Not that it matters for impeachment but yeah there was a quid pro quo- per Mulvaney.

[Muse]

Funny thing about that. Moscow Mitch tried to get senators to sign a pledge to acquit no matter what and the response wasn't great. As McConnell won't be leading the trial he has no say once the trial actually begins and there will be one.

I will be glad of at least one thing. Trump's ego will get battered. He has it coming.

 

[Jhhnn]

Mulvaney is obfuscating insanely in trying to walk it back-

“Let me be clear, there was absolutely no quid pro quo between Ukrainian military aid and any investigation into the 2016 election,” he said. “The president never told me to withhold any money until the Ukrainians did anything related to the server. The only reasons we were holding the money was because of concern about lack of support from other nations and concerns over corruption.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry-live-updates/2019/10/17/137bd92e-f056-11e9-89eb-ec56cd414732_story.html

The first two sentences are immaterial bullshit. The third is an outright lie.

 

[Indus]

Fucking crazy town. Mulvaney was in on this Ukraine business as well, wasn't he? An outright criminal as President, admitting to it openly because he can't be arrested.. They know his fanatic supporters could care less so long as they think it's making his non supporters angry.

This is why it's going to be a shitshow if he loses the next election. His fanatics will not care what he does to try and overturn the results, so long as it's screwing over the other side. They don't even have the awareness to see that Trump doing this thing with Ukraine means HE knows he's in trouble in the next election, and knows he needs to pull scams again.

What's scary is that now that his Ukraine scam is out, he's going to have to try something else. What batshit insanity will he run with now? That letter he wrote the Turkish president was completely fucking bonkers, anything is on the table with this lunatic.

We are already bombing our own bases in Syria, how long till we're bombing our own cities?

 

[dawp]

This is what passes for a smart person in this admin.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184950724045758464

Earlier Mulvaney: Of course we did the quid pro quo for political reasons to get this thing and it's totally normal.

*some time passes and thrown under the bus by the DOJ and Trump's lawyers amid media and congressional shitstorm*

Later Mulvaney: Never mind . Absolutely no quid pro quo. Just forget I confessed to crimes.

love to get him under oath

 

[trenchfoot]

So now we finally know why Trump can claim he is the smartest guy in his administration: Most of the ones that are smarter than him have left in disgust, the others (low bar losers) can't get jobs anywhere else and are stuck there sucking up to him and the ones that are dumber than he is (yes, dumber ones do actually exist)----->are all from his base.

 

[cytg111]

Mulvaney :

 

[dawp]

you can bet mick will try to get his house seat again or try for the senate after this admin crashes and burns.

or even governor of NC. he will not go quietly into the night

he just doesn't look all that intelligent, like that of a rutabaga

 

[cytg111]

you can bet mick will try to get his house seat again or try for the senate after this admin crashes and burns.

or even governor of NC. he will not go quietly into the night

he just doesn't look all that intelligent, like that of a rutabaga

Well it is objectively more fun if they scream.

 

[HomerJS]

We all heard Mic's confession of a quid pro quo. Mic admitted they strong armed Ukraine into investigating a debunked conspiracy theory. HE left out the second part of that "request" to investigate the Bidens but we'll skip that for now. Later that same day he walked back his quid pro quo.

Often the MSM, media are blamed when news is not favorable. Trump and the GOP frequently blaming the media for their screwups. But hey, maybe they have a point.

Is Mulvaney's accusation the press is responsible, correct?

 

[fskimospy]

It’s not even a good lie. When he first made the comments reporters asked him for confirmation and he gave it.

 

[Brainonska511]

This really is stupid Watergate.

 

[woolfe9998]

The media told the truth about what he said, but may have made too much of it. He didn't mention investigation of the Bidens, and he did say that the conspiracy theory over 2016 was only part of the reason they withheld the aid. But it doesn't really matter because there is plenty of evidence of quid pro quo from the call summary itself, and plenty more from witnesses who have testified before the House committees.

 

[fskimospy]

The media told the truth about what he said, but may have made too much of it. He didn't mention investigation of the Bidens, and he did say that the conspiracy theory over 2016 was only part of the reason they withheld the aid. But it doesn't really matter because there is plenty of evidence of quid pro quo from the call summary itself, and plenty more from witnesses who have testified before the House committees.

Even if it were true that the two investigation requests were not linked - and all evidence indicates they absolutely were, I'm not sure it's any better to say 'no, we were asking for a quid pro quo on this OTHER politically motivated investigation!'

 

[VRAMdemon]

As I understand it: Trump has asked Ukraine to investigate 2 things, equally stupid and equally illegal: 1) dirt on the Bidens and 2) corroboration of the conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that was behind the hack of the DNC servers in 2016 -- and that the server itself may actually physically be in Ukrainian hands. Mulvaney admitted to the quid pro quo for the latter, but not the former. I could be wrong.

Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that's it. That's why we held up the money...Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy."

They held up the money to investigate the DNC. Quid pro quo against his political opponent, the DNC.

The DOJ is distancing itself from the White House in the wake of Mulvaney's admission.

"Senior DOJ official, reacting to Mulvaney: "If the White House was withholding aid in regards to the cooperation of any investigation at the Department of Justice, that is news to us.”

The ass-picking hand doesn't know what the nose-picking hand is doing?

 

[fskimospy]

As I understand it: Trump has asked Ukraine to investigate 2 things, equally stupid and equally illegal: 1) dirt on the Bidens and 2) corroboration of the conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that was behind the hack of the DNC servers in 2016 -- and that the server itself may actually physically be in Ukrainian hands. Mulvaney admitted to the quid pro quo for the latter, but not the former. I could be wrong.

Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that's it. That's why we held up the money...Get over it. There's going to be political influence in foreign policy."

They held up the money to investigate the DNC. Quid pro quo against his political opponent, the DNC.

The DOJ is distancing itself from the White House in the wake of Mulvaney's admission.

"Senior DOJ official, reacting to Mulvaney: "If the White House was withholding aid in regards to the cooperation of any investigation at the Department of Justice, that is news to us.”

The ass-picking hand doesn't know what the nose-picking hand is doing?

I think this sort of thing is pretty common in conspiracies that are falling apart like this one is. Everyone is trying to save themselves and so they don't coordinate their lies well. Each time someone makes a new lie to cover their ass it usually conflicts with a lie already told so then a new lie must be made and the cycle repeats.

 

[woolfe9998]

Even if it were true that the two investigation requests were not linked - and all evidence indicates they absolutely were, I'm not sure it's any better to say 'no, we were asking for a quid pro quo on this OTHER politically motivated investigation!'

If in theory this had only been about 2016, Trump and his cronies will try to pitch it as a concern over our election security (LOL) as opposed to something which benefits him politically. I guess in theory it's a clearer case if it had to do with Biden. That said, it's clear that these investigation requests were linked. I also think it's going to be even clearer once they release full transcripts of the depositions which have been taken so far as it appears that none of these witnesses are going out of their way to help Trump.

 

[dawp]

I haven't actually watch the vid, I prefer to read, don't go out of my way to listen to the grating voices, esp trumps.

I usually get my info from various sources, and what he did say if we give you this, that is expected from you. quid pro quo for sure. mick did confirm, pretty hard to deny it.

 

[HomerJS]

Weren't we(well most of us) taught telling the truth is easier because you only have to remember one story?

 

[fskimospy]

If in theory this had only been about 2016, Trump and his cronies will try to pitch it as a concern over our election security (LOL) as opposed to something which benefits him politically. I guess in theory it's a clearer case if it had to do with Biden. That said, it's clear that these investigation requests were linked. I also think it's going to be even clearer once they release full transcripts of the depositions which have been taken so far as it appears that none of these witnesses are going out of their way to help Trump.

Yeah you're right that it's an easier A->B if it's explicitly about Biden. Then again in the end I think what we need to focus on is that the quid pro quo is fundamentally irrelevant. It would still be an enormous crime and absolutely impeachable if Trump had never offered a single thing in return for Ukraine investigating Biden.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yeah you're right that it's an easier A->B if it's explicitly about Biden. Then again in the end I think what we need to focus on is that the quid pro quo is fundamentally irrelevant. It would still be an enormous crime and absolutely impeachable if Trump had never offered a single thing in return for Ukraine investigating Biden.

I agree it's a clear crime with or without quid pro quo. But impeachment is political rather than strictly legal. At the end of the day, since the GOP is unlikely to vote for removal regardless of the facts, what matters most is how all of this is perceived by voters. In that regard, the clearer the case for quid pro quo, the easier it will be to explain to wavering swing voters why what Trump did was so wrong. While I think the case for quid pro quo has been proven from what we already know, we need evidence in the form of a concise soundbite in order to sway those voters. Mulvaney didn't quite give us that, which is why I think the media (especially CNN) is overplaying this.

 

[Homerboy]

This really is stupid Watergate.

Even that is still insulting to Watergate.
Kids stealing cookies from the cookie jar hide their tracks and lie better than this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The media told the truth about what he said, but may have made too much of it. He didn't mention investigation of the Bidens, and he did say that the conspiracy theory over 2016 was only part of the reason they withheld the aid. But it doesn't really matter because there is plenty of evidence of quid pro quo from the call summary itself, and plenty more from witnesses who have testified before the House committees.

He didn't mention the Bidens, this is entirely new and constitutes a separate criminal act in order to damage Democrats over a server that apparently does not exist, if it can be shown as an effort to benefit Trump's election.

 

[woolfe9998]

He didn't mention the Bidens, this is entirely new and constitutes a separate criminal act in order to damage Democrats over a server that apparently does not exist, if it can be shown as an effort to benefit Trump's election.

Of course! But if I was a dishonest Trump mouthpiece, I would argue it like this: our intelligence community investigated election interference in 2016 and came to a certain conclusion. We have information suggesting that this may have been incorrect. We therefore have a duty to get all the facts here to determine what really happened. If we do not get all the facts, how will we guard against such interference in the future.

You and I both know that this is a total lie, that Trump's obsession with 2016 stems from a politically motivated conspiracy theory meant to implicate democrats. But we're not the targets of Trump's messaging. The purpose of this kind of argument is to give the repugs in the Senate a fig leaf of cover to justify their refusal to throw Trump out of office. And also at swing voters who may have some misgivings about Trump and some concerns about his conduct here, but do not see him as clearly as do you and I.

That's why it plays as a clearer case if the quid pro quo had to do with Biden.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course! But if I was a dishonest Trump mouthpiece, I would argue it like this: our intelligence community investigated election interference in 2016 and came to a certain conclusion. We have information suggesting that this may have been incorrect. We therefore have a duty to get all the facts here to determine what really happened. If we do not get all the facts, how will we guard against such interference in the future.

You and I both know that this is a total lie, that Trump's obsession with 2016 stems from a politically motivated conspiracy theory meant to implicate democrats. But we're not the targets of Trump's messaging. The purpose of this kind of argument is to give the repugs in the Senate a fig leaf of cover to justify their refusal to throw Trump out of office. And also at swing voters who may have some misgivings about Trump and some concerns about his conduct here, but do not see him as clearly as do you and I.

That's why it plays as a clearer case if the quid pro quo had to do with Biden.

I mean he had no choice but to send his shady personal lawyer to pressure them instead of law enforcement!

Yes though, all they need is the smallest fig leaf and they will take it. It's too bad Mulvaney walked back his statement (however comically unconvincingly) as I was looking forward to all the Republicans who said 'this isn't a problem but I would feel differently if there was a quid pro quo' coming up with a new excuse to do nothing.

 

[HomerJS]

Of course! But if I was a dishonest Trump mouthpiece, I would argue it like this: our intelligence community investigated election interference in 2016 and came to a certain conclusion. We have information suggesting that this may have been incorrect. We therefore have a duty to get all the facts here to determine what really happened. If we do not get all the facts, how will we guard against such interference in the future.

You and I both know that this is a total lie, that Trump's obsession with 2016 stems from a politically motivated conspiracy theory meant to implicate democrats. But we're not the targets of Trump's messaging. The purpose of this kind of argument is to give the repugs in the Senate a fig leaf of cover to justify their refusal to throw Trump out of office. And also at swing voters who may have some misgivings about Trump and some concerns about his conduct here, but do not see him as clearly as do you and I.

That's why it plays as a clearer case if the quid pro quo had to do with Biden.

redundant