Now I know why old people work for Walmart. Social Security.

[s0me0nesmind1]

no. i said middle class not high paying poor.

those asking for $15 for mcdonalds are just going be eventually replaced by machines.

I'm talking about those working real jobs making 30k or so. around here many people work a lot of hours and barely make 30k.

Their jobs might be gone but the people certainly won't. The problem doesn't go away, and they will still elect corrupt politicians that promise another paycheck in the mail for them at the cost of taxpayers.... Which as you know, is diminishing further and further every year.

Eventually you run out of other peoples money.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Growing up in early 60's anyone who wanted a job just had to go to Ford (or GM or Chrysler) and could be working next shift. If you were "sketchy" you could work in a satellite shop for 15% less and most shenanigans were welcome.

Now the building of goods takes place out of country. College doesn't guarantee anything other than a ever increasing bill. People want to call people lazy when the truth is we are no longer providing a way into middle class.

 

[MongGrel]

The US is all ready pretty much a socialism as far as a middle class.

It used to be manufacturing, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of middle class wages are paid these days to law enforcement/fire departments/public school teachers and various services that are tax funded/socialist and still unionized.

Anyone thinks otherwise has not walked out of their front door in a very long time.

They have all ready killed the manufacturing unions to a large degree, just wait and see what the country looks like when those other unions are taken down.

Is attrition at work long run unless the whole miracle global utopia happens.

Somehow I do not see that in the near future.

Star Trek has been shit on long ago.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Inyet they have no one to blame but themselves. Demanding middle-class wages for taking orders at McDonalds. Are you fucking kidding me? People of past generations said, "I'll start at McDonalds and work my way up". Now people say "I'm content doing the same thing forever, but I want to be paid like I'm working hard".

I agree, but to be fair, those folks had many other options which paid $15+/hr (or the equivalent adjusted for inflation) back 30+ years ago. So many of our good middle class jobs were outsourced that people are scrambling to make ends meet.

Yeah, I think $15/hr to work at McDonalds is insane, but if they get it, more power to them. Not everyone is capable of going to college and many just aren't interested - what do we do with those folks? Forcing them into huge amounts of debt for questionable degree options in the name of "MOAR EDUCATION!" isn't the answer. Only the bankers get rich in that scheme.

 

[Fritzo]

This is exactly why retirement funding is SO incredibly important. You should be contributing 10% to your 401K at the age of 25 to make sure you don't have to live like that. Especially if your employer does any kind of matching.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

This is exactly why retirement funding is SO incredibly important. You should be contributing 10% to your 401K at the age of 25 to make sure you don't have to live like that. Especially if your employer does any kind of matching.

A few years ago, I read something startling - I don't remember the exact percentage, but some huge percentage of people in their 40s/50s only had $10K saved for retirement.

Of course, with the way wages have gone, 10% is A LOT to ask of some people. If you're only making $25K, 10% is a huge amount of money to you.

 

[Fritzo]

A few years ago, I read something startling - I don't remember the exact percentage, but some huge percentage of people in their 40s/50s only had $10K saved for retirement.

Of course, with the way wages have gone, 10% is A LOT to ask of some people. If you're only making $25K, 10% is a huge amount of money to you.

You have to adjust. 10% of $25000 is only $2500, so if you get paid twice a week, that's only $96. Since the money is pre-tax, it's actually only like $75 or so being deducted from your check. If your employer gives you 50%, that's an extra tax-free $48 on top of that.

If you do that from the time you're 25, you could easily retire with well over $500,000 in the bank, and it's not that far of a stretch to achieve.

 

[MongGrel]

A lot of people cannot afford to put a penny into a 401K these days if they can even get a job that offers one to begin with is a large part of the problem.

I'm not talking about myself, all ready have a reasonable amount of cash saved up here that I'm not using, of course I doubt I'm going to live that long and the wife will inherit it.

Most young people can not save 10% in reality of earnings these days, as many just going to school rack the loans up.

Go go capitalism, investing in overseas while raping the homeland

 

[Engineer]

You have to adjust. 10% of $25000 is only $2500, so if you get paid twice a week, that's only $96. Since the money is pre-tax, it's actually only like $75 or so being deducted from your check. If your employer gives you 50%, that's an extra tax-free $48 on top of that.

If you do that from the time you're 25, you could easily retire with well over $500,000 in the bank, and it's not that far of a stretch to achieve.

If you're making $25,000, pre-tax doesn't mean much.

 

[kranky]

A big issue is that when SS began, and you got benefits at age 65, the average 65-year-old had a life expectancy of 5 more years. Now it's 20 more years. People are drawing benefits for a long time. What if they keep lengthening lifespans?

The scenario in the OP is particularly relevant to me as it's the exact situation my father is in. My mother died, therefore her SS check stopped. His expenses did not go down by $800 a month, but the income sure did. He worked decades for a big company who froze their pension plan 6 years before he retired, which kept his pension check from being 40% larger due to the formulas used.

He did nothing wrong, did not live extravagantly in any way (one vacation in 30 years), but he simply cannot continue to live on his own on one SS check and a small pension.

What I learned from his situation is that a "good middle class wage" and its associated SS benefits cannot stand up to decades of even low inflation. His pension is not COLA, SS increases do not keep up with actual cost-of-living for retirees. They were doing fine when he first retired - both SS checks and the pension allowed some little luxuries like eating dinner out on Sundays. Yet even before my mother passed, they were struggling a little, the dinner out on Sundays had long been stopped. Decades of retirement really take a toll.

 

[Fritzo]

A lot of people cannot afford to put a penny into a 401K these days if they can even get a job that offers one to begin with is a large part of the problem.

I'm not talking about myself, all ready have a reasonable amount of cash saved up here that I'm not using, of course I doubt I'm going to live that long and the wife will inherit it.

Most young people can not save 10% in reality of earnings these days, as many just going to school rack the loans up.

Go go capitalism, investing in overseas while raping the homeland

The fact is anyone CAN afford to put 10% away, but people in that age group tend to think luxuries are necessities. The big ones I see all the time are forking over for 50Mbs Internet when you can get 10Mbs for 1/2 the price, pizza 4 days a week, bar bills, and smartphones.

 

[Imp]

A few years ago, I read something startling - I don't remember the exact percentage, but some huge percentage of people in their 40s/50s only had $10K saved for retirement.

AUTO-PLAY VIDEO in link below:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/06/nearly-half-of-americans-have-no-savings-survey.html

The rate comparison website surveyed 5,000 people and found just 29 percent of them had $1,000 or more in savings account.

Source is questionable in the story above but I doubt it's too far off. Maybe they have their money in checking or investment accounts...

The fact is anyone CAN afford to put 10% away, but people in that age group tend to think luxuries are necessities. The big ones I see all the time are forking over for 50Mbs Internet when you can get 10Mbs for 1/2 the price, pizza 4 days a week, bar bills, and smartphones.

Smartphones are probably the big one. $500 for an iPhone or Galaxy? Or contract for $50+/month with dataplan? And some people swap phones every year or two.

 

[Engineer]

AUTO-PLAY VIDEO in link below:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/06/nearly-half-of-americans-have-no-savings-survey.html



Source is questionable in the story above but I doubt it's too far off. Maybe they have their money in checking or investment accounts...



Smartphones are probably the big one. $500 for an iPhone or Galaxy? Or contract for $50+/month with dataplan? And some people swap phones every year or two.

P.S. Pet peeve regarding "big screen TVs" as wasteful spending. You can get a 40" LED LCD for $400 now and they should last a while. A 32" is in the $250 range now? My 40" CFL LCD is pushing 6 years old, was $900 on sale, and still working. I mean, it is a luxury and wasteful, but not as much as it used to be.

Samsun $300 40":
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN40H5003-40-Inch-1080p-Model/dp/B00MYBR75O

I bought a 32" for $79 with free shipping last year. Might not last long but has been fine for over a year.

As for phones and lines, I agree that they are too high and people spend too much money on them. Of course, many people used to have land lines that were high too and have now replaced them with cellular (I did).

Regardless, several hit the nail on the head in thread thread....good paying middle class jobs that don't require a college degree have been offshored. Credit is used to take the place of the ages....at least until it runs out (then, it's bailout time - just like 2008-2010).