Not that it matters for impeachment but yeah there was a quid pro quo- per Mulvaney.

[fskimospy]

One very good point I saw mentioned is that this scandal is primarily driven by the revelations in a summary of a phone call released by the world’s biggest liars. They almost certainly selectively edited or manipulated its contents. Imagine what the actual call said.

 

[woolfe9998]

I mean he had no choice but to send his shady personal lawyer to pressure them instead of law enforcement!

Yes though, all they need is the smallest fig leaf and they will take it. It's too bad Mulvaney walked back his statement (however comically unconvincingly) as I was looking forward to all the Republicans who said 'this isn't a problem but I would feel differently if there was a quid pro quo' coming up with a new excuse to do nothing.

Yeah they still have their fig leaf for now. Wait until all these depositions are done and the transcripts released. I notice the dems come out of these depositions and they're all smiles. Then the repugs not in the depositions are saying the dems are selectively releasing only tidbits which help their case, while failing to mention that there are repugs present at the depos who are saying not a damn thing.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah they still have their fig leaf for now. Wait until all these depositions are done and the transcripts released. I notice the dems come out of these depositions and they're all smiles. Then the repugs not in the depositions are saying the dems are selectively releasing only tidbits which help their case, while failing to mention that there are repugs present at the depos who are saying not a damn thing.

Yes it is very telling that the Republican arguments are all process arguments, not arguments about the facts. That indicates to me the facts are damning.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Nixon provided them with guidance on how to do this and they still can't get it right.

 

[K1052]

I mean he had no choice but to send his shady personal lawyer to pressure them instead of law enforcement!

Yes though, all they need is the smallest fig leaf and they will take it. It's too bad Mulvaney walked back his statement (however comically unconvincingly) as I was looking forward to all the Republicans who said 'this isn't a problem but I would feel differently if there was a quid pro quo' coming up with a new excuse to do nothing.

Seems there could be a problem with many vulnerable Senate GOPs up in 20 just trying to ignore an escalating series of scandals. I mean this doesn't seem like a tenable approach for the next year plus until the election.

 

[trenchfoot]

I think this sort of thing is pretty common in conspiracies that are falling apart like this one is. Everyone is trying to save themselves and so they don't coordinate their lies well. Each time someone makes a new lie to cover their ass it usually conflicts with a lie already told so then a new lie must be made and the cycle repeats.

Yes, it does feel like the phase where "it's every man for himself" is getting under way thus leading to the "I was only following orders at the time" phase where indictments start being handed out.

 

[woolfe9998]

Seems there could be a problem with many vulnerable Senate GOPs up in 20 just trying to ignore an escalating series of scandals. I mean this doesn't seem like a tenable approach for the next year plus until the election.

View attachment 12134

You may have read the same WaPo editorial that I just read. While I think there isn't a chance in hell of flipping 20 repugs unless the facts get a lot worse for Trump, and maybe not even then, I do think it's important to get some GOP votes for removal. Because it will contradict the GOP narrative of this being a partisan witch hunt. I can see some swing voters who perhaps are low information types and do not follow the facts closely looking at this and thinking if 5 or 6 GOP Senators voted to throw Trump out, there must be something to this more than a partisan witch hunt.

 

[interchange]

The media told the truth about what he said, but may have made too much of it. He didn't mention investigation of the Bidens, and he did say that the conspiracy theory over 2016 was only part of the reason they withheld the aid. But it doesn't really matter because there is plenty of evidence of quid pro quo from the call summary itself, and plenty more from witnesses who have testified before the House committees.

While the focus generally has been investigation of Biden, calling to look into the crowdstrike conspiracy theory is also criminal abuse of power. Trump wants to discredit the Mueller probe/Russian collusion findings with no basis of fact to pursue these claims, and it is not hard to see how the motivation is for his personal gain and benefits him going into the election.

Even still, unless there is evidence somewhere where the Trump admin made explicit to Ukraine that the quid pro quo only applied to investigating crowdstrike and not Biden, the quid pro quo could only apply to both in the eyes of Ukraine.

Even still, the existence of quid pro quo at all was an unnecessary element to the underlying crime.

Their denials and misinformation is just further evidence of a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Not that we need that. Non-compliance with committee subpoenas that are lawful even without a formal impeachment inquiry without any actual legal basis for non-compliance is already an established count of obstruction.

But we already know Trump has never intended to win a legal battle here. He only hopes to politicize everything and be saved by the Senate Republicans. It caught us off guard the first time.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You may have read the same WaPo editorial that I just read. While I think there isn't a chance in hell of flipping 20 repugs unless the facts get a lot worse for Trump, and maybe not even then, I do think it's important to get some GOP votes for removal. Because it will contradict the GOP narrative of this being a partisan witch hunt. I can see some swing voters who perhaps are low information types and do not follow the facts closely looking at this and thinking if 5 or 6 GOP Senators voted to throw Trump out, there must be something to this more than a partisan witch hunt.

There are facts which I believe may push the GOP into a situation where they haven't much of a choice if they wish to exist as a force in the near future.

Impeachment inquiry now favored 54/44

In the article is this

An even higher number—58 percent—said the president had definitely or probably done things that are "grounds for impeachment."

As more acts such as Mulvaney revealed come to light that number can only go up, and it's rising rapidly. When sentiment hits 60 then 70%, perhaps higher, does Mitch stick with Donnie or destroy his party? Even the Senate can fall away from GOP control if things go far enough.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

the gaslighting of america continues. "i said and let me repeat myself there was a clear quid pro quo" (Mulvaney). You guys weren't listening and always twisted my words (mulvany +12 hours).

 

[woolfe9998]

There are facts which I believe may push the GOP into a situation where they haven't much of a choice if they wish to exist as a force in the near future.

Impeachment inquiry now favored 54/44

In the article is this

An even higher number—58 percent—said the president had definitely or probably done things that are "grounds for impeachment."

As more acts such as Mulvaney revealed come to light that number can only go up, and it's rising rapidly. When sentiment hits 60 then 70%, perhaps higher, does Mitch stick with Donnie or destroy his party? Even the Senate can fall away from GOP control if things go far enough.

I agree that if support for throwing Trump out reaches 60%+ nationally, not in a single poll but as an average across many polls, that might be the tipping point. But the problem is this increase in impeachment support seems to be coming from the low hanging fruit. Meaning they are people who didn't support Trump already but were against impeachment, many for undoubtedly the same reason that Pelosi was against it for so long: because they thought it would go nowhere due to repug opposition in the Senate and hurt the dems' chance to defeat Trump next year. But now that it's underway they've of course gotten on board.

How do we know this? Because as impeachment support has risen, Trump's approvals have gone nowhere: they're down maybe 1 point from where they were a month ago. In order to get to the necessary threshold, we're going to need to see some movement from Trump's supporters, certainly more than 1 point. I don't know what is going to make that happen, but clearly what has transpired so far has not been enough.

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree that if support for throwing Trump out reaches 60%+ nationally, not in a single poll but as an average across many polls, that might be the tipping point. But the problem is this increase in impeachment support seems to be coming from the low hanging fruit. Meaning they are people who didn't support Trump already but were against impeachment, many for undoubtedly the same reason that Pelosi was against it for so long: because they thought it would go nowhere due to repug opposition in the Senate and hurt the dems' chance to defeat Trump next year. But now that it's underway they've of course gotten on board.

How do we know this? Because as impeachment support has risen, Trump's approvals have gone nowhere: they're down maybe 1 point from where they were a month ago. In order to get to the necessary threshold, we're going to need to see some movement from Trump's supporters, certainly more than 1 point. I don't know what is going to make that happen, but clearly what has transpired so far has not been enough.

There's scant hope of the Senate removing Trump from office unless he just starts speaking in tongues all the time, when there's no way to make sense of any of it. There's no backing out of a deal with the Devil.

 

[GoPackGo]

Funny thing about that. Moscow Mitch tried to get senators to sign a pledge to acquit no matter what and the response wasn't great. As McConnell won't be leading the trial he has no say once the trial actually begins and there will be one.

Do you have a link to that?

 

[interchange]

At this point, I feel it is a certainty he will be impeached, and this will reach the Senate. That is where things have the chance to get real. If they can agree on rules that allow extended questioning of witnesses to pin down their stories without partisan grandstanding, then there is a much greater chance that folks currently against impeachment will realize the alternative arguments are a charade. Bear in mind also that chief justice Roberts presides over impeachment trials for Presidents. That is also the critical point for regular media to push back and disallow blatantly false grandstanding to get air time. They won't have the luxury of hours-long testimony to fully expose the emotionally-reasoned false narratives that poison the lay person's objectivity.

 

[thilanliyan]

Funny thing about that. Moscow Mitch tried to get senators to sign a pledge to acquit no matter what and the response wasn't great. As McConnell won't be leading the trial he has no say once the trial actually begins and there will be one.

Was it Mitch or Graham?

GOP colleague assails Lindsey Graham's sign-on letter to acquit Trump as 'dumbest' idea ever

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham is in overdrive to protect his own 2020 reelection chances even as he criticizes Donald Trump's disastrous withdrawal of troops from Syria. So Graham floated the idea of sending a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi...

www.dailykos.com

Link says it was Graham...I thought he was off the Trump train after the Syrian pullout...guess he's still fumbling in the dark to find his nads.

 

[GoPackGo]

Was it Mitch or Graham?

GOP colleague assails Lindsey Graham's sign-on letter to acquit Trump as 'dumbest' idea ever

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham is in overdrive to protect his own 2020 reelection chances even as he criticizes Donald Trump's disastrous withdrawal of troops from Syria. So Graham floated the idea of sending a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi...

www.dailykos.com

Link says it was Graham...I thought he was off the Trump train after the Syrian pullout...guess he's still fumbling in the dark to find his nads.

Thanks for finding that.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So let me get this correct....
If I make a statement that I did something wrong and then later I retract that statement, (I cannot be prosecuted??? hmmm

 

[Jhhnn]

Was it Mitch or Graham?

GOP colleague assails Lindsey Graham's sign-on letter to acquit Trump as 'dumbest' idea ever

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham is in overdrive to protect his own 2020 reelection chances even as he criticizes Donald Trump's disastrous withdrawal of troops from Syria. So Graham floated the idea of sending a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi...

www.dailykos.com

Link says it was Graham...I thought he was off the Trump train after the Syrian pullout...guess he's still fumbling in the dark to find his nads.

That's because Trump already has Lindsay's cojones in the palm of his hand. It's the same for the lot of them. They let themselves be taken hostage & are now at Trump's mercy. Their base went nuts for Trump, thanks to decades of their own disinformation, fear mongering & lies.

 

[m8d]

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is the most expensive mental institution in the United States ...

 

[JEDIYoda]

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is the most expensive mental institution in the United States ...

nd its not even staffed by people who can help the president....everyone has a mental issue

 

[MomentsofSanity]

deleted. not sure if real.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Do you have a link to that?

Here's what I found just now on an MSNBC report

Two weeks ago, as the impeachment inquiry in the House was getting underway, Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said she wanted to be cautious about taking firm stances on the presidential scandal because she was likely to be “a juror” deciding his political fate. The Maine Republican added that she didn’t want to say anything that would suggest she’s “prejudging” the accused.

That is what's left of the story which is a PIA as the link goes to the WaPo and not the story itself.

Anyway, it is what it is.

Edit- Helpful correction kindly given. Graham not Mitch.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Was it Mitch or Graham?

GOP colleague assails Lindsey Graham's sign-on letter to acquit Trump as 'dumbest' idea ever

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham is in overdrive to protect his own 2020 reelection chances even as he criticizes Donald Trump's disastrous withdrawal of troops from Syria. So Graham floated the idea of sending a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi...

www.dailykos.com

Link says it was Graham...I thought he was off the Trump train after the Syrian pullout...guess he's still fumbling in the dark to find his nads.

Bingo, that's it. Graham not Mitch.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Bingo, that's it. Graham not Mitch.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!