Not seeing much difference between DVD and blu-ray

[Genx87]

Transformers is probably one of the best examples of HD quality out there. Another movie that looks really good in HD is Blades of Glory.

 

[PurdueRy]

Dark knight is fantastic...especially in the IMAX filmed scenes

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Transformers is probably one of the best examples of HD quality out there. Another movie that looks really good in HD is Blades of Glory.

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Dark knight is fantastic...especially in the IMAX filmed scenes

Yes Genx87 and PurdueRy but those are hollywood films of course they will have awesome transfers. I want all my blu ray films to have awesome transfers no matter if they are rare, foreign, or hollywood films. Sure every now and then I can watch a hollywood film but more and more they are getting old. Same old formula over and over again. There is no creative anymore. Ok there is always a select few hollywood films that may but it is so few.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Dark knight is fantastic...especially in the IMAX filmed scenes

I concur. I just watched it last week, and it looked incredible.

Edit: Also, this thread finally inspired me to order DVE basics in BD. I've been using the settings off of avsforum, but I know those settings should be different on different TVs and in different settings, so I really should've done the calibration a long time ago. Also, for anyone who might benefit from it, here's Avical's DVE User-Level Video Calibration Tutorial. I tucked that link away a long time ago knowing I'd need it eventually .

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: mshan
This guy has some tuning parameters you could try for various Vizo tvs: http://www.tweaktv.com/tweak-my-tv/vizio-2.html

he didn't have the 42" tv but he had the 47" version of the same model so i used those settings. watching Ratatouille and it looks awesome. Don't have a DVD to compare though.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex
I have a 42" vizio 1080p LCD HDTV and a PS3. I'm watching Transformers, which is a rated as a tier 0 reference quality blu-ray and I don't see much, if any, difference between it and the DVD version.

well, if you can't see the difference with Transformers, then I should probably refer you to your own thread where you mention your ruptured cornea.

it is true that some BD transfers are shitstains, but others are far and away better than their DVD counterparts.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
How far away are you from the screen?

Are you looking for differences in color as well as resolution?

How are you comparing one to the other?

About 10 feet

That's too far to get the full benefit of 1080p for a screen that size.

According to this chart which I've used too much, at 10 feet away from a 42" screen, you'll only see some of the benefit of 720p over 480p, let alone 1080p vs. 720p.
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

I don't understand

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...inch10feetistoofar.png

X-axis represents screen size
(your 42" screen size is marked in red now)

Y-axis represents your seating distance
(your 10' viewing distance is marked in black now)

The intersection of your screen size and viewing distance indicates what resolution you'll be able to resolve with 20/20 vision.

For example, with your 42" display (red vertical line), if you were to sit 15 feet away from it, you wouldn't be able to tell any difference between 480p and anything higher if you consider resolution only.

If you were sitting 5 feet away from the same 42" display (still on the red vertical line), you'd be able to fully resolve 1080p and would even see some benefit going higher (when 1440p is available... or whatever comes out next after 1080p).

At your 10 feet viewing distance, you're in the area between the green and blue lines, meaning that you will not be able to fully resolve 720p with 20/20 vision, but you will see some benefit over what a 480p signal would give you.

When considering resolution only, you are too far away from the TV to get the full benefit of 1080p and even too far away to get the full benefit of 720p.

this shit is retarded...

Why? It's legit optics that apply to many other areas beyond "HD entertainment."

It's the exact opposite of retarded, as these resolutions are calibrated to achieve certain affects based on screen size and distance.

The only retarded thing is someone dropping $$ on a 1080p LCD and PS3 and then refuse to understand how to actually use their investment.

so yeah, that is pretty damn retarded.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: pontifex
this shit is retarded...

Heh... which part? That chart just shows how close you have to sit to a given screen size to see the full detail of a specific resolution. So for your 42" screen you would need to sit roughly 5.5 to 6 feet away, or closer, to see the full detail of 1080p resolution.

it's retarded that you have to follow some stupid chart just to get good picture quality. i don't even understand the point of having blu-ray or hdtv resolutions if you have to sit that close or why they even make hdtvs in anytihng under 50" if it doesn't do a damn thing at all.

...sigh


well, as others have mentioned, resolution is the least necessary component for HD PQ (not that it doesn't matter). Color depth and contrast can be seen at any viewing distance, of course.

If you can't see these differences between BD and DVD then I don't know what to tell you, other than you may need to calibrate your LCD.

Have you done that yet?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: pontifex
this shit is retarded...

Heh... which part? That chart just shows how close you have to sit to a given screen size to see the full detail of a specific resolution. So for your 42" screen you would need to sit roughly 5.5 to 6 feet away, or closer, to see the full detail of 1080p resolution.

it's retarded that you have to follow some stupid chart just to get good picture quality. i don't even understand the point of having blu-ray or hdtv resolutions if you have to sit that close or why they even make hdtvs in anytihng under 50" if it doesn't do a damn thing at all.

Oh no, people should research things before they buy them!

sorry, but i don't see how sitting X feet from the TV, when it is X size, while standing on your head, reciting the Koran backwards, and farting amazing grace at the same time to get a good picture quality is research. it's a fucking tv and video player, not rocket science. it should look good at any distance.

i did enough research on actually choosing a tv that fit my budget and had the features i wanted. i shouldn't have to worry about distance and picture quality. its just retarded that it doesn't work at normal viewing distances.

they tout hdtv and blu-ray as so great, but no one tells you anything else. you shouldn't have to go to forums and learn formulas just to watch fucking tv.

Hey, I agree with the last part, but don't think for a second that this stuff doesn't matter. What do you think the engineers that design this equipment have to understand before they can make it?

Technology doesn't appear out of a vacuum. There is science behind all of this. The human eye, in anyone, has very real resolving limits. Do you understand what 20/20 means? how resolution is calculated by viewing distance--the eyes ability to resolve certain sizes at certain distances.

this has been around LONG before TVs became too complicated for you. the viewing distance to screen size to max resolution is THE EXACT SAME CONCEPT.

what your'e not understanding about this:

1. yes, it does look good at any distance. the further away you sit, the more resolved it will appear. this is merely common sense.

2. to take advantage of your 1080p, and actually notice the resolution difference between DVD and BD, is where viewing distance comes into play. sit 5 feet from your TV and then compare DVD to BD. If that doesn't do it, then you are truly lost.

3. regardless, the other benefits of PQ that BD offers: color depth, contrast, whatever, should be apparent at any distance, and comparably better than DVD at any distance as well.

does that make sense?


yeah...i know this thread is a few days old....but I go along and post as I read

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: bendixG15

Originally posted by: pontifex
this shit is retarded...

Agreed .........I want to watch a movie .... Not perform a technical analysis of the photograph on the screen.

Do you play PC games on the lowest resolution with all the eye candy off, too?

no, but you don't have to go through hoops to make it look good. it's just a few simple settings. and it looks good on just about any size monitor.

Now stand ten feet away from the monitor.

why would i stand 10 feet from the monitor?

/facepalm

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
10ft viewing distance, you should've gotten a 50" 720p plasma. And Vizio isn't known for having the best colors/contrast...

i'm sorry i don't have 1000s of dollars to spend on a top of the line tv...

pretty damn far from top of the line, chief.

plus I think Vizio dropped the plasma line, no?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: pontifex
i started watching black hawk down today (BD). the picture seems better in this movie at 10' than transformers did. i moved to 6 feet andit looks grainier than at 10'. i don't have a dvd of this so i can't compare dvd vs. bd

That's good. You're starting to see the detail if it looks grainy. That movie is purposefully grainy.

what spidey said. Blackhawk down is a grainy film

never forget: grainy = quality, real detail. It's film, not some airbrushed POS.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SithSolo1
Some people just can't tell the difference.

Take my father for example. I've got a 58" tv and every sitting potion in the room is between 7 and 9'. If I were to show him a scene from Transfomers on DVD and then immediately one from Blu-Ray, he'd say they were the same.

I on the other hand can spot a "night and day difference" as you put it. The colors pop and the image is much more crisp.

Fuck, my 59 yo pop is as colorblind as you can get, can't resolve a damn thing without his glasses, and he was STUNNED when I popped in Planet Earth on my "piddly" 720p 42" plasma.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: pontifex
Just watched Role Models one BD and that definitely looked better than DVD quality. It was really sharp and clear. I guess it depends on the movies too.

So you see a big difference in role models but not transformers?

yep, except for the close-ups of the transformers. they look better than DVD but the rest of the movie doesn't seem better than dvd

and this was at 10' too

Alright, I know what's going on here. You're coming out of the denial stage. I went through this too. I ahd watched several DVDs, (most of them very decent transfers, I've come to learn) before going BD on my plasma.

First BD I watched was Curse of the Golden Flower. GF and I were "OMG blinded by the COLORS! GAHHH!" but that was mostly it. I was now wowed by much more. It did look crips, but frighteningly sharp in terms of color.

I started watching more and more. especially SD TV and the DVDs that I have. It took several BD to train my eyes to what was going on. I was initially of the "So this BD looks damn good, but I have DVDs that still look gorgeous-Kill Bill 1, for example." after 1 month or 2, it got to the point where every little flaw in the DVD became rudely apparent.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Your eyes see more detail at closer distances, and less detail at farther distances.

So science (specifically biology) is now "bs"?

no, but 10' vs. 6'?? it's that much of a difference. thats like 2 steps for me. i we were talking like 50' vs. 10', then i might agree with you.

10' to 6' is almost halving the distance.

For reference, a 42" display at 6' is a 28.5 degree viewing angle.

At 10 feet away, that's equivalent to a 70" display.

Saying sitting at 10 feet vs. 6 feet doesn't matter is about equivalent to saying that it doesn't matter if the TV is 42" or 70" if you were to stay at 10 feet away.

That's over 2.75 times the screen size.

At this point he really doesn't want to see a difference. Once you get to that point there is no standing for reason. Kinda like those reviews of how power cables/digital interconnects really improved the "tightness" of their bass and "widened the soundstage" and sounded more "transparent"

i spent all that money because I DIDN'T want to see a difference? WTF? are you insane?

I do see a slight difference, but not the major difference i was expecting. YES, EVEN AT THE RETARDEDLY ARBITRARY DISTANCE OF 6'!! which i've proved doesn't do a damn thing vs. the 10' i've been sitting at.

It's not arbitrary. This is the kind of knowledge that was necessary to invent such essential human tools telescope and the microscope. It is the EXACT SAME SCIENCE.

Do you honestly think that some confused and angry internet dude claiming ARBITRARY SCIENCE NUMBERS WAHHHHH!!!! is going to bring 2 mellenia of accepted and well-documented natural law to its knees?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
^Most TV's are set on "blow torch" mode from the factory, so they'll jump out at you in brightly-lit stores. They usually need to have brightness and contrast turned down to see everything properly. I've seen some BR's that have a calibration place on the menu.....sort of like the THX Optimizer that's on a lot of DVD's.

this.

make sure brightness is somewhere below 50% of max, nearly the same with contrast.

depends on your TV. AVS has a thread for every TV model out there. find yours, and see what settings others have used and mess around with those.

It's a pretty easy way to go straight to the gut (use what others have learned--let them do the work, you know? )

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Dark knight is fantastic...especially in the IMAX filmed scenes

Dark Knight is an abomination of PQ, except for the IMAX scenes.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: pontifex
sorry, but i don't see how sitting X feet from the TV, when it is X size, while standing on your head, reciting the Koran backwards, and farting amazing grace at the same time to get a good picture quality is research. it's a fucking tv and video player, not rocket science. it should look good at any distance.

i did enough research on actually choosing a tv that fit my budget and had the features i wanted. i shouldn't have to worry about distance and picture quality. its just retarded that it doesn't work at normal viewing distances.

they tout hdtv and blu-ray as so great, but no one tells you anything else. you shouldn't have to go to forums and learn formulas just to watch fucking tv.

To be fair though, this is sort of like complaining that no one told you that you couldn't read the book you just bought from 10 feet away. Granted, the TV is less obvious, but it's the same principle. This isn't some artificial limitation, but rather a limitation of the human eye.

i don't even know how to respond to this because it makes absolutely no sense. thats like comparing the 13" tv in the post above...i'm not trying ot look at something tiny from 10' away. I'm lookin gat something huge from 10' away.

To continue beating the dead horse... Actually you are not looking at something HUGE from 10' away. You are looking at the pixel resolution that is available on that 42" screen. That screen has 1920x1080 pixels (which means there are 1920 dots left to right and 1080 dots top to bottom) on the screen. Now lets do some math (yes, math, specifically geometry). The 42" screen is actually the diagonal measurement of the screen. I am assuming that the TV is a 16:9 ratio widescreen display (the most common in TV formats), which means there for every 16 units wide, there are 9 units in height. Knowing this and the diagonal measurement, we can calculate what the true width/height of your TV is using the old, Pythagoras, a^2 + b^2 = c^2.... (16x)^2 + (9x)^2 = 42^2.... 337x^2 = 1764.... x = 2.28788".... and then plugging back into the ratios, we know that your TV screen should be 36.606" wide and 20.591" in height.

Now, lets get back to that 1920x1080 pixels part... Since there are 1920 pixels in 36.606", that means each pixel is 0.019065625" in width, and guess what, the same exact height (don't round any of the previous math answers, like your actual screen width and height calculations like I did in here). So you are telling me, that thought your eye can distinguish something 0.019065625" square from 10 feet away? That is essentially what you are trying to do.... Again, since you know enough to post in internet forums like this, you should have known how to do research.

HD screens simply let you get CLOSER to the screen then a non-HD screen without losing image quality from pixelization (i.e. being able to easily see and distinguish individual pixels from an image). The human eye works in a 3D world, and it is spherical as a result. It also distinguishes between objects in degrees (just like how there are 360 degrees in a circle). Because of this, the farther away you are from an object, the larger that same degree of separation that your eye can detect become (just look at how much larger a 45degree sweep of a 2" circle is from a 4" circle, its the same angle, just longer distance).

A higher resolution screen will let you get closer to that TV than you could because there are so many more pixels and that much smaller that your eye can distinguish more of them when you are closer to the TV. But, as you have seen, if you are so far away from the TV that the smallest object that your eye can actually detect is larger than the size of the pixels on the screen, you will not be able to detect a difference in the screen itself since it surpasses what your eye can physically detect. All the charts out there and posted in this thread are reference material to help people who are buying TVs determine the size of the screen for their viewing distance. I am sorry no one mentioned this in the thread here, but if it was posted on AVSforums, it would have been the first question asked.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

I just got a bluray player and it barely looks better than my upscaled
DVDs from my Pioneer. The big difference though was the sound. BD audio is amazing even just running it through my TV.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
I just got a bluray player and it barely looks better than my upscaled
DVDs from my Pioneer. The big difference though was the sound. BD audio is amazing even just running it through my TV.

 

[pcslookout]

Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
I just got a bluray player and it barely looks better than my upscaled
DVDs from my Pioneer. The big difference though was the sound. BD audio is amazing even just running it through my TV.

I have to agree.

 

[pontifex]

I picked up a copy of Over Ireland at Costco (9.99) on blu-ray and it looks amazing. It's a PBS show or whatever where they fly over Ireland and give some info about the stuff you see. Its not really in depth or anything and runs an hour long, but its got some beautiful scenery.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: bl4ckfl4g
I just got a bluray player and it barely looks better than my upscaled
DVDs from my Pioneer. The big difference though was the sound. BD audio is amazing even just running it through my TV.

I have to agree.

What audio tracks are you guys using from the blu-ray discs on your TVs?

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

That's too far to get the full benefit of 1080p for a screen that size.

According to this chart which I've used too much, at 10 feet away from a 42" screen, you'll only see some of the benefit of 720p over 480p, let alone 1080p vs. 720p.
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

This is why I eagerly anticipate a 73" in the price range I'm comfortable with
(have a 65" currently)

Found this on Fat Wallet...