Not in My Backyard!

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I really am not a fan of European Muslims and their though process....but you seem like you know quiet well about this. Please help me understand what does integration mean? As far as I know, when an immigrant integrates in a country, it simply means that he plays by the book and follows the law like a normal citizen would. It doesn't mean he dumps his religion, culture, language and dress style into the sea!....but I might be mistaken if you can prove it otherwise.

Integration means not making death threats against cartoonists who poke fun at your ideals, not issuing fatwas against those who take issue with your holy book, not slitting the throats of those that expose the way you treat your women. Need any more examples?

 

[Moonbeam]

I absolutely despise mosquitoes.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I really am not a fan of European Muslims and their though process....but you seem like you know quiet well about this. Please help me understand what does integration mean? As far as I know, when an immigrant integrates in a country, it simply means that he plays by the book and follows the law like a normal citizen would. It doesn't mean he dumps his religion, culture, language and dress style into the sea!....but I might be mistaken if you can prove it otherwise.

Integration means not making death threats against cartoonists who poke fun at your ideals, not issuing fatwas against those who take issue with your holy book, not slitting the throats of those that expose the way you treat your women. Need any more examples?

Yes, because Christians never behave in a similar fashion.

I'm not saying 2 wrongs make a right, just that your logic is flawed.

 

[Butterbean]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Butterbean
I have known and know a lot of good Muslims but the authorities in the mosques are the ones you need to watch out for (and its not cool for mulsims to question authority in the mosques). The Netherlands woke up awhile ago and the people in Europe and UK are very apprehensive but leadership is still often cowardly and appeasment oriented (look at the geldings Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Phillips ). Obama will know doubt let the banned terrorist linked scholars (like Tariq Ramadan) back in and use his "faithe based initiatives" to prmote spread of Islam>


BO:

"Every house of worship that wants to run an effective program and that's willing to abide by our Constitution?from the largest mega-churches and synagogues to the smallest store-front churches and mosques?can and will have access to the information and support they need to run that program," Obama said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-jul02,0,2892982.story

Yay - cant wait until those storefront cells - erm - mosques open up all around the country.




"Thus, wherever an Islamic community exists which is a concrete example of the Divinely-ordained system of life, it has a God-given right to step forward and take control of the political authority so that it may establish the Divine system on earth, while it leaves the matter of belief to individual conscience. When God restrained Muslims from Jihaad for a certain period, it was a question of strategy rather than of principle; this was a matter pertaining to the requirements of the movement and not to belief. Only in the light of this explanation can we understand those verses of the Holy Qur'an which are concerned with the various stages of this movement. "

Sayyid Qutb Al Qaeda Icon and revered by "moderate" Islamic scholars like Tariq Ramadan

http://www.islamistwatch.org/t.../Milestones/jihad.html

Translated from the racist psychopathic, BB is saying that he likes Muslims but only as long as they aren't allowed to have places of worship or to otherwise practice their faith, that he hates Obama for daring to uphold the basic 1st amendment rights of Muslims, he believes McCain will violate those rights, and finally we must fear teh Muslims because they have missionary campaigns similar to Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Mormons.

Always a wonder to watch a guy who thinks like a girl

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Butterbean
I have known and know a lot of good Muslims but the authorities in the mosques are the ones you need to watch out for (and its not cool for mulsims to question authority in the mosques). The Netherlands woke up awhile ago and the people in Europe and UK are very apprehensive but leadership is still often cowardly and appeasment oriented (look at the geldings Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Phillips ). Obama will know doubt let the banned terrorist linked scholars (like Tariq Ramadan) back in and use his "faithe based initiatives" to prmote spread of Islam>


BO:

"Every house of worship that wants to run an effective program and that's willing to abide by our Constitution?from the largest mega-churches and synagogues to the smallest store-front churches and mosques?can and will have access to the information and support they need to run that program," Obama said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-jul02,0,2892982.story

Yay - cant wait until those storefront cells - erm - mosques open up all around the country.




"Thus, wherever an Islamic community exists which is a concrete example of the Divinely-ordained system of life, it has a God-given right to step forward and take control of the political authority so that it may establish the Divine system on earth, while it leaves the matter of belief to individual conscience. When God restrained Muslims from Jihaad for a certain period, it was a question of strategy rather than of principle; this was a matter pertaining to the requirements of the movement and not to belief. Only in the light of this explanation can we understand those verses of the Holy Qur'an which are concerned with the various stages of this movement. "

Sayyid Qutb Al Qaeda Icon and revered by "moderate" Islamic scholars like Tariq Ramadan

http://www.islamistwatch.org/t.../Milestones/jihad.html

Translated from the racist psychopathic, BB is saying that he likes Muslims but only as long as they aren't allowed to have places of worship or to otherwise practice their faith, that he hates Obama for daring to uphold the basic 1st amendment rights of Muslims, he believes McCain will violate those rights, and finally we must fear teh Muslims because they have missionary campaigns similar to Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Mormons.

Always a wonder to watch a guy who thinks like a girl

Like you would have any clue about the opposite sex "Cues dueling banjos"

 

[Butterbean]

I knew you liked country music

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
You got a purdy mouth

:shocked:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Butterbean
I have known and know a lot of good Muslims but the authorities in the mosques are the ones you need to watch out for (and its not cool for mulsims to question authority in the mosques). The Netherlands woke up awhile ago and the people in Europe and UK are very apprehensive but leadership is still often cowardly and appeasment oriented (look at the geldings Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Phillips ). Obama will know doubt let the banned terrorist linked scholars (like Tariq Ramadan) back in and use his "faithe based initiatives" to prmote spread of Islam>


BO:

"Every house of worship that wants to run an effective program and that's willing to abide by our Constitution?from the largest mega-churches and synagogues to the smallest store-front churches and mosques?can and will have access to the information and support they need to run that program," Obama said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-jul02,0,2892982.story

Yay - cant wait until those storefront cells - erm - mosques open up all around the country.




"Thus, wherever an Islamic community exists which is a concrete example of the Divinely-ordained system of life, it has a God-given right to step forward and take control of the political authority so that it may establish the Divine system on earth, while it leaves the matter of belief to individual conscience. When God restrained Muslims from Jihaad for a certain period, it was a question of strategy rather than of principle; this was a matter pertaining to the requirements of the movement and not to belief. Only in the light of this explanation can we understand those verses of the Holy Qur'an which are concerned with the various stages of this movement. "

Sayyid Qutb Al Qaeda Icon and revered by "moderate" Islamic scholars like Tariq Ramadan

http://www.islamistwatch.org/t.../Milestones/jihad.html

Translated from the racist psychopathic, BB is saying that he likes Muslims but only as long as they aren't allowed to have places of worship or to otherwise practice their faith, that he hates Obama for daring to uphold the basic 1st amendment rights of Muslims, he believes McCain will violate those rights, and finally we must fear teh Muslims because they have missionary campaigns similar to Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Mormons.

Always a wonder to watch a guy who thinks like a girl

Really? Is that what you think? And here my thinking is that it's your senseless terror of anything different than you that is womanly.

Not to mention the fact that your little cultural fascism crusade costs me taxdollars (to enforce) and is bad for business.
How about you stop whining and fearmongering, take some responsibility, get up your ass, and get to work? If some black or Muslim manages to get more money and power than you, it's only because you deserved it. That's the American way.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I really am not a fan of European Muslims and their though process....but you seem like you know quiet well about this. Please help me understand what does integration mean? As far as I know, when an immigrant integrates in a country, it simply means that he plays by the book and follows the law like a normal citizen would. It doesn't mean he dumps his religion, culture, language and dress style into the sea!....but I might be mistaken if you can prove it otherwise.

Integration means not making death threats against cartoonists who poke fun at your ideals, not issuing fatwas against those who take issue with your holy book, not slitting the throats of those that expose the way you treat your women. Need any more examples?

These are but excuses and fallacies of arguments that would have no place in any constitutional court, as far as I know.
Swiss Muslims for instance have been overall very well behaved and educated law abiding citizens (Switzerland has a very strict immigration process which I think is good). Yet the Swiss state has been hard at work at preventing them from having their own mosques citing the most of ridiculous of reasons for backing their bigoted decisions such as , mosques not fitting in with the overall Swiss urban look, forcing Swiss Muslims who want to practice their religion in their own house of worship, to have to resort to the usage of converted underground parking garages and disused factories or warehouses as prayer house replacements. In Europe the continent of freedom of belief and free speech that is unheard off.

Source: BBC

This is how European countries help extremism and resentfulness grow. When Muslim immigrants are weak and small in numbers they get harassed and bullied. But once they grow strong in numbers, then they become virtually an unstoppable political force and they remember how they were treated in the past. At that point everyone and his mother starts to complain about how the Muslims have taken over the country and want things their way (and they wouldn't be blamed at that point).

People and especially European citizens need to learn a good lesson from the good ole US of A for once. Here in the US I have seen how the system works, Muslims come expecting an overwhelming discrimination against them, but for the most part they are received like a well respected human ought to be received and they see the beauty of the country and the beauty of equal rights and lack of discrimination, they end up assimilating properly and adopting many ideas they never thought they would ever adopt. The overall successful assimilation of Muslim immigrants in the US ought to be an example that every European country with a good number of Muslim immigrants ought to review and learn from.

Where I live, nearby we (the local Muslim community) have one of the most beautiful mosques in the US, it surprisingly got so accepted by the majority of the non-Muslim locals, that it's almost received as a city landmark where non-Muslims keep going in and out admiring the structure and learning about the culture. Also students are sent from nearby universities on a regular basis to conduct research and come back with their findings and observations for in class discussion.
It's a win win for everyone, as one of the main purposes of mosques in western countries is to act as catalysts for constructive interfaith dialogue. Think about it, if a mosque looks like your average plane old square building, how well would it invoke the passers-by's interest?

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I really am not a fan of European Muslims and their though process....but you seem like you know quiet well about this. Please help me understand what does integration mean? As far as I know, when an immigrant integrates in a country, it simply means that he plays by the book and follows the law like a normal citizen would. It doesn't mean he dumps his religion, culture, language and dress style into the sea!....but I might be mistaken if you can prove it otherwise.

Integration means not making death threats against cartoonists who poke fun at your ideals, not issuing fatwas against those who take issue with your holy book, not slitting the throats of those that expose the way you treat your women. Need any more examples?

These are but excuses and fallacies of arguments that would have no place in any constitutional court, as far as I know.
Swiss Muslims for instance have been overall very well behaved and educated law abiding citizens (Switzerland has a very strict immigration process which I think is good). Yet the Swiss state has been hard at work at preventing them from having their own mosques citing the most of ridiculous of reasons for backing their bigoted decisions such as , mosques not fitting in with the overall Swiss urban look, forcing Swiss Muslims who want to practice their religion in their own house of worship, to have to resort to the usage of converted underground parking garages and disused factories or warehouses as prayer house replacements. In Europe the continent of freedom of belief and free speech that is unheard off.

Source: BBC

This is how European countries help extremism and resentfulness grow. When Muslim immigrants are weak and small in numbers they get harassed and bullied. But once they grow strong in numbers, then they become virtually an unstoppable political force and they remember how they were treated in the past. At that point everyone and his mother starts to complain about how the Muslims have taken over the country and want things their way (and they wouldn't be blamed at that point).

People and especially European citizens need to learn a good lesson from the good ole US of A for once. Here in the US I have seen how the system works, Muslims come expecting an overwhelming discrimination against them, but for the most part they are received like a well respected human ought to be received and they see the beauty of the country and the beauty of equal rights and lack of discrimination, they end up assimilating properly and adopting many ideas they never thought they would ever adopt. The overall successful assimilation of Muslim immigrants in the US ought to be an example that every European country with a good number of Muslim immigrants ought to review and learn from.

Where I live, nearby we (the local Muslim community) have one of the most beautiful mosques in the US, it surprisingly got so accepted by the majority of the non-Muslim locals, that it's almost received as a city landmark where non-Muslims keep going in and out admiring the structure and learning about the culture. Also students are sent from nearby universities on a regular basis to conduct research and come back with their findings and observations for in class discussion.
It's a win win for everyone, as one of the main purposes of mosques in western countries is to act as catalysts for constructive interfaith dialogue. Think about it, if a mosque looks like your average plane old square building, how well would it invoke the passers-by's interest?

Have you ever stopped to think they just might be this way because they do not have the numbers or political power to do otherwise?

Look at the legal\illegal Hispanics and their offspring for example; 20-25 years ago they were fine, they tried hard to assimilate, severe their emotional ties to their old country and devoted themselves to their new one.

As that population grew and continues to grow, the more political clout they gain, the less they are willing to assimilate, the more they maintain emotional ties to their old country over their new one, the more they exert themselves politically and the more want to force their ways and culture.

Muslims would be no different.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker



People and especially European citizens need to learn a good lesson from the good ole US of A for once. Here in the US I have seen how the system works, Muslims come expecting an overwhelming discrimination against them, but for the most part they are received like a well respected human ought to be received and they see the beauty of the country and the beauty of equal rights and lack of discrimination, they end up assimilating properly and adopting many ideas they never thought they would ever adopt. The overall successful assimilation of Muslim immigrants in the US ought to be an example that every European country with a good number of Muslim immigrants ought to review and learn from.

Like Socio said, Europe's muslims = hispanics of the US. Besides its a lot easier to "assimilate" in the US than in Europe I believe. History is short, you dont have any hard-to-get-into traditions etc. etc. And your not as free as you think you are...

 

[hydroponik]

I find it hard to believe that people think this in any way wrong.

In most islamic countries, their government would not even let you build a new chruch or temple, and if it did go down, its worshippers would be harassed or even killed by the muslims population.

Many europeans have a legit gripe with this b/c most of the immigrating muslims do not wish to assimilate into their host country's culture. I just hope their leaders are strong and do not back down to criticisms.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: hydroponik
I find it hard to believe that people think this in any way wrong.

In most islamic countries, their government would not even let you build a new chruch or temple, and if it did go down, its worshippers would be harassed or even killed by the muslims population.

Many europeans have a legit gripe with this b/c most of the immigrating muslims do not wish to assimilate into their host country's culture. I just hope their leaders are strong and do not back down to criticisms.

The US is not other countries. Whatever they may do wherever they are from does not mean we should do the same when doing so would violate the highest law of our land.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: DarkThinker



People and especially European citizens need to learn a good lesson from the good ole US of A for once. Here in the US I have seen how the system works, Muslims come expecting an overwhelming discrimination against them, but for the most part they are received like a well respected human ought to be received and they see the beauty of the country and the beauty of equal rights and lack of discrimination, they end up assimilating properly and adopting many ideas they never thought they would ever adopt. The overall successful assimilation of Muslim immigrants in the US ought to be an example that every European country with a good number of Muslim immigrants ought to review and learn from.

Like Socio said, Europe's muslims = hispanics of the US. Besides its a lot easier to "assimilate" in the US than in Europe I believe. History is short, you dont have any hard-to-get-into traditions etc. etc. And your not as free as you think you are...

The contentious issue in the U.S. is not about hispanics but about illegal immigration which involves hispanics by and large. But it's in your nature to obfuscate such an issue to make it fit your non-argument.

And it's amusing to read about how Muslims are the new jews, the new african-americans, the new hispanics and so forth. If hispanics hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings, if jews start slitting the throats of people who wrote critical pieces about their beliefs, if af-ams issue fatwas against cartoonists, you can bet that they will also be subject to the same scrutiny.

It's no wonder everyone from the UK, to the Danes and Dutch are tightening up their laws to ensure that their open cultures are protected.

 

[piasabird]

You have to love the religion of peace???

Maybe the Europeans should quit candy coating the news and when the news come on instead of youths, they should call them muslim extremists. The truth should not be illegal. If a Mosque teaches hate and preaches violent acts against innocent people, then it is a hate group and not a religion. Not speaking out against violence can be the same as endorsing it. When good men do nothing then evil men take over.

 

[JEDIYoda]

a Mosque probably would not fit in the Op`s back yard! rofl....hahaha

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: hydroponik
I find it hard to believe that people think this in any way wrong.

In most islamic countries, their government would not even let you build a new chruch or temple, and if it did go down, its worshippers would be harassed or even killed by the muslims population.

Many europeans have a legit gripe with this b/c most of the immigrating muslims do not wish to assimilate into their host country's culture. I just hope their leaders are strong and do not back down to criticisms.

What the hell matters what happens in the country from which they came. Are you going to judge them based on how a dysfunctional government works? God save me if I go abroad and people judge me based on how our government has acted for 8 years now. Are you stupid and unaware about the many Christians who DO live among Muslims? Where do you think so many Jews lived for so long before WW2?

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: DarkThinker



People and especially European citizens need to learn a good lesson from the good ole US of A for once. Here in the US I have seen how the system works, Muslims come expecting an overwhelming discrimination against them, but for the most part they are received like a well respected human ought to be received and they see the beauty of the country and the beauty of equal rights and lack of discrimination, they end up assimilating properly and adopting many ideas they never thought they would ever adopt. The overall successful assimilation of Muslim immigrants in the US ought to be an example that every European country with a good number of Muslim immigrants ought to review and learn from.

Like Socio said, Europe's muslims = hispanics of the US. Besides its a lot easier to "assimilate" in the US than in Europe I believe. History is short, you dont have any hard-to-get-into traditions etc. etc. And your not as free as you think you are...

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/hhmcensus1.html

44.3 million

The estimated Hispanic population of the United States as of July 1, 2006, making people of Hispanic origin the nation?s largest ethnic or race minority. Hispanics constituted 15% of the nation's total population.

http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_islam.html
If you google for Muslim Population, you are looking at maybe 50 million...with almost THIRTY THREE milllion coming From Russia, Albania, and whatever the hell Bosnia/Kosovo is now politically.
That brings a population of around 20 million throughout the rest of europe....which is TINY. In NO way is this similar to our own Hispanic population which is set to actually hit 25% by 2050.

Of course let us not care about the actual situation, instead let us focus on mass histeria.

thank god we are in AMERICA where 'assimilation' doesn't mean dropping your language, religion, dress, culture. Culture and society is CONSTANTLY changing, and I welcome very much the additions of other cultures.

Originally posted by: piasabird
You have to love the religion of peace???

Maybe the Europeans should quit candy coating the news and when the news come on instead of youths, they should call them muslim extremists. The truth should not be illegal. If a Mosque teaches hate and preaches violent acts against innocent people, then it is a hate group and not a religion. Not speaking out against violence can be the same as endorsing it. When good men do nothing then evil men take over.

You are an LDS Extremist and your past history has shown that you teach hate and have preached violence as a solution against innocent people. Thank god there are good men that constantly are vigilant to prevent your ilk from trying to run the show.

 

[babylon5]

There is plenty of nonacceptance from all the groups.

SOME people of a religion doesn't accept the idea of criticizing their God in the form of cartoon. And they have the right to do that.

In turn, SOME people of a certain countries doesn't accept the idea of that religion's establish a structure on their soil.

That is what I see is going on. This has never been as big of an issue before 2001. Non-Western religions such as Hindus and Buddhists have been migrating to Europe for a long time. But they haven't clashed like what the other religion is now.
How the hell is the situation going to get better if both sides now just keep sticking each other in the face with cartoons figures/buildings if SOME people from the other side don't accept it, and reject it firmly? Is that how either group wants to resolve this conflict, by sticking each other in the face with something they dont' want?

Jeeze makes me sick.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Who cares?

Stop making Islam threads. Go get a gun and join the army and go kill them. Your threads make me feel sorry for u.

The OP sounds like prewar II German Nazis concerning Jews and American Nazis et al about anyone who is not an European Christian.

 

[chcarnage]

I'm sometimes surprised how the Swiss direct democracy gets my country in the headlines. The fact that 100'000 Swiss support the minarett ban says little about the opinion of a 5 million voting populace. The chances of this ammendment are minimal, and the municipalities will continue to make their decisions based on the individual case.

The muslim population in Switzerland is diverse and mostly moderate, also it has been in the country for a relatively short time (side effect of not having been a colonial power). But there are some mosques and also some with minarets in the country. I don't think that there are many pending minaret projects right now. It's a less polarising issue than some think, because of the circumstances mentioned above, that aren't the same in the neighboring countries.