Not quite Muslim enough 80 killed in Ahamdi mosque

[Zebo]

The Ahmadi's are kinda like a soft Islam, a reformation sect whom abstains from the more barbaric expressions of Islam such as death to infidels, apostates, adulators, homosexuals and the list goes on hard fundis are into. Many many people are killed for being not quite Muslim enough by the harder core belivers. In fact the greatest victims is and has always been fellow Muslims of Islam, not outsiders. Anyway the fundis bombed a Ahmadi Mosque and rips 80 souls to shreds and hundreds injured..

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011981706_pak29.html

More on the Ahamdi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya

Is reformation ever possible? The SS/SA controlled all of Germany with less than 2% hard core believers. 8 million, none Jewish, Germans were killed for not being quite Nazi enough (see German resistance) - Islam has more than 2% fundis in the ummah so it does not look good.

 

[Perknose]

Sometime in the last few decades, the fundies in Pakistan passed a bunch of laws that the Ahmadis couldn't even call themselves Muslim, use Muslim greetings, or even go on the hajj. Tons of other restrictions, too.

The bahai in Iran have been systematically persecuted since their revolution, too, as a heretical Muslim sect.

The sufis (by FAR my fav flavor of Islam, no lie!) have been persecuted in Iran, Pakistan and India as heretics as well.

Sad shite.

 

[The Green Bean]

The army should come out the barracks on the borders and get into the cities. Enough is enough. I want peace. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck the Americans.

 

[nick1985]

The army should come out the barracks on the borders and get into the cities. Enough is enough. I want peace. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck the Americans.

lol

 

[MotF Bane]

So the Ahamdi's are rational?

 

[Sinsear]

The army should come out the barracks on the borders and get into the cities. Enough is enough. I want peace. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck the Americans.

Nukes dropped over pakistan wouldn't be so bad either.

 

[Jaskalas]

Is reformation ever possible? The SS/SA controlled all of Germany with less than 2% hard core believers. Islam has more and 2% in the ummah

There will always be the slaughter of innocents until the innocents take the radicals out back to the wood shed. A loss of 2% of the population would be worth it for the other 98%.

 

[Descartes]

There will always be the slaughter of innocents until the innocents take the radicals out back to the wood shed. A loss of 2% of the population would be worth it for the other 98%.

Sadly, I agree. Enough is enough of this shit. Good people are being held back by these troglodytes. Government isn't going to fix this issue; the people need to make being a radical essentially uncool and unacceptable, attach a stigma to it and make it culturally as backwards as what progressivism (not political progressivism) is to them now.

In reality though, these people are so poor, so uneducated that it won't likely happen. When you literally have almost nothing, there's not much to give you the strength to rise above. It's no different than people born in the US into terrible neighborhoods with terrible parents and see nothing but crime around them. It's the ghetto on a massive scale.

 

[Rainsford]

Sadly, I agree. Enough is enough of this shit. Good people are being held back by these troglodytes. Government isn't going to fix this issue; the people need to make being a radical essentially uncool and unacceptable, attach a stigma to it and make it culturally as backwards as what progressivism (not political progressivism) is to them now.

In reality though, these people are so poor, so uneducated that it won't likely happen. When you literally have almost nothing, there's not much to give you the strength to rise above. It's no different than people born in the US into terrible neighborhoods with terrible parents and see nothing but crime around them. It's the ghetto on a massive scale.

It will happen, eventually. Right now the moderates don't have power in many Islamic countries, but that will change in the same way that every progressive cause started with people who had no power. Civil rights in the US is a good example, where it started out as mostly poor black folks against a government that was more or less officially racist.

Unfortunately I don't think we (as in, western powers) can do much to help other than encourage moderate religious views in our own countries (which we mostly do). We CAN, however, hurt the moderate cause if we are visibly at war with "Islam" and not just the radicals.

 

[Noobtastic]

Wait, did you say 80 innocent civilians butchered by the Zionists?

No?

Well no one cares then. Don't expect the UN or rights groups to give a flying shit.

95% of all victims of Islamic terror are....other muslims. Of non-muslims, I'd say Hindus have born most of the brunt, followed by Jews and Bahis.

Naturally of course, this is all our fault. If it weren't for Western imperialism, everything would be beloved patriot dory and Muslims would not be detonating themselves in mosques, pizza huts, flying planes into buildings.

It truly disturbs how indifferent people are to the wide-scale suffering inflicted in Muslim states, yet so enraged and fiery over settlements and Gazans tripping over rocks.

It is truly disgusting how Muslims treat each other.

 

[theflyingpig]

The army should come out the barracks on the borders and get into the cities. Enough is enough. I want peace. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck the Americans.

lol. The problem is Islam, not the Taliban, not the Americans. The stupidity of religion transcends all borders, nations, and races. Everyone knows this.

 

[Zebo]

It will happen, eventually. Right now the moderates don't have power in many Islamic countries, but that will change in the same way that every progressive cause started with people who had no power. Civil rights in the US is a good example, where it started out as mostly poor black folks against a government that was more or less officially racist.

Unfortunately I don't think we (as in, western powers) can do much to help other than encourage moderate religious views in our own countries (which we mostly do). We CAN, however, hurt the moderate cause if we are visibly at war with "Islam" and not just the radicals.

Truth is things are getting more radical not less. There is a pair University of Cairo photographs of women graduating that sums it up perfect. 1960's all had western attire on while today they are mostly covered. Religious minorities are in more peril than ever in Muslim countries. Some nascent Muslim countries like Indonesia and Nigeria are getting more racial.

I don't believe it will ever progress mainly because like I said it only take a small minority of sociopaths to control a society because 95% of society just wants to live in peace. Certainly does not want to find themselves and thier family at the end of some nut cases saber so they go along with fundi interpretations and way of life just to live.

 

[nick1985]

lol. The problem is Islam, not the Taliban, not the Americans. The stupidity of religion transcends all borders, nations, and races. Everyone knows this.

this

 

[Perknose]

Islam itself is not to blame. This sort of inter-religious persecution is not particular to Islam.

Y'all need a little historical perspective. The following is -- yes, that's right! -- a little historical perspective:

One particular strain, denomination, persuasion or sect within a broader religious grouping slaughtering another?

Teh Noes, this could ONLY happen in Islam!

Tell that to the French Christian Hugenots, gleefully slaughtered by the French Christian Catholics:

In what became known as the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre of 24 August – 3 October 1572, Catholics killed thousands of Huguenots in Paris. Similar massacres took place in other towns in the weeks following. The main provincial towns and cities experiencing the Massacre were Aix, Bordeaux, Bourges, Lyon, Meaux, Orleans, Rouen, Toulouse, and Troyes.[20] Nearly 3,000 Protestants were slaughtered in Toulouse alone.[21] The exact number of fatalities throughout the country is not known.

On the 23–24 August, between about 2,000[22] and 3,000[23][24] Protestants were killed in Paris and between 3,000 [25] and 7,000 more[26] in the French provinces. By the 17th of September, almost 25,000 Protestants had been massacred in Paris alone.[27][28] Outside of Paris, the killings continued until the 3 October.[27] An amnesty granted in 1573 pardoned the perpetrators.

The pattern of warfare, followed by brief periods of peace, continued for nearly another quarter-century.

[...]

By 1620 the Huguenots were on the defensive, and the government increasingly applied pressure.

Small wars in the provinces of Languedoc and Guyenne show Catholic and Calvinist groups using destruction of churches, iconoclasm, forced conversions, and the execution of heretics as weapons of choice.
Louis XIV acted more and more aggressively to force the Huguenots to convert. At first he sent missionaries to convert them, backed by a fund to financially reward converts to Catholicism. Then he imposed penalties and closed their schools and excluded them from favorite professions. Escalating the attack, he tried to forcibly re-Catholicize the Huguenots by the employment of armed dragonnades (soldiers) to occupy and loot their houses. In 1685, Louis XIV revoked the Edict of Nantes and declared Protestantism to be illegal in the Edict of Fontainebleau.

The revocation forbade Protestant services, the children were to be educated as Catholics, and emigration was prohibited. It proved disastrous to the Huguenots and costly for France. It precipitated civil bloodshed, ruined commerce, and resulted in the illegal flight from the country of about 180,000 Protestants, many of whom became intellectuals, doctors and business leaders in Britain as well as Holland, Prussia and South Africa. 4000 went to the American colonies. The English welcomed the French refugees, providing money from both government and private agencies to aid their relocation. Those Huguenots who stayed in France became Catholics and were called "new converts."[30]

As in Africa, the societies in Islamic countries are decades behind the West in social development.

It is not specifically the religion of Islam that is to blame, most areas that are now countries in Europe have gone through their prior periods of lethal religious strife.

It is the relatively backward state of the development of civil society in the Islamic countries that is the culprit.

THE VERY SAME murderous ignorance is practiced by the extremest Hindu parties in India!

Again, it is not specifically Islam that is to blame.

Saying so is an ignorant mistake best left to be brayed and bellowed by the ahistorical simpletons on this forum.

 

[Noobtastic]

Perknose, Christianity had an enlightenment - unlike Islam.

But even in its most extreme state, Christinianity has never leveled the sheer number of deaths and destruction Islam has.

Nearly 80 million Hindus were exterminated by Arab conquerors in 4 centuries.

One Caliphate ruler demanded 100,000 hindu heads A DAY.

Genocidal warlords like Saladin continue to be romanticized by Muslims.

Remember - Jesus was a peacemaker, Mohamed was a warrior.

Christians don't detonate their children.

 

[The Green Bean]

Nukes dropped over pakistan wouldn't be so bad either.

That would result in turning India and Israel into glass.

 

[The Green Bean]

Sadly, I agree. Enough is enough of this shit. Good people are being held back by these troglodytes. Government isn't going to fix this issue; the people need to make being a radical essentially uncool and unacceptable, attach a stigma to it and make it culturally as backwards as what progressivism (not political progressivism) is to them now.

In reality though, these people are so poor, so uneducated that it won't likely happen. When you literally have almost nothing, there's not much to give you the strength to rise above. It's no different than people born in the US into terrible neighborhoods with terrible parents and see nothing but crime around them. It's the ghetto on a massive scale.

In reality, the people have resigned to the fact that they voted for an incompetent government. Military rule was so much better.

 

[The Green Bean]

Wait, did you say 80 innocent civilians butchered by the Zionists?

No?

Well no one cares then. Don't expect the UN or rights groups to give a flying shit.

95% of all victims of Islamic terror are....other muslims. Of non-muslims, I'd say Hindus have born most of the brunt, followed by Jews and Bahis.

Naturally of course, this is all our fault. If it weren't for Western imperialism, everything would be beloved patriot dory and Muslims would not be detonating themselves in mosques, pizza huts, flying planes into buildings.

It truly disturbs how indifferent people are to the wide-scale suffering inflicted in Muslim states, yet so enraged and fiery over settlements and Gazans tripping over rocks.

It is truly disgusting how Muslims treat each other.

It's unfair to blame all muslims. The main problem today are the barbarian Wahabis. Nobody likes them. 99% of extremist attacks are carried out by them. The sad part is that the greedy USA is sleeping with them in SA. They're the source of terrorism, not Afghanistan not Pakistan. Take out the funding for brainwashing and for the ammunition and you kill the threat.

Another problem is the obvious loopholes in the British law system. There is so much red-tapism that a common man hardly ever gets justice. It might be changing slightly with the advent of the free media, but largely it's the same. That was one reason why the taliban were so popular in Swat. However, when there brutality was seen people denounced them. People are not happy with the current justice system, but it's better than the Taliban's version. Then there is Islamic law which in theory still remains. However, there are so many schools of thought on how when and what punishments should be handed out that it's never going to work.

I also feel that the international community is not being very helpful to us, the people of Pakistan. They are abandoning us and labelling us all as terrorists. Go to any USA airport, and you'll get special treatment just because you are Pakistan. Why the hell did you even give us a visa if thought I might be a terrorist? Why humiliate me at airports? Rejecting visas is another matter. I would say that the U.K has done much better in this regard.

An indian friend of mine visited Pakistan. The next time he visited the USA, the interrogated him for two hours. Now he refuses to come to Pakistan and calls us terrorists.

So then, after being treated like a sub-par citizen of the world, why exactly should I let the USA bomb my territory. To hell with them.

 

[SoCalAznGuy]

Perknose, Christianity had an enlightenment - unlike Israel.

But even in its most extreme state, Christinianity has never leveled the sheer number of deaths and destruction Islam has.

Nearly 80 million Hindus were exterminated by Arab conquerors in 4 centuries.

One Caliphate ruler demanded 100,000 hindu heads A DAY.

Genocidal warlords like Saladin continue to be romanticized by Muslims.

Remember - Jesus was a peacemaker, Mohamed was a warrior.

Christians don't detonate their children.

LMFAO

I agree Islam is crap, but christianity isn't much better.

Here are some great bible quotes.

Luke 19:27

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Here Jesus refers to the unbelievers (those who won't grovel at his feet) as his enemies and orders his slaves (mindless worshipers) to kill the unbelievers.

Matthew 10:34-37

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "

Here Jesus reminds his followers that he isn't hear to bring peace to the world, but to bring war. To force families to fight and kill each others.

Peacemaker LMFAO

 

[Noobtastic]

LMFAO

I agree Islam is crap, but christianity isn't much better.

Here are some great bible quotes.

Luke 19:27

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Here Jesus refers to the unbelievers (those who won't grovel at his feet) as his enemies and orders his slaves (mindless worshipers) to kill the unbelievers.

Matthew 10:34-37

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "

Here Jesus reminds his followers that he isn't hear to bring peace to the world, but to bring war. To force families to fight and kill each others.

Peacemaker LMFAO

Yes, Jesus was a peacemaker.

Mohamed was a warrior.

Islam was a religion of war. Christianity was exploited several centuries after its creation.

And yes, Christianity is far better than Islam. Western civilization is predicated on Christian traditions.

hell, the bible was the ACLU of 2000BC.

7th century quran on the other hand was merely a bastardized revision of judaic and christian teachings, with an extremely war-based overtones.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

Nothing will change until the 99% of the population of these countries that aren't pieces of shit will find a backbone.

Would you tolerate a training camp in your town? I'm pretty sure militias would start up and we'd be clear of this shit in a couple years on our own soil. But 800 years for them isn't enough. Gotta keep fighting wars because their mud is browner than yours.

 

[SoCalAznGuy]

Yes, Jesus was a peacemaker.

Mohamed was a warrior.

Islam was a religion of war. Christianity was exploited several centuries after its creation.

And yes, Christianity is far better than Islam. Western civilization is predicated on Christian traditions.

hell, the bible was the ACLU of 2000BC.

7th century quran on the other hand was merely a bastardized revision of judaic and christian teachings, with an extremely war-based overtones.

LMFAO

have you read the fucking bible. Both the "New" and Old testament are full of hate, killing, and discrimination. God (Jesus) was a blood thirsty savage who demanded the blood of his enemies.

 

[The Green Bean]

If it wasn't for the Mongols, Islamic civilzation would have been light years ahead of the west.

 

[MotF Bane]

If it wasn't for the Mongols, Islamic civilzation would have been light years ahead of the west.

If if if. We can play the what if game forever, and it changes nothing.

 

[nick1985]

If it wasn't for the Mongols, Islamic civilzation would have been light years ahead of the west.

If it wasnt for the plague Christian civilization would have been light years above the east.