Now I know why old people work for Walmart. Social Security.

[Jumpem]

45% of Americans pay no federal income taxes...I guess somebody has to work to subsidize them.

I do think that everyone should have some skin in the game. I would be happy with a 10% minimum effective tax rate.

 

[feralkid]

unless they have health insurance

Only for a while; there are limits...eventually your personal finances will be drained.

 

[Engineer]

$1k/month would be a comfortable retirement if the government didn't steal it back in property taxes.

edit:
I suppose renting would be an issue though.

Some states have exemptions for older people and property taxes. Don't know the details here in KY but I know that there is an amount that you can exempt to lower (or remove) your property taxes.

 

[Engineer]

unless they have health insurance

Try paying those premiums while laid up in the hospital for months. Better hope that someone steps in to pay them for you if you can't afford them or are unable to pay them.

 

[Leyawiin]

My dad retired at 58. He was a crane operator on big government construction projects. He was really good at it and made a lot of money - more than most professionals. Still, he told me that he noticed his reaction times and ability to concentrate was slipping the last few years he worked. He was afraid if he tried to continue until he was 62 he might have an accident (which he never had in 30+ years of doing that work). He said he didn't think he could make it to 65 for full SS. Fortunately he and my mom had been saving and investing for years (and living really modestly) so he was able to retire four years before SS kicked in. His pension allowed for retiring early at a reduced amount. Basically, some people just aren't physically or mentally able to continue working until full retirement age at their current profession (even if they want to).

 

[child of wonder]

We Americans simply don't pay enough in taxes. There isn't enough revenue to support current spending, and certainly not enough to enhance social programs or pay down the debt.

After 401k (silly me, I should rely on Uncle Sam for my retirement) and health insurance premiums, 27% of my taxable income was withheld for federal, state, SS, and Medicare taxes.

But I STILL need to pay more not only to support current, ridiculous spending levels but to also enhance social programs and pay down the debt? Where does all this money come from?

What percentage of my taxable income would be sufficient in your eyes? 30%? 35%? 40%? I'm not rich but make a nice chunk of money. What's my "fair share?"

 

[ImpulsE69]

The depressing thing about all of this (much like paying for any kind of insurance) is that regardless of your plans or how you live, you may never actually live to see it anyway (nor your family). What percentage of people never even make it to retirement age? All that money that was paid in to, SS, 401k's etc. You never hear them talk about that. Where did THAT money go?

 

[ImpulsE69]

We Americans simply don't pay enough in taxes. There isn't enough revenue to support current spending, and certainly not enough to enhance social programs or pay down the debt.

We pay TOO much in taxes. No amount of taxing of the people will ever be enough. WE don't do the spending, and it doesn't matter who WE vote for, they make decisions to spend money on many things most of us don't even care about. Not to mention the behind the door deals and money changing that happens that we aren't even told about. The government wastes money left and right and would only waste more if given more. What we ARE guilty of however is wanting the government involved in every little thing any more.

 

[OutHouse]

As I understand it, you have a choice when you sign up for SS. You can either:

1. Get 100% of your benefits while alive; then give your spouse nothing when you die.
2. Get (at a guess) ~90% of your benefits while alive; then give your spouse 50% of those benefits when you die.
3. Get (at a guess) ~80% of your benefits while alive; then give your spouse 100% of those benefits when you die.

My parents opted for #3.

ummmm no.

 

[Engineer]

We pay TOO much in taxes. No amount of taxing of the people will ever be enough. WE don't do the spending, and it doesn't matter who WE vote for, they make decisions to spend money on many things most of us don't even care about. Not to mention the behind the door deals and money changing that happens that we aren't even told about. The government wastes money left and right and would only waste more if given more. What we ARE guilty of however is wanting the government involved in every little thing any more.

It's interesting to see whose tax rates have gone down and whose have not over time in the US.

Middle class now pays more in tax rates while bottom and top tiers pay far less.

By the way, where does wasted government money go? Does it go in the trash can or does it go into the economy (same question I asked my mother in law and she refused to answer other than it's simply wasted)?

As for government spending, take out SS / Medicare / Defense and there's not much left after that. Which of those big ones would you like to cut?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

We Americans simply don't pay enough in taxes. There isn't enough revenue to support current spending, and certainly not enough to enhance social programs or pay down the debt.

LOL

I love how the obvious and correct answer eludes so many people - how about we cut spending?

 

[Jumpem]

After 401k (silly me, I should rely on Uncle Sam for my retirement) and health insurance premiums, 27% of my taxable income was withheld for federal, state, SS, and Medicare taxes.

But I STILL need to pay more not only to support current, ridiculous spending levels but to also enhance social programs and pay down the debt? Where does all this money come from?

What percentage of my taxable income would be sufficient in your eyes? 30%? 35%? 40%? I'm not rich but make a nice chunk of money. What's my "fair share?"

My preference would be around:
The bottom: 10% minimum. The effective rate paid cannot go below this regardless of deductions or credits.
The middle stays the same.
The upper: 40% above $250k household income.
The wealthy: 60% above $500k, 80% above $1m, 90% above 2m.

 

[Jumpem]

We pay TOO much in taxes. No amount of taxing of the people will ever be enough. WE don't do the spending, and it doesn't matter who WE vote for, they make decisions to spend money on many things most of us don't even care about. Not to mention the behind the door deals and money changing that happens that we aren't even told about. The government wastes money left and right and would only waste more if given more. What we ARE guilty of however is wanting the government involved in every little thing any more.

Look at income tax rates in Canada, Europe, and Japan. In comparison to most of the rest of the developed world we pay less.

 

[Jumpem]

LOL

I love how the obvious and correct answer eludes so many people - how about we cut spending?

From where?

The military is getting pinched already. SS and Medicare/Medicaid are untouchable. The remaining budget areas are small in comparison to those.

 

[Engineer]

LOL

I love how the obvious and correct answer eludes so many people - how about we cut spending?

As I pointed out, government spending / tax cuts have taken the place of growing wages in moving the economy. Also, outside SS / Medicare / Defense, what are we going to cut? Infrastructure in the US is a mess, needing trillions of dollars to repair. Try cutting defense? LOL....conservatives, who say that they love to cut spending, cry foul if you don't INCREASE spending on defense, much less cutting it. Dems cry foul on anything short of raising SS / Medicare payments.

Still all boils down to good jobs for EVERYONE (not just those that can and do go to college). Fix the jobs situation and you fix the tax situation. Pretty simple except for the details of fixing the job situation.

 

[Jumpem]

It's interesting to see whose tax rates have gone done and whose has not over time in the US.

Middle class now pays more in tax rates while bottom and top tiers pay far less.

By the way, where does wasted government money go? Does it go in the trash can or does it go into the economy (same question I asked my mother in law and she refused to answer other than it's simply wasted)?

As for government spending, take out SS / Medicare / Defense and there's not much left after that. Which of those big ones would you like to cut?

Good post.

 

[Imp]

If you're wondering, in Canada, there's one tax bracket for $44k to $90k, $90k to $140k, then 140k+. States/provinces have their own brackets that are somewhat comparable.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

We get government healthcare, but get to save on military spending as the hat to the head down south.

P.S. Looks like U.S. tax rates are lower, but after factoring in health insurance, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[disappoint]

Anyone that relies on SS for their sole retirement income is as big of fool as you are.

-KeithP

Translation: Anyone that relies on the government to do the right thing and take care of it's citizens instead of take bribes from the sociopaths to protect their own interests is a fool.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

From where?

The military is getting pinched already. SS and Medicare/Medicaid are untouchable. The remaining budget areas are small in comparison to those.

If you seriously think there aren't huge areas of spending to be cut in the federal government, you're delusional. The military alone can have substantial cuts in many programs, contrary to your assertions. The federal government has grown and grown and grown and has far exceeded its constitutional mandate.

Raising my social security taxes by removing the cap without increasing my benefits (or letting me receive benefits earlier), means testing, etc. is breaking a promise that the government made to me. I don't care if I make $30K per year or $200K per year - the money withheld for social security is MINE and has been promised to me. If an otherwise able-bodied person can't save for retirement, that is his/her problem, not mine. Perhaps instead of stealing more money from those of us who aren't rich but make good livings, the government can study the current environment which has largely eliminated defined-benefit retirement plans, allowed outsourcing with impunity, etc, and look for the true culprit for these issues, which it can find by looking straight into a mirror.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

As I pointed out, government spending / tax cuts have taken the place of growing wages in moving the economy. Also, outside SS / Medicare / Defense, what are we going to cut? Infrastructure in the US is a mess, needing trillions of dollars to repair. Try cutting defense? LOL....conservatives, who say that they love to cut spending, cry foul if you don't INCREASE spending on defense, much less cutting it. Dems cry foul on anything short of raising SS / Medicare payments.

Spending cuts in every area are necessary, including the military, until the government actually does what we pay it to do - that is, defend American interests and by "American interests," I'm not talking about only the interests of the 1% as seems to happen today. At the root of all of this (and to cut to the chase) is what our wonderful politicians have done to this country in terms of "free trade" agreements. I always laugh when people scream about our politicians being corrupt, our government serving only special interests, etc, and then turn around and tout more government intervention (via more taxes) as the solution.

Still all boils down to good jobs for EVERYONE (not just those that can and do go to college). Fix the jobs situation and you fix the tax situation. Pretty simple except for the details of fixing the job situation.

Exactly - see my post above. There is one entity at fault for the current job situation, and it is the government. You can scream "conservatives" until you're blue, yellow, and purple in the face, but who signed NAFTA into law and who pushed TPP? Yeah, exactly.

 

[Engineer]

the government can study the current environment which has largely eliminated defined-benefit retirement plans, allowed outsourcing with impunity, etc, and look for the true culprit for these issues, which it can find by looking straight into a mirror.

LOL....study? Hell, the government is now allowing the holders of defined benefits plans to cut current retirees on those plans. Was told by my neighbor that 10,000 UPS workers on retirement will have their retirement cut because they are on an older plan that is allowed to cut. This coming from a company that made how many billions of dollars in profit last year?

Big company with wealthy donors and don't want to honor your obligations promised? No problem...uncle senator will fix it all up for you honey boo boo! :thumbsdown:

 

[Engineer]

Exactly - see my post above. There is one entity at fault for the current job situation, and it is the government. You can scream "conservatives" until you're blue, yellow, and purple in the face, but who signed NAFTA into law and who pushed TPP? Yeah, exactly.

I know exactly who is for so called FREE trade...both sides. Reagan dreamed up NAFTA, Bush I pushed it through (and was kicked out before finishing) and dumbass Clinton signed it. Obama is pushing for fast track 'so called' free trade. Free trade sends our jobs overseas for their cheap shit. I hope you didn't mean the scream "conservatives" toward me as I know full and well that ALL side screw the US population in favor of big business, especially when it comes to shitty trade. Ross Perot still hears the giant sucking sound.

More true words have ever been spoken in American politics...


https://youtu.be/Rkgx1C_S6ls?t=16

30 years ago, GM employed the largest number of people in the US, 500,000, making cars IN the US. Today, Walmart, who has helped push jobs out of the country, now is the largest employer in the US at 1,400,000 selling cheap stuff made in China and other countries. Ironically, Walmart started as a "Made in the USA" store. Sam Walton is rolling over in his grave.

 

[Jumpem]

If you seriously think there aren't huge areas of spending to be cut in the federal government, you're delusional. The military alone can have substantial cuts in many programs, contrary to your assertions. The federal government has grown and grown and grown and has far exceeded its constitutional mandate.

Raising my social security taxes by removing the cap without increasing my benefits (or letting me receive benefits earlier), means testing, etc. is breaking a promise that the government made to me. I don't care if I make $30K per year or $200K per year - the money withheld for social security is MINE and has been promised to me. If an otherwise able-bodied person can't save for retirement, that is his/her problem, not mine. Perhaps instead of stealing more money from those of us who aren't rich but make good livings, the government can study the current environment which has largely eliminated defined-benefit retirement plans, allowed outsourcing with impunity, etc, and look for the true culprit for these issues, which it can find by looking straight into a mirror.

The military is already being damaged by sequestration which is more of a cut to increases than an actual cut.

What you pay into SS is not yours. It goes to support the current retirees and people that are disabled. The disabled will likely get more than they ever paid in. Others contributing to SS pick up the cost. Our children and the rest of the next generation will be paying for us.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I know exactly who is for so called FREE trade...both sides. Reagan dreamed up NAFTA, Bush I pushed it through (and was kicked out before finishing) and dumbass Clinton signed it. Obama is pushing for fast track 'so called' free trade. Free trade sends our jobs overseas for their cheap shit. I hope you didn't mean the scream "conservatives" toward me as I know full and well that ALL side screw the US population in favor of big business, especially when it comes to shitty trade. Ross Perot still hears the giant sucking sound.

More true words have ever been spoken in American politics...


https://youtu.be/Rkgx1C_S6ls?t=16

None of that conservative/liberal/dems/republicans means jack any more. We are well beyond that and until the US people realize that we will continue to be divided and argue about petty little things such as this. The fact is the government needs an overhaul, no matter which way you lean. Social security is a joke and shouldn't even be taken out of peoples checks anymore because it is basically just another tax those of us 20-40 years out from retirement will never see a dime back on. The 1% in your graph are paying far less taxes now, while making more hand over fist than they were making in the 60's, however I am not one to say any one particular person should pay more taxes than someone else just because they make more money. While taxes may have remained more or less the same for middle class, everything else has increased. On the surface I would support a flat tax -- but again, that still hurts the lower/middle more than the upper. There isn't an easy solution when you are talking about taking money out of peoples hands that they earned.

Like you said, it sounds like you both realize who the bad guy here is.

As for how many taxes are taken out - I suppose that is always debatable because everyone's idea of 'needed spending' will vary based on their views of what is important, but I still think we can all agree the government spends too much money on useless things. The military alone is proof of that when you look at the price of individual items. The money certainly isn't going to their troops.

 

[Engineer]

None of that conservative/liberal/dems/republicans means jack any more. We are well beyond that, and until the US people realize that we will continue to be divided and argue about petty little things such as this. The fact is the government needs an overhaul, no matter which way you lean. Social security is a joke and shouldn't even be taken out of peoples checks anymore because it is basically just another tax those of us 20-40 years out of retirement will never see.

You'll see SS. I said the same thing 25 years ago (and was flamed like hell then just as people are now for saying it). Rinse and repeats every generation.