed that the intro BIOS screen (not the blue one, the one you see when you turn on your comp) is a little different. the "GEforce bios" screen appears and then goes away and then I see the biostar screen and the IDE detection. previously that was on the same screen. I'm not sure what that all means.

 

[robisbell]

I'd strip the system down to the bare essentials and thoroughly check the bios and board. it may be a power issue or infection issue.

 

[substance12]

i think it was 2 issues. the windows booting up seems to be resolved.

I also just updated the bios. i think i'm having success with booting up so far. I guess i'll just keep rebooting until i get an error.

 

[substance12]

I'm about to pull my hair out again...

new MB this time... same error. damn I'm pissed.

so to recap... I've swapped out the PS, the HDD, the MB...

I'm pretty sure it's not the cpu, dvdroms, or ram.

one thing that I did come across is perhaps it's the IDE cable. I've swapped out difference cables but perhaps I just havent' found the right kind? # pins? should I be opting for master/slave instead of cable select? i didn't see that option with the jumpers.

I've also come across advice saying that I have to turn off quick boot and I need to allow some time for the hdd to be detected. I'm not sure if I buy that... with the old motherboard it would not even detect if I was in bios.

 

[robisbell]

if it's a standard IDE cable, I'd use the one that came with the new mobo.

 

[Zepper]

For modern systems you want a PSU with somewhere around 30 total Amps available from the 12V rails as a minimum.
. Your IDE cables should be 80-wire, 40 pin. If you have an 80 wire cable, the blue end should be plugged into the mobo (usually color coded blue), the gray connector (middle) is secondary drive, black connector is primary when both drives' jumpers are set to CS.
. Normal IDE cables (40-wire, non color coded connectors) don't work well with modern HDDs - may work with opticals - interface should be 33MHz or less for 40-wire cables. If you set the jumpers on the HDDs to (Master or StandAlone) and/or slave you don't have to pay attention to which connector you attach the drive though convention still has Master on end and Slave in the middle.
. You also may find that one drive doesn't like to be master, but prefers to be slave to the other drive, so try both orders. Maxtor and Seagate usually have just two jumpers: one is master unjumpered and slave when jumpered. For CS you jumper that pair of pins and leave the M/S pair unjumpered. Drives w/ jumper settings usually have the key right on top of the drive or you can look on the Seagate site for the jumper settings for both as Max is part of Seagate now.

.bh.

 

[substance12]

I'm using the ide cable that came with the board.

I even swappped out the jumper... heh.

as for maxtor and seagate i think it's the opposite. master = one jumper and slave = none.

i've been using CS for both drives. and I believe I did that because it said somewhere that if you have only 1 drive you select master and if you have more than one you use CS... but perhaps I misread or mixed up HDD literature. As of the last 3 mins this appears to be the culprit because the load times are insanely slow when the master is on CS (I figured this out after changing it). gonna give it another go round.

 

[substance12]

odd. now primary ide master will detect but slave doesn't. it still allows me to boot into windows though. and what I said earlier about setting the jumper to master being the key for the primary hdd... somehow it works with cable select as well. I've tried setting the second hdd as slave and CS... it detected once... and on reboot it did not detect.

 

[robisbell]

get The Ultimate Boot CD and manually test the HDD.

 

[substance12]

robisbell: thanks. will keep the UBC in my back pocket from now on.

problem resolved. i had no idea a secondary hard drive would cause such problems. turns out the seagate utility found 10 errors with that drive. I was focusing too much on the primary hdd this whole time. it actually explains a lot though I cannot believe I didn't catch this issue. I could have swore I had tested the system with and without the 2ndary hdd connected. It seems like such a basic troubleshooting scenario. I'm still in denial.

 

[robisbell]

well, glad to have been of help, keep it handy, very useful utility.