NOT HOT FRAUD: Target Changes Return Policy on Software, Music, DVD

[LokiX]

i tend to think that the point some people are missing here is that sometimes the manufaturer's quality control may miss something. So even in an honest situation you buy something and they may have left out something. I have seen copies of MS XP still sealed in that big giant plastic box look like someone was eating friedchicken when that packaged it and it would not work. it would seem that target or anyone would have the legal obligation to replace that. sorry that some one may be puling a scam on them but thats the chance you have to take as a major retailer. i used to work for bb and we by law HAD to post our return policies in plain view of the customer. We had these HUGE posters with the policies on them. What a lot of people do realize is that if something is returned and was defective the retailer can send it back to the manufactureer for a replacement. You think a retailer as large as target could handle a little bit of loss. Even BB will let you exchange something if it doesnt work or is broken. so despite the fact that this may be in the wrong forum its still good to know. I never buy these sort of things form target anyway but now i will deture friends of mine that do. hope it all works out for you and thanks for the heads up.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I've never had a problem with any CD or DVD or software I have ever purchased ... (ok i had problems with a couple used dvds from blockbuster a long time ago).
There is nothing wrong with this return policy. It is fair IMO. It keeps them from getting shafted by theives.


On the other hand ... this is not a hot deal.
This belongs in OT.
Please no not post OT things in HD.

 

[Tommyboy8]

Originally posted by: allisolm


3. I'm not a lawyer, so maybe there is one here who can confirm or deny, but I thought that, regardless of their stated return policy, a store has to accept returns of items that cannot be used for the purpose that they were sold if they sell them as new. Called warrant of merchantability?

warrant of merchantability is for real property only... it doesn't apply to goods. The sale of goods is governed under the Uniform Commercial Code Title 2.

This is not fraud. Target has the liberty to change its return policy. They are protecting themselves from people who steal from them. IMHO, Target has been one of the better place to shop for items and has had an examplary return policy without that added restocking fee.

 

[Psorak]

Originally posted by: LokiX
i tend to think that the point some people are missing here is that sometimes the manufaturer's quality control may miss something. So even in an honest situation you buy something and they may have left out something. I have seen copies of MS XP still sealed in that big giant plastic box look like someone was eating friedchicken when that packaged it and it would not work. it would seem that target or anyone would have the legal obligation to replace that. sorry that some one may be puling a scam on them but thats the chance you have to take as a major retailer. i used to work for bb and we by law HAD to post our return policies in plain view of the customer. We had these HUGE posters with the policies on them. What a lot of people do realize is that if something is returned and was defective the retailer can send it back to the manufactureer for a replacement. You think a retailer as large as target could handle a little bit of loss. Even BB will let you exchange something if it doesnt work or is broken. so despite the fact that this may be in the wrong forum its still good to know. I never buy these sort of things form target anyway but now i will deture friends of mine that do. hope it all works out for you and thanks for the heads up.

In all my years of purchasing software and working with people that purchase software, I cannot cite one instance of this happening. My experience would number in the thousands.

Puhhhlease.

 

[NorCalSci]

Originally posted by: Psorak
Fraud is all the morons buying a CD, game copying it then returning the original.

That's fraud. Not what you're citing in your post.

This should be deleted for idiocy.

That is exactly what I mean by FRAUD. Either people are returning incomplete/defective products (in the case of one product actually shrinkwrapping a partially empty box), stealing things in the store, or employees are stealing stuff and leaving the boxes on the shelf. That is the fraud.

However, Target is committing an exceptionally bad business practice by:

1) Putting returned, uninspected empty boxes back on the shelves and selling them as "new" products
2) Changing their return policy retroactively, without notice to customers
3) Offering little or no recourse to customers who have been victims of their sloppiness.

Every retail store deals with shoplifting, employee theft and return fraud. Target is one of the first to solve their problem by screwing their paying customers rather than the perpetrators.

This message was simply an alert to my friends here that Target is selling some software boxes that are empty, and if you happen to get "lucky" and buy one you cannot return it.

 

[NorCalSci]

Originally posted by: Psorak


In all my years of purchasing software and working with people that purchase software, I cannot cite one instance of this happening. My experience would number in the thousands.

Puhhhlease.

Thanks for your insight and personal experience. I'm glad you haven't had a problem like this. However, in the few hours this has been posted members have shared other examples of the same thing happening to them. Others have observed tampered boxes on the shelves at Target. I am just telling you if you happen to get one of those boxes you cannot return it.

Fry's and other stores immediately place a white "returned item" sticker on any item that has been returned, THEN they put the item back on the shelf. Target just puts the item back on the shelf and sells it to an unsuspecting customer.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Psorak

Originally posted by: LokiX
i tend to think that the point some people are missing here is that sometimes the manufaturer's quality control may miss something. So even in an honest situation you buy something and they may have left out something. I have seen copies of MS XP still sealed in that big giant plastic box look like someone was eating friedchicken when that packaged it and it would not work. it would seem that target or anyone would have the legal obligation to replace that. sorry that some one may be puling a scam on them but thats the chance you have to take as a major retailer. i used to work for bb and we by law HAD to post our return policies in plain view of the customer. We had these HUGE posters with the policies on them. What a lot of people do realize is that if something is returned and was defective the retailer can send it back to the manufactureer for a replacement. You think a retailer as large as target could handle a little bit of loss. Even BB will let you exchange something if it doesnt work or is broken. so despite the fact that this may be in the wrong forum its still good to know. I never buy these sort of things form target anyway but now i will deture friends of mine that do. hope it all works out for you and thanks for the heads up.

In all my years of purchasing software and working with people that purchase software, I cannot cite one instance of this happening. My experience would number in the thousands.

Puhhhlease.

Well, I recently purchased a sealed game from Target that had a slight problem. It was Rise of Nations. It did not have a cd-key label stuck to the back of the cd case. Was this internal theft, a prior return that did not get checked over properly, or a manufacturing error?

There's no way to know for sure, but saying that just because you have never seen a piece of software reach the shelves in an incomplete way does not mean that it cannot happen. As a matter of fact, thinking that it is impossible, as you seem to imply in your post, is pretty laughable in its own way.

 

[allisolm]

warrant of merchantability is for real property only... it doesn't apply to goods. The sale of goods is governed under the Uniform Commercial Code Title 2.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but I believe that Article 2 of the UCC sections 2-314, 2-315 and 2-316 deal with implied warrant of merchantability for goods. What I get from those sections is basically that the goods have to be fit for the purpose for which they are sold unless there are prominent signs that say the merchandise is being sold "as is" or something similar.

 

[Mockmaw]

Ugh...

1) Putting returned, uninspected empty boxes back on the shelves and selling them as "new" products

Has it EVER occured to you that this policy will curb the chances of a customer buying a product that has missing/incomplete components? By ensuring that every single returned piece of merchandise is exactly how it was when it left the store in the first place, the chances of it having been opened are far less. It's probably gonna take a little time for all of the packages with missing components to filter out of the system, but over the course of a few weeks, I'm sure the integrity of products will rise dramatically.

2) Changing their return policy retroactively, without notice to customers

What do you mean 'without notice to customers'? Did you actively read and understand the return policy before you purchased the product? If so, as said above, you have recourse for an exchange using the return policy that you purchased the item under. You make it sound like Target has the obligation to give your home a courtesy call informing you that they've changed their return policy. That's BS and you know it. If you want to return the item you purchased, it's your responsibility to find out and understand the terms of the return policy. I'm absolutely certain that a notice about the return policy is posted somewhere for customers to find; it sounds like you've been too busy complaining here to go find where that notice is.

3) Offering little or no recourse to customers who have been victims of their sloppiness.

What are you talking about? The person at the store readily gave you information to contact their corporate office to resolve the return claim. What did corporate have to say? How do you know that when you call them they won't just send you a complete new replacement and a letter saying 'sorry'. Until you actually follow up with the instructions that the store readily gave you, I think you have absolutely no leverage whatsoever with which to complain.

For everyone else: How about in the future, when buying such products from Target, ask a clerk or even the manager what to do if when you buy the package it has missing components. If they shrug and say that you're screwed, then I guess find another store to shop at (but don't go around saying its fraud.. it's their business and you don't have to shop there.) On the otherhand, they may gave you a perfectly good solution right on the spot. The manager may even sign your receipt saying that if this is the case, they'll make an exception to your return policy.

It just strikes me that you're not even trying.. just complaining because your purchase didn't go exactly how you wanted and your not willing to spend an extra second to making it right. On the otherhand, Target is probably losing thousands and thousands of dollars to theft. Who do you think has better justification?

 

[Psorak]

Originally posted by: Mockmaw
Ugh...

1) Putting returned, uninspected empty boxes back on the shelves and selling them as "new" products

Has it EVER occured to you that this policy will curb the chances of a customer buying a product that has missing/incomplete components? By ensuring that every single returned piece of merchandise is exactly how it was when it left the store in the first place, the chances of it having been opened are far less. It's probably gonna take a little time for all of the packages with missing components to filter out of the system, but over the course of a few weeks, I'm sure the integrity of products will rise dramatically.

2) Changing their return policy retroactively, without notice to customers

What do you mean 'without notice to customers'? Did you actively read and understand the return policy before you purchased the product? If so, as said above, you have recourse for an exchange using the return policy that you purchased the item under. You make it sound like Target has the obligation to give your home a courtesy call informing you that they've changed their return policy. That's BS and you know it. If you want to return the item you purchased, it's your responsibility to find out and understand the terms of the return policy. I'm absolutely certain that a notice about the return policy is posted somewhere for customers to find; it sounds like you've been too busy complaining here to go find where that notice is.

3) Offering little or no recourse to customers who have been victims of their sloppiness.

What are you talking about? The person at the store readily gave you information to contact their corporate office to resolve the return claim. What did corporate have to say? How do you know that when you call them they won't just send you a complete new replacement and a letter saying 'sorry'. Until you actually follow up with the instructions that the store readily gave you, I think you have absolutely no leverage whatsoever with which to complain.

For everyone else: How about in the future, when buying such products from Target, ask a clerk or even the manager what to do if when you buy the package it has missing components. If they shrug and say that you're screwed, then I guess find another store to shop at (but don't go around saying its fraud.. it's their business and you don't have to shop there.) On the otherhand, they may gave you a perfectly good solution right on the spot. The manager may even sign your receipt saying that if this is the case, they'll make an exception to your return policy.

It just strikes me that you're not even trying.. just complaining because your purchase didn't go exactly how you wanted and your not willing to spend an extra second to making it right. On the otherhand, Target is probably losing thousands and thousands of dollars to theft. Who do you think has better justification?

Very well put, bravo. I try but don't believe putting that much energy into a post since it's like typing to a brick wall.

 

[hallf]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
I've never had a problem with any CD or DVD or software I have ever purchased ... (ok i had problems with a couple used dvds from blockbuster a long time ago).
There is nothing wrong with this return policy. It is fair IMO. It keeps them from getting shafted by theives.

What do you mean this is a fair policy??? Lucky you that you've never gotten a bad CD or DVD...I have bought music CDs that had defects that caused them to skip/stutter and returned them for a new copy that was fine. I can see them not giving you money back or store credit so you can get something else, but a same-item exchange only makes sense. Only it takes a little work on the CSRs part...they have to actually look at what's returned and make sure it's in there. How does Target get "shafted" if I buy a defective CD from them and return it for an identical CD that's not defective? I paid for it - they're getting the original back - I see no deceipt there.

 

[SpongeBobPalmBay]

Originally posted by: NorCalSci
I just learned the unhappy news that TARGET JUST CHANGED ITS RETURN POLICY (corporate memo)! You can no longer return open software/music/dvd in store if the package is open and something is damaged or missing. Seriously, either do not buy music/software/dvd there or open it at the cash register before you purchase.

NEVER buy a gift there of these items because if there is something missing in the box it cannot be exchanged or returned. Can you imagine how embarassing that would be?

This is a very frustrating form of fraud, people removing items from packages and returning them as new. If the store puts it back on the shelf without inspecting the package the next customer gets screwed. Most people don't know what the contents of a package should be, unless they are clearly listed, so even if you were to look in the box how would you know how many disks MS Office, Turbo Tax or MS FLight Simulator, should have? You don't figure it out until you try to install, then the store will not make it good or accept the product back for a refund.

I am very angry because this happened to me with two of the four software packages I just bought.

1) The first FS2004 I picked up at Target had the fourth disk expertly cut off the package and no manual (apparently you cannot load or play the game without disk 4). Every tin can on the shelf had been opened WITHOUT TEARING THE MS "SECURITY SEAL". I didn't know better when I purchased or I would have opened it at the checkout (and I probably still would have been fooled).

2) I also bought an unopened, shrinkwrapped Max Payne and was surprised to find only one disk in the box (with a two-disk holder). I repeat, the box was shrinkwrapped...

I tried to take it back and the Customer non-Service counter gave me a business card and told me to call the Minneapolis number on the back of the card, they said they received a corporate memo instructing them that all such situations must be dealt with through their national office. I have to call them tomorrow because they of course are closed right now.

They either have an internal theft problem or they are putting incomplete "customer returned" packages back on the shelves, then letting their customers eat it.

Bottom line: Avoid Target for these purchases. I will find out what recourse I have with Corporate tomorrow, but I will also contest the credit card charges and file a BBB complaint tomorrow.

Finding this hard to believe but...

If you really had missing discs in everything you purchased then I am sure everyone else who has purchsed from electronics also has... Ask for a manager and let them know that you will not leave the store until the problem is resolved. This will take care of the problem... they don't want you standing at customer service nagging over $50 in software. Or, just call your credit card company or bank and refuse the charges. It's that easy...

Most other stores also have the same policy... and most other stores will re-shrink and stock again... it sucks but they all do it... Walmart, Ebworld, etc...

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Auggie
I'd take a deep breath and think about this.

I could be wrong, but if the return policy has been changed since the date you purchased your software, ask to speak to a manager and you'll probably be credited or offered an exchange.

On the other hand, if this policy was in place before you bought the software, it's your own fault for buying things from them, and not a matter for the Better Business Bureau, as I'm sure they have better things to do than bust their chops looking into a case about an uninformed consumer who bought a product unaware of the return agreement at the store.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry, I'm just saying you don't have a strong case, either way - so either return/exchange since the legacy agreement is still valid if you purchased before they changed their policy, or you purchased it after they changed to the new return agreement and you're dumb out of luck.

My $0.02.

BS he doesnt have a strong case


When a merchant offers to sell you something, but then doesnt give you what you pay for that is illegal, it is fraud. It doesnt matter what a return policy says. Dispute it with your CC is a good idea.

 

[Milkyman]

Most other stores also have the same policy... and most other stores will re-shrink and stock again... it sucks but they all do it... Walmart, Ebworld, etc...

This is very true. I was returning an unopened indiana jones dvd set at bestbuy because I had gotten the pan and scan instead of widescreen by accident and while I was waiting at customer service I saw one of the employees shrinkwrapping returned items.

Also, some of the local gamestops and electronics boutiques actually OPEN new dvds and keep them in those disc binders and place them in the dvd keep case when you purchase it. There was one time I saw a woman who was there because they had sold her a shrinkwrapped gameboy advance game with no game inside the box.

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: SgtZulu
NOT HOT FRAUD: THIS THREAD

As usual you are a d!ck

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: ness1469

Originally posted by: SgtZulu
NOT HOT FRAUD: THIS THREAD

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to point it out. Brag and Moan at best. OT is where this belongs.

Try reading the rules again. Bad business practice/fraud posts are within the rules. READ THE RULES BEFORE YOU ACT LIKE A KNOW IT ALL JERK/WANNABE MOD.

 

[CryHavoc]

So what company allows you to buy music, software and dvd's and allows you to return them for your money back.

Just about every retailer that I know only allows you to exchange the item for the exact same item if found defective, missing something, etc.

I didn't even know that Target allowed you to return one of the above items for your money back.

Are you sure that Target won't allow you to exchange for the same title.

seems to me that their previous policy was open to lots of abuse. Allowing someone to buy a dvd, and then letting them return it for their cash back says, "hey, go buy this dvd, watch it or copy it, then sure, you can return it for your money back...." I don't think so.

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Psorak
Fraud is all the morons buying a CD, game copying it then returning the original.

That's fraud. Not what you're citing in your post.

This should be deleted for idiocy.

You should be deleted for idiocy.

 

[Jmman]

Target evidently does not check very well to make sure that previous returns are unopened. I bought a game about 3 weeks ago and when I got home I noticed that it was opened. Without even checking the contents, I returned to Target and told them I was not purchasing a "used " game and I wanted to exchange it. They did exchange it, but they did a very strange thing. They cut the seal on the new game that I had just purchased. Oh well, they did exchange it so I was satisfied. And for the original poster, small claims court is your friend. Target cannot sell something that is defective in this matter. It would be a slam dunk, and if you win in small claims court I believe that the losing party also has to pay your fees as well.......

On another note, it seems like this is getting to be a fairly widespread problem. I bought a Nvidia TI4200 at Circuit City one time, and when I got out to my car and opened it, it was a mx200!! As far as factory mispackaged items, I purchased some software one time from Microsoft and the box was completely empty even though the factory hologram seal was still intact. Mistakes do happen......

 

[LokiX]

Originally posted by: Psorak

Originally posted by: LokiX
i tend to think that the point some people are missing here is that sometimes the manufaturer's quality control may miss something. So even in an honest situation you buy something and they may have left out something. I have seen copies of MS XP still sealed in that big giant plastic box look like someone was eating friedchicken when that packaged it and it would not work. it would seem that target or anyone would have the legal obligation to replace that. sorry that some one may be puling a scam on them but thats the chance you have to take as a major retailer. i used to work for bb and we by law HAD to post our return policies in plain view of the customer. We had these HUGE posters with the policies on them. What a lot of people do realize is that if something is returned and was defective the retailer can send it back to the manufactureer for a replacement. You think a retailer as large as target could handle a little bit of loss. Even BB will let you exchange something if it doesnt work or is broken. so despite the fact that this may be in the wrong forum its still good to know. I never buy these sort of things form target anyway but now i will deture friends of mine that do. hope it all works out for you and thanks for the heads up.

In all my years of purchasing software and working with people that purchase software, I cannot cite one instance of this happening. My experience would number in the thousands.

Puhhhlease.

So your insinuating that there has NEVER, in all the years that MS or any other manufacturer of anything has been manufacturing murchandise has never had a bad QC episode? Well you can beleive what you want but i was there and the disk was trashed.

Another note, he wasnt trying to get a refund but an exchange. And any retailer should be obligated to ecxchange defective/parts misssing murchandise that they sold.

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Psorak

Originally posted by: Mockmaw
Ugh...

1) Putting returned, uninspected empty boxes back on the shelves and selling them as "new" products

Has it EVER occured to you that this policy will curb the chances of a customer buying a product that has missing/incomplete components? By ensuring that every single returned piece of merchandise is exactly how it was when it left the store in the first place, the chances of it having been opened are far less. It's probably gonna take a little time for all of the packages with missing components to filter out of the system, but over the course of a few weeks, I'm sure the integrity of products will rise dramatically.

2) Changing their return policy retroactively, without notice to customers

What do you mean 'without notice to customers'? Did you actively read and understand the return policy before you purchased the product? If so, as said above, you have recourse for an exchange using the return policy that you purchased the item under. You make it sound like Target has the obligation to give your home a courtesy call informing you that they've changed their return policy. That's BS and you know it. If you want to return the item you purchased, it's your responsibility to find out and understand the terms of the return policy. I'm absolutely certain that a notice about the return policy is posted somewhere for customers to find; it sounds like you've been too busy complaining here to go find where that notice is.

3) Offering little or no recourse to customers who have been victims of their sloppiness.

What are you talking about? The person at the store readily gave you information to contact their corporate office to resolve the return claim. What did corporate have to say? How do you know that when you call them they won't just send you a complete new replacement and a letter saying 'sorry'. Until you actually follow up with the instructions that the store readily gave you, I think you have absolutely no leverage whatsoever with which to complain.

For everyone else: How about in the future, when buying such products from Target, ask a clerk or even the manager what to do if when you buy the package it has missing components. If they shrug and say that you're screwed, then I guess find another store to shop at (but don't go around saying its fraud.. it's their business and you don't have to shop there.) On the otherhand, they may gave you a perfectly good solution right on the spot. The manager may even sign your receipt saying that if this is the case, they'll make an exception to your return policy.

It just strikes me that you're not even trying.. just complaining because your purchase didn't go exactly how you wanted and your not willing to spend an extra second to making it right. On the otherhand, Target is probably losing thousands and thousands of dollars to theft. Who do you think has better justification?

Very well put, bravo. I try but don't believe putting that much energy into a post since it's like typing to a brick wall.

It shouldnt be a consumers job to jump through hoops to get what you PAID for. Did you lose site of the fact that he paid for this? it wasnt a gift. Target wasnt doing him a favor. Target entered into a business transaction with him and they did not give him what he paid for. He shouldnt have to contact a corporate office etc. Also a policy like this opens the doors for huge fraud potential on a retailers part. Alot of you are so stupid and blind that you think a large retailer wont engage in unethical practices. With a policy like this, a retailer could remove
items, reshrink wrap, sell them, and then say 'hey, its not our fault look at the policy,' Sure, that may sound far fetched but dont think that it cant happen. That's why we have laws that require a mercahnt to accuratley represent products. When you open a box and it's empty, the product was not accuratley represented. This IS fraud. Deal with it you retailer loving fanboys. Consumer rights are more important than targets bottom line. Then again I dont know why I get so worked up about it, I just won't buy from target. All of you morons who like to get trampled on by big business can go there and get ripped off. Have fun losers.

 

[LokiX]

errors

 

[LokiX]

mo errors

 

[LokiX]

 

[LokiX]

Originally posted by: Johnbear007

It shouldnt be a consumers job to jump through hoops to get what you PAID for. Did you lose site of the fact that he paid for this? it wasnt a gift. Target wasnt doing him a favor. Target entered into a business transaction with him and they did not give him what he paid for. He shouldnt have to contact a corporate office etc. Also a policy like this opens the doors for huge fraud potential on a retailers part. Alot of you are so stupid and blind that you think a large retailer wont engage in unethical practices. With a policy like this, a retailer could remove
items, reshrink wrap, sell them, and then say 'hey, its not our fault look at the policy,' Sure, that may sound far fetched but dont think that it cant happen. That's why we have laws that require a mercahnt to accuratley represent products. When you open a box and it's empty, the product was not accuratley represented. This IS fraud. Deal with it you retailer loving fanboys. Consumer rights are more important than targets bottom line. Then again I dont know why I get so worked up about it, I just won't buy from target. All of you morons who like to get trampled on by big business can go there and get ripped off. Have fun losers.

:beer: